Berg death gets more odd (9/11 connection)

[EXman]

Originally posted by: heresiarh
Man, whatever it was... the way he died was uncalled for. I am a muslim and I completely condemn his killing. Those suckers who sawed his head off bring disgrace to the name of allah and islam. I hope they get caught and brought to justice. I can only imagine what his family must be feeling.

They blame it all on Bush even though it was their meddling with lawyers that released him back into Iraq. Bush has so little to do with his death it is laughable. But now that the media has found his AL Quada ties his Dad is backpeddling. Shame on him for using his son's death to smear someone who had nothing to do with it.

The more that is coming out the it looks like this kid had no reason to be there at all he didn't even have a contract so he was not a Civilian Contractor he was a Civilian looking for work. Chasing an American Dream or maybe some other more insidious reason.

 

[Bulk Beef]

You people are insane.

 

[ajf3]

WHY WOULD HE HAVE AN ORANGE JUMP SUIT? Terrorist do not normal change the clothing of there detainees.
I mean WHY WOULD THEY DRESS A PRISONER IN THE SAME COLORS AS THE US DETAINEES IN GITMO.
You know what I question that very much so as well.
Im no expert on this but that does not seem right at all.

If it were the CIA, why wouldn't they change him from the jumpsuit into normal clothes? Maybe it was someone wanting you to think it was the CIA? or maybe it was the CIA wanting you to think it was someone wanthing you to think it was the CIA?

Deep thoughts...

 

[preslove]

Another issue is the apparent lack of blood. I haven't seen the actual video, but i have heard there really wasn't any blood, which is kinda impossible when you are severing pumping arteries and veins. I don't know, i kinda want to see the video for myself, but I also really don't because of the content...

 

[chrisms]

The jumpsuit was likely used for symbolic purposes.

 

[katka]

hehe, so we are the enemy before all others?

I wonder who the true enemy is here...

Yes, if you know how the CIA, Military, Government REALLY works then it would be obvious to you. This is NOT just exclusive to the US but exists in other govenments as well. Most just keep it local but a few as with Hitler and the recent "Democracy for All" movement are extreme examples.

The object is to fuel the fears and concerns of the public at large in an effort to drum up support for whatever the political and financial game is at the time. I have NOT seen things being implemented so textbookish since Hitlers campaign against the Jews. He feed his people lie, after lie, after lie while making them promise, after promise, after promise. The lies and false accusations fed their fears and they united against the Jews depite the fact that MOST of them knew what they were doing was wrong and that they were acting on lies. If is a form of Mass Hysteria.

The solidiers aren't to be blame per se, as most ARE just doing what the were sent to do. But you DO have people who go to the military because they are murders!!!!!!!!!!!. This is why you take the test to get in and why everyone doesn't get the job of murder. First, you separate those who will follow blindly no mattter what and those who won't. You give the follow blindly people jobs in infantry. Then it get separated into who will kill for self defense and who will kill because they are just sick in the head. The sick in the headers become Special Forces and Cops in the real world. They get a license to kill like serial killers and not have to go to jail for it. Chopping of a head is kids play to people like that. Obviously, those involved are sworn to secrecy and the "TRUTH" is never disclosed. In addition, they get treated as heros and not as the murders that they really are.

Research Hitler and his deeds and you SHOULD see striking parallels of these types of wheels in motion. The thing that has made feel angst for the families of all involved is that the recent "Democracy for All" has been motivated TOTALLY by MONEY! Yes, Hitler used promises to get jobs and make money and stole a lot ot the Jews money but I am not sure that it was his ONLY MOTIVATION.

There should NOT be "Democracy for All". No country including the US should be allow to take over militarily weaker countries and put governments and people into office. The goal of FREEDOM is to have the right to have the type of government that a country wants. It ticks me off to see a dumb soldier on tv talking about how he is fighting for freedom. If he had read just one Revolutionary War story he would have realized that America has had its freedom since 1776 by rising up against England. And that recent laws have robbed HIM of some of HIS freedom. Not terrorists. If the Iraqis wanted a different type of government they could have done it . There are enough of them. When the French no longer wanted an Aristrocracy off went their head. And the French don't have battle stick-it-ness. People can and do rise up Government and many find simple favorable countries that have less corrupt government.

 

[Gravity]

Why did the guy have a beard but no mustache? So much is foggy about this incident. Makes me uncomfortable. I have the video but couldn't watch it to completion. I got to the point where the guy starts to saw at the bloke's neck and had to stop.

ick!

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Hafen

That's really F'd up. Who would want to get their head cut off, especially for the whole world and family to see? It also says services are being held a synagogue, so he's Jewish, and had a Isreali stamp on his passport, so maybe he's working for the Isreali's? Perhaps a triple agent, working for US vs Al Quesadia, but really for Isreali's. Perhaps they really killed him to make the US mad and strengthen our resolve?

Well, who would want to blow themselves up just to take out a busload of innocent women and children?

Again, I don't want to assume too much - I still think the likeliest explanation is that Berg was innocent and killed by terrorists - but I don't find it completely unbelievable that he might have been brainwashed into agreeing to be killed in support of an al Queda propaganda agenda. He certainly seemed relatively relaxed considering the circumstances (although he might have just been in shock - it sounds like he was beaten before being beheaded).

Or perhaps its just a weird world and people should stop reading so many Clancy novels.

Agreed. This case seems to be a vortex for the bizarre, though, and it seems pretty clear we are not being given completely accurate info (particularly in regard to who had custody of Berg when he was initially detained, which nobody seems willing to admit to), so it lends itself to paranoid conspiracy theories. I find it fascinating in any case.

 

[SmokeRngs]

Originally posted by: chrisms
The jumpsuit was likely used for symbolic purposes.

This is probably the most likely reason. If I remember correctly, this execution was supposed to be in retaliation for what went on with the Iraqi prisoners. Which in this case, the orage jumpsuit is a symbol for the prisoners.

 

[tallest1]

In a bizarre twist, al-Jazeera is questioning the 'authenticity' of the video

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: tallest1
In a bizarre twist, al-Jazeera is questioning the 'authenticity' of the video

It's hard not to question it to some degree, given the overall weirdness that surrounded the (apparently) late Mr. Berg and his death.

That said, I tend to think they are questioning its authenticity because the conspiracy theory that he was murdered by the CIA is apparently gaining favor in the middle east (just as the theory that 9/11 was an American-Israeli conspiracy is still au courant among many of these same folks).

Absent some pretty damn persuasive evidence, I am still of the opinion that this death was just what it appeared to be, but it's hard to have total confidence in any theory at this point because of all the truly bizarre facets of the case.

 

[MegaWorks]

this is really one big mystery, no one really knows who's behind his tape. We have to ask who will be benefiting form this tape? And the funny thing it came out after Abu Greib prison photos?

they claim that they killed Berg for the Iraqi prisoners rights? so why does al-quada kill Iraqi civilians?

 

[tallest1]

But wasn't Berg's body found a month ago? Doesn't that mean this tape was recorded even before the prisoner abuse went public?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: tallest1
But wasn't Berg's body found a month ago? Doesn't that mean this tape was recorded even before the prisoner abuse went public?

No, his body was apparently found last weekend, on or about 8 May. What weirds me out (well, one of the things) is that the killers say on the tape that it is 11 May, the day the video went live on the Internet.

 

[CaptnKirk]

The body was found in Iraq last Saturday - which would have been our Friday -
there's an 10 - 13 hour time difference between Iraq and the east (10) and west (13) coasts.

 

[jjones]

Don_Vito, here's another possible scenario for you, similar to yours but differing slightly in the motivation for the video.

Berg is somewhat of a mixed up sympathizer who has developed some al queda contacts. This odd thing happens about the password but he's eventually discarded as suspect in any wrongdoing. Time goes by and he's doing whatever; the Iraq war happens and he reinvolves himself directly and goes off to Iraq ostensibly to search for work. Possibly he hopes to get into a position within the coalition rebuilding effort with the plan in mind to offer his al queda contacts useful information.

His adventure in Iraq is pretty much a bust, unable to get any work at all, and then he gets picked up by the authorities and is detained for questioning for several days. He decides to give it up and go home and then after his release, he gets in touch with his al queda buddies to tell them he's leaving. His buddies are pretty much disgusted with him because he hasn't proven to be of any value whatsoever, so they concoct a plan and dupe Berg into believing they want to fake a video of him being hostage. Berg goes along with it but instead of faking a video of a hostage, they kill him.

This is just a flight of fancy, as you say, that comes to mind given the unusual coincidence of his prior contact with al queda. I honestly think that he is just an innocent civilian that got caught up by the bad guys at the wrong place and the wrong time.

 

[onelove]

if the CIA secretly engineered half of the feats they are credited with, it would easily be the most effective aspect of our government.

So hard to understand how adults can buy into this. the power of hate, dearth of education, with the zest of religion.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: tallest1
In a bizarre twist, al-Jazeera is questioning the 'authenticity' of the video

That isn't bizarre, that's typical. The arab world is fascinated by "face-saving" consipiracy. It's the best thing to keep it from being honest with itself. Hence the 9/11 - mossad conspiracy that is so popular.

 

[Gravity]

Nicely stated. I'll buy it!

Originally posted by: jjones
Don_Vito, here's another possible scenario for you, similar to yours but differing slightly in the motivation for the video.

Berg is somewhat of a mixed up sympathizer who has developed some al queda contacts. This odd thing happens about the password but he's eventually discarded as suspect in any wrongdoing. Time goes by and he's doing whatever; the Iraq war happens and he reinvolves himself directly and goes off to Iraq ostensibly to search for work. Possibly he hopes to get into a position within the coalition rebuilding effort with the plan in mind to offer his al queda contacts useful information.

His adventure in Iraq is pretty much a bust, unable to get any work at all, and then he gets picked up by the authorities and is detained for questioning for several days. He decides to give it up and go home and then after his release, he gets in touch with his al queda buddies to tell them he's leaving. His buddies are pretty much disgusted with him because he hasn't proven to be of any value whatsoever, so they concoct a plan and dupe Berg into believing they want to fake a video of him being hostage. Berg goes along with it but instead of faking a video of a hostage, they kill him.

This is just a flight of fancy, as you say, that comes to mind given the unusual coincidence of his prior contact with al queda. I honestly think that he is just an innocent civilian that got caught up by the bad guys at the wrong place and the wrong time.

 

[katka]

Don_Vito, here's another possible scenario for you, similar to yours but differing slightly in the motivation for the video.

Berg is somewhat of a mixed up sympathizer who has developed some al queda contacts. This odd thing happens about the password but he's eventually discarded as suspect in any wrongdoing. Time goes by and he's doing whatever; the Iraq war happens and he reinvolves himself directly and goes off to Iraq ostensibly to search for work. Possibly he hopes to get into a position within the coalition rebuilding effort with the plan in mind to offer his al queda contacts useful information.

His adventure in Iraq is pretty much a bust, unable to get any work at all, and then he gets picked up by the authorities and is detained for questioning for several days. He decides to give it up and go home and then after his release, he gets in touch with his al queda buddies to tell them he's leaving. His buddies are pretty much disgusted with him because he hasn't proven to be of any value whatsoever, so they concoct a plan and dupe Berg into believing they want to fake a video of him being hostage. Berg goes along with it but instead of faking a video of a hostage, they kill him.

This is just a flight of fancy, as you say, that comes to mind given the unusual coincidence of his prior contact with al queda. I honestly think that he is just an innocent civilian that got caught up by the bad guys at the wrong place and the wrong time.

These are people of ACTION. When have the ever faked anything to scare the government? Theirs or ours? They sit back, plot and execute. Afraid NOT

 

[sygyzy]

It seems like, to some of you, it's totally unfathomable that the possiblity he was a CIA agent, double agent, or there is any conspiracy here is even exists. I haven't made any conclusions but I gotta admit this is all very fishy.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: katka

hehe, so we are the enemy before all others?

I wonder who the true enemy is here...

Yes, if you know how the CIA, Military, Government REALLY works then it would be obvious to you. This is NOT just exclusive to the US but exists in other govenments as well. Most just keep it local but a few as with Hitler and the recent "Democracy for All" movement are extreme examples.

The object is to fuel the fears and concerns of the public at large in an effort to drum up support for whatever the political and financial game is at the time. I have NOT seen things being implemented so textbookish since Hitlers campaign against the Jews. He feed his people lie, after lie, after lie while making them promise, after promise, after promise. The lies and false accusations fed their fears and they united against the Jews depite the fact that MOST of them knew what they were doing was wrong and that they were acting on lies. If is a form of Mass Hysteria.

The solidiers aren't to be blame per se, as most ARE just doing what the were sent to do. But you DO have people who go to the military because they are murders!!!!!!!!!!!. This is why you take the test to get in and why everyone doesn't get the job of murder. First, you separate those who will follow blindly no mattter what and those who won't. You give the follow blindly people jobs in infantry. Then it get separated into who will kill for self defense and who will kill because they are just sick in the head. The sick in the headers become Special Forces and Cops in the real world. They get a license to kill like serial killers and not have to go to jail for it. Chopping of a head is kids play to people like that. Obviously, those involved are sworn to secrecy and the "TRUTH" is never disclosed. In addition, they get treated as heros and not as the murders that they really are.

Research Hitler and his deeds and you SHOULD see striking parallels of these types of wheels in motion. The thing that has made feel angst for the families of all involved is that the recent "Democracy for All" has been motivated TOTALLY by MONEY! Yes, Hitler used promises to get jobs and make money and stole a lot ot the Jews money but I am not sure that it was his ONLY MOTIVATION.

There should NOT be "Democracy for All". No country including the US should be allow to take over militarily weaker countries and put governments and people into office. The goal of FREEDOM is to have the right to have the type of government that a country wants. It ticks me off to see a dumb soldier on tv talking about how he is fighting for freedom. If he had read just one Revolutionary War story he would have realized that America has had its freedom since 1776 by rising up against England. And that recent laws have robbed HIM of some of HIS freedom. Not terrorists. If the Iraqis wanted a different type of government they could have done it . There are enough of them. When the French no longer wanted an Aristrocracy off went their head. And the French don't have battle stick-it-ness. People can and do rise up Government and many find simple favorable countries that have less corrupt government.

You are right.
And I for one am really glad we have someone like you here, who knows how governments REALLY work, to explain everything to us.
Yep, it's all about just going to random countries and forcing democracy.
We are just like the Nazis trying to take over the world
I mean Saddam didn't do anything.
He didn't start the first war by invading any other countries.
He didn't use chemical weapons to kill hundreds of thousands of his own people and his neighbors.
And he sure as hell didn't try to hide anything or violate any of the agreements he didn't make following the war that didn't happen in which he didn't try to take over another country.

And hell, why in the world did we ever go to France in WW2. After all, if they didn't want the Nazi's ruling their country they should have just risen up and gotten rid of them. It's obviously not difficult for a people to get together and overthrow their rulers.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Yet more grist for the mill . . . Here is an interesting synopsis of the timestamped chronology of the killing that I found thought-provoking. I have not watched the tape all the way through and don't know whether it's completely accurate, but it certainly sounds odd to the extent it is:

Check out the video timestamp timeline:

13:26 - Berg states his and his father's name. Seated in plastic patio chair in orange jumpsuit. Shot taken from a side angle.

2:18 - Seated in same chair, same jumpsuit, shot taken from the front. Berg identifies his family and where he lives.

2:40 - Berg is seated quietly on the floor in front of five masked men. All the men seem very well fed and the exposed skin rather pale for a bunch of islamic terrorists on the run. The middle guy appears to be reading from two pages of prepared text, although he is continually turning the pages over and over and over, his actions making it completely impossible for anyone to read anything from those papers. The video is too grainy to tell if the guy's mouth is moving.

2:44 - The shot angle has not changed - the middle guy is still 'reading' from his papers. Wild screaming starts on the soundtrack, but none of the masked men seem to notice it, and Berg is still sitting very quietly in front of them. He has not moved at all during these four minutes.

2:45 - the middle guy draws a knife from his jacket, pushes Berg over, and the camera suddenly zooms into such a tight closeup that the screen goes black. The timestamp abruptly changes here.

13:45 - the camera pulls back to reveal Berg utterly motionless, being manhandled by the attackers. An assailant with a black mask draws the knife across the throat, while an assailant with a white mask sits on the motionless body. The soundtrack has several people shouting "allahu akbar", but the opinion of native Iraqi speakers who have heard it is that the accents are NOT Iraqui, more likely arabic or arabic as second language.

13:46 - screaming escalates on the soundtrack yet the windpipe has quite clearly already been completely severed by the knife-weilding assailant with the Black Mask, the head being connected only by the spine. No screaming is physically possible at that point, yet it mysteriously continues, much the way it started. White Mask assailant still stitting on the motionless body, doing nothing.

13:47 - There is another in/out camera zoom and suddenly it is the White Mask assailant, not the Black Mask one, that steps away from the body, knife in hand, holding the head aloft. No blood anywhere. At this point, the timestamp and the camera angle abruptly change again.

2:41 - Berg's head held aloft by White Mask, different angle, no blood. Curious - what day is this? As previously noted, during the 2:40 through 2:44 period, Berg could be seen alive, seated quietly in front of his captors as they 'read' their statement.

13:48 - timestamp and shot abruptly change again. Now we get shot of head resting on top of the prone body, with a zoom on the body's severed neck. Everything is very clean, completely inconsistent with the forensic reality of decapitation.

 

[katka]

You are right.
And I for one am really glad we have someone like you here, who knows how governments REALLY work, to explain everything to us.
Yep, it's all about just going to random countries and forcing democracy.
We are just like the Nazis trying to take over the world
I mean Saddam didn't do anything.
He didn't start the first war by invading any other countries.
He didn't use chemical weapons to kill hundreds of thousands of his own people and his neighbors.
And he sure as hell didn't try to hide anything or violate any of the agreements he didn't make following the war that didn't happen in which he didn't try to take over another country.

And hell, why in the world did we ever go to France in WW2. After all, if they didn't want the Nazi's ruling their country they should have just risen up and gotten rid of them. It's obviously not difficult for a people to get together and overthrow their rulers.

I know that I am right. Saddam trusted the US and fought Iran with weapons provided by the CIA (remember the contra scandal) and was stabbed in the back by the US when they wanted to sell you some $3.00 Texas Oil to get back and forth to work with. What did Saddam do to the US or more importantly to you that deprived YOU of YOUR FREEDOM????? Not one DAMN thing. The people in the military signed up to "defend the USA from ememies foreign and domestic"!!!!!!!!! Not to go around the world taking over countries and implementing governments in countries that have been lied about to the UN. It is the UNITED NATIONS job to solve problems such as the one that Saddam was accused of doing. Why did people die in China???? Because someone tried to infilltrate the system and introduce Democracy as the Panacea to all of their woes and they got thousand of people kill because China wasn't hearing it. They tried some big Countries too. It didn't work. :0. In WW2 the US helped France AND England, because Hiltler was kicking some butts!!!!. It is the same as this . When Hitler started killing Jews and taking over less significant countries, the World sat back and said "well isn't that just sad", but when he got greedier and greedier all of a sudden he was "a madman". It is the same, the Bush has in this instance picked on one of the smaller countries where others are saying "well isn't that just sad". In addition, England was the only one that was in it from the begininning because of MONEY. After loosing Hong Kong, they lost a lot of loot and this was a way to get some of it back. Saddam should have NEVER made the agreement not to protect himself anyway, and since there were NO WMD'S he didn't break it anyway.

Get real!. If you believe in this war get to your local recruiter and trade your keyboard in for a gun. I am sure that they would be happy to have someone who thinks that they did the right thing.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: katka

You are right.
And I for one am really glad we have someone like you here, who knows how governments REALLY work, to explain everything to us.
Yep, it's all about just going to random countries and forcing democracy.
We are just like the Nazis trying to take over the world
I mean Saddam didn't do anything.
He didn't start the first war by invading any other countries.
He didn't use chemical weapons to kill hundreds of thousands of his own people and his neighbors.
And he sure as hell didn't try to hide anything or violate any of the agreements he didn't make following the war that didn't happen in which he didn't try to take over another country.

And hell, why in the world did we ever go to France in WW2. After all, if they didn't want the Nazi's ruling their country they should have just risen up and gotten rid of them. It's obviously not difficult for a people to get together and overthrow their rulers.

I know that I am right. Saddam trusted the US and fought Iran with weapons provided by the CIA (remember the contra scandal) and was stabbed in the back by the US when they wanted to sell you some $3.00 Texas Oil to get back and forth to work with. What did Saddam do to the US or more importantly to you that deprived YOU of YOUR FREEDOM????? Not one DAMN thing. The people in the military signed up to "defend the USA from ememies foreign and domestic"!!!!!!!!! Not to go around the world taking over countries an implementing governments in countries that have been lied about to the UN. It is the UNITED NATIONS job to solve problems such as the one that Saddam was accused of doing. Why did people die in China???? Because someone tried to infilltrate the system and introduce Democracy as the Panacea to all of their woes and they got thousand of people kill because China wasn't hearing it. They tried some big Countries too. It did work. :0. In WW2 the US helped France AND England, because Hiltler was kicking some butts!!!!. It is the same as this . When Hitler stated killing Jews and taking over less significant countries, the World sat back and said "well isn't that just sad", but when he got greedier and greedier all of a sudden he was "a madman". It is the same, the Bush has in this instance picked on one of the smaller countries where others are saying "well isn't that just sad". In addition, England was the only one that was in it from the begininning because of MONEY. After loosing Hong Kong, they lost a lot of loot and this was a way to get some of it back. Saddam should have NEVER made the agreement not to protect himself anyway, and since there were NO WMD'S he didn't break it anyway.

Get real!. If you believe in this war get to your local recruiter and trade your keyboard in for a gun. I am sure that they would be happy to have someone who thinks that they did the right thing.

Saddam signed a ceasefire, he broke the ceasefire.