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Bench Press

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classy said:
Well having 25 years of experience I would disgaree with much of this. I am willing to bet he is overtrained. The amount of volume is different for beginners. If he is light or trying to gain weight, he could easily be overtrained. If he is a bigger man, trying to lose maybe not so much and he could be at a mental block. No offense but I could not possibly believe any good bodybuilder especially not any powerlifter worth a grain a salt will ever tell you benching 3 times a week is good to gain size or strength.

That once every ten days is an old time trick. Its not a permament one, but it would definately help if its a mental one. I gave some advice based on many many years of training. I am in my 40s with the body of man 30. I have had the good fortunate to train with a couple state level bobybuilding champions, several top east coast powerlifters as well over the years.

Its hard to give good training advice when you don't know the person face to face. As I said I wouldn't lighten the weight, I would suggest a couple less sets or change in routine to get away from a possible mental block.

Let me also add this one note, I could see a bodybuilder benching 3 times a week getting ready for show, but he won't trying to move more weight like this young man here is trying to do.
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While I respect your years of experience, it doesn't trump 25 years of research. The human body isn't helpless. There are many programs that have had people completing the same or similar lifts 3x per week without any problems for years. I don't know if you are using the official term of overtraining, but that takes 1) significantly more time with weightlifting, 2) isn't really plausible here due to the intensity and slight stall. If he were truly overtrained, he would be noticing declines in ability to sleep, resting heart rate, he may actually regress in weights lifted. He's just talking about a plateau, which in beginners is almost always a motor recruitment issue (not optimal motor program/form).

The old bodybuilder montage of doing one lift once every week is based on false knowledge of enzyme biomarkers. Creatine phosphokinase peaks and then trails off about in that time, but on the large scale, people can lift every other day (with intermittent breaks every few months) without problems. Also, keep in mind that the demands for a good, experienced powerlifter or bodybuilder are significantly different than for a novice. Of course they wouldn't say that. However, if you want to go that route, Louie Armstrong from Westside Barbell frequently has people doing the same lift twice or even three times per week.

I agree that it is difficult to understand the problem fully without knowing the person, but research doesn't support that lifting LESS frequently helps. He could even just modify one day into a dynamic lifting day for bench where he did 10 sets of 2 at a fairly light weight. Or he could do something like Grease the Groove, both of which are focused on improving neural coordination. I bet that would give better results than reducing his benching frequency. It also has a basis in research.
 
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Sixguns said:
Once a week. My routine is
Monday-Chest/Tri
Tuesday-Back/Bi
Wed-OFF
Thrusday-Shoulder/Tri
Friday-Leg/Bi

I change the days every few months to keep myself from falling into a rut.
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Reduce the Tri workout or eliminate it completely. You're already utilizing your tris in the bench. Pick up the Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.
 
CPA said:
Reduce the Tri workout or eliminate it completely. You're already utilizing your tris in the bench. Pick up the Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.
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Seconded. If you're trying to gain strength, a bodybuilding program is not optimal for that. It works, yes, but it'll give you more problems than something like Starting Strength will.
 
CPA said:
Reduce the Tri workout or eliminate it completely. You're already utilizing your tris in the bench. Pick up the Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.
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I only do 3 tri workouts on chest day for that very reason. My main tri day is later in the week when I do shoulders.
 
Sixguns said:
I only do 3 tri workouts on chest day for that very reason. My main tri day is later in the week when I do shoulders.
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You mean three triceps exercises? "Only 3" is way, way too much. I mean, if you want to stick with the bodybuilding program, that's fine, but you're going to have to accept slower strength gains. If you want to go for strength gains, you're going to have to lift at a higher intensity and with less accessory (as a beginner - this changes later). The problem with bodybuilding programs is that most of them aren't built for beginners. They're built for people who have fair experience and strength behind them. They're also typically built for people who are juicing. That type of volume is sometimes hard to deal with (bench, chest, AND tri work all in one day - 3-4 sets of each) in the absence of anabolic steroids.
 
Take the advice.
I do just over a handful of lifts,

Squat, Bench, Deadlift, barbell row, OHP. <- Main Lifts
Once a week for accessory lifts: Dips, lying triceps extension, pull ups, and for the girls, dumbbell curl.

This is all that's really needed to build significant strength.
 
melchoir said:
Take the advice.
I do just over a handful of lifts,

Squat, Bench, Deadlift, barbell row, OHP. <- Main Lifts
Once a week for accessory lifts: Dips, lying triceps extension, pull ups, and for the girls, dumbbell curl.

This is all that's really needed to build significant strength.
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I cannot do those due to a fusion in my lower back. Surgeon has said to stay away from them so I do not plan on ever trying them out.
 
Sixguns said:
I cannot do those due to a fusion in my lower back. Surgeon has said to stay away from them so I do not plan on ever trying them out.
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Hm, this is where there's a lot of controversy among healthcare providers. The surgeons like to say stay away from it because it saves them from liability. However, if the graft is secure and you have good hip mobility, squats and deadlifts shouldn't be a problem if you perform the lifts with optimal form. If you don't stress the fusion into flexion, you're not really going to have any problems. Well, actually, that depend on why you had the fusion. Did you have it due to a spondylolisthesis? Disc degeneration? What? (You may have mentioned it before on the forums, but I don't remember.)
 
SociallyChallenged said:
Hm, this is where there's a lot of controversy among healthcare providers. The surgeons like to say stay away from it because it saves them from liability. However, if the graft is secure and you have good hip mobility, squats and deadlifts shouldn't be a problem if you perform the lifts with optimal form. If you don't stress the fusion into flexion, you're not really going to have any problems. Well, actually, that depend on why you had the fusion. Did you have it due to a spondylolisthesis? Disc degeneration? What? (You may have mentioned it before on the forums, but I don't remember.)
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I have. I had a herniated/compressed disc. By the time they did surgery, my upper spine had actually moved forward slightly due to the disc and started to pull my nerves up in my legs. The fusion is on my L5/S1 which is right about the hips.
 
Sixguns said:
I have. I had a herniated/compressed disc. By the time they did surgery, my upper spine had actually moved forward slightly due to the disc and started to pull my nerves up in my legs. The fusion is on my L5/S1 which is right about the hips.
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Ah, so you have a spondylolisthesis. Yeah, in all honesty, I wouldn't squat/deadlift with that, unless with was corrected surgically (which they don't do unless it's moderate to severe).
 
SociallyChallenged said:
Ah, so you have a spondylolisthesis. Yeah, in all honesty, I wouldn't squat/deadlift with that, unless with was corrected surgically (which they don't do unless it's moderate to severe).
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My spine movement was caused my the messed up disc or so says my surgeon. He said that he never saw that happen because of a disc but the disc they remove was also about 1/8 of the size of a healthy one.

He also claimed that how much weight I had put on and was carrying in the midsection might have factored into it.
 
I dropped my weight down to 195lbs and did it 5x5 on the flat bench and then used he incline bench instead of DB's. Also did 5x5 and felt great. The rest of my workout seemed to be much smoother.
 
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