Ben Barnes to go Public On Sixty Minutes About Pulling Strings for GWB...

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Do I personally think that President Bush used some connections to get in the TxANG? Certainly, but that's not the point.

That's the whole point. GWB should have gone to Vietnam to serve like a true patriot would have. Instead he took the easy way out... just like he's done his whole life.

Who are you to say if GWB, or anyone else for that matter, should have gone to Vietnam? Are you aware that not everyone who was drafted during that period ended up in Vietnam?

By the same token, should GWB's predecessor have also gone to Vietnam? If not, then why?

 

[Todd33]

Well, to be fair GW supported the war in Vietnam and Clinton didn't.

 

[Mockery]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Do I personally think that President Bush used some connections to get in the TxANG? Certainly, but that's not the point.

That's the whole point. GWB should have gone to Vietnam to serve like a true patriot would have. Instead he took the easy way out... just like he's done his whole life.

All this from someone who isn't currently fighting in either Iraq or Afghanistan. lol

Where can I purchase a nice pedestal to sit on.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Well, to be fair GW supported the war in Vietnam and Clinton didn't.

that's always been the bit that annoyed me.

getting out of going to war because your anti-war seems somehow noble to me.

but getting out of going to a war that you were in favor of seems cowardly.

 

[chess9]

All this discussion and the neocon chicken hawks haven't answered this salient question:

"HOW DID G.W. GET INTO THE AIR NATIONAL GUARD?"

Let's see, here are the possibilities:

1. He scored highest on the test and was selected on that basis;
2. Since only 4 slots were available that year he won the Texas Air National Guard lottery, as did the 3 other sons of politicians the same year;
3. The Air National Guard Commander liked GW best and selected him over hundreds of other applicants based solely on his obvious talents.
4. The Air National Guard Commander, in accordance with the then well-known practice of CYA, accepted the sons of prominent Texas politicians into the Guard.

So, which is it? Or do you have another possibility?

-Robert

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: chess9

So, which is it? Or do you have another possibility?

-Robert

Here's my theory:

Buck Staudt, realizing he could eat some political cheese with GHWB, allowed GWB to join his unit.

But Ben Barnes' participation in the matter? Inconsequential, at best.

 

[bozack]

Hey look it is liberal-rip posting...infochicken.

 

[chess9]

Burndeout:

Well, at least one man is honest enough to admit the obvious.

I think everyone here probably agrees that Bush got a POLITICAL deferment.

Once we've gotten past that point, then a remaining question is: "What does it mean in the context of this year's election that Bush got a POLITICAL deferment?"

Probably not a lot, in light of the jobs issue and the broad opposition to the War in Iraq. It is a very small sideshow that means more to the right wing than the left.

The Bush campaign, however, is going a splendid job of making Kerry look like some whining Commie while Bush-the draft dodger-looks like a Commander in Chief. Welcome to PERCEPTION IS REALITY POLITICS.

If Kerry doesn't come up with some truly awesome counter attacks, then Bush is going to clean his clock come election day. It's time for some seriously nasty politics, AND I CAN'T WAIT to hear more mud slinging.


-Robert

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: burnedout
Who are you to say if GWB, or anyone else for that matter, should have gone to Vietnam?

I'm a citizen.

Are you aware that not everyone who was drafted during that period ended up in Vietnam?

Of course. But only the privileged weaseled out of harm's way.

By the same token, should GWB's predecessor have also gone to Vietnam? If not, then why?

Yeah, he weaseled out too.

 

[burnedout]

Robert:

Normally this topic would remain completely irrelavent for me personally were it not for the fact that it has been previously examined both here in Texas and on a national scale. One of my main pet peeves, so to speak, relates to the various conspiracy theory angles. Ben Barnes is a recognized opportunist, and has been for quite some time.

If an O6 in the NG isn't playing the political game with elected officials, then one could venture to say that he/she isn't exactly gainfully employed.

Will the mudslinging become more intense this election? Sure, although the Dems must come up with something more convincing than an easily discredited political loon.

 

[chess9]

burnedout:

I think Barnes' credibility quotient is probably low, but not zero. Regardless, we don't need him to tell us Bush got a political deferment. It's obviously the only rational explanation for Bush's Guard service.

BTW, when I was in college after the Corps, the biggest topic of discussion was how to avoid the draft. The only guys we knew about who got into the guard had political ties. What was so odd was it didn't matter what your political views were in 1965-72, almost no one in college wanted to go to 'Nam!

-Robert

 

[burnedout]

Of course. But only the privileged weaseled out of harm's way.

Oh really? Then please explain that interesting bit of conjecture to Charles Robb (LBJ's son-in-law at the time, I think), Norman Schwartzkopf (father cracked the Limburg case) or Blackjack Pershing's grandson (KIA, if I'm not mistaken).

 

[burnedout]

Robert: I missed the 'Nam era by about 8 years. But yes, I agree, and know of a few who used their parent's aristocratic influence to enlist in the KYNG under similar circumstances. Conversely, my relatives expecting their number to be called merely went on ahead and enlisted.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Of course. But only the privileged weaseled out of harm's way.

Oh really? Then please explain that interesting bit of conjecture to Charles Robb (LBJ's son-in-law at the time, I think), Norman Schwartzkopf (father cracked the Limburg case) or Blackjack Pershing's grandson (KIA, if I'm not mistaken).

It's easy to explain. Not all privileged people weaseled out. Those that weaseled out were privileged. Get it?

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Any young man alive during the Vietnam draft and seeking alternative service to cannon fodder quickly learned that the Guard, particularly the Air Guard, had a reservation system for guys like GWB. It wasn't like the Guard of today, not at all. Guard commanders had a great deal of discretion, some using it to advance their own ambitions. Just the way it was. Utterly unfair and preferential- too bad, you're screwed, unless there's something I figure you can do for me...

I'm amazed at how many vets from that era somehow don't remember that they couldn't even enlist in the Marine corps, for a time, let alone the Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard or Merchant Marine, and that the only avalable Army MOS's were combat infantry and K9, but somehow GWB jumps to the front of the line for the Air Guard... Just lucky, right?

If you believe that, you probably believe in the tooth fairy, too.

I'm from that era and I totally agree with the accuracy of those statements.

I also don't disagree with Bush Sr denials of him excercising any influence to win W his safe, honorable berth in the National Guard. But I suspect that Barnes' statements are the closest to the truth.

I think people don't really understand how political influence works in the real world. Favors are rarely requested-its more of a nod and a wink system. Someone let it be known to those in power, like Barnes, that GWB was of draft age and had an interest in the Guard. Odds are strong that someone was W or his father. Barnes saw an opportunity to increase his political capital and position by influencing the Guard to take Bush. I'm sure all took steps to remain within the limits of the law.