Ben Barnes to go Public On Sixty Minutes About Pulling Strings for GWB...

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Secondly, have you ever been in the military?

How dare you introduce another cognitively dissonant strawman into the debate. For one who attempts to exemplify reason in numerous bullshit posts, you certainly chose one dickedup topic to touch on.

Sound familiar?

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAH.

You're all red in the face aren't you? And are you supposed to be one of those "tough men"?



:laugh:

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: burnedout

Secondly, have you ever been in the military?

How dare you introduce another cognitively dissonant strawman into the debate. For one who attempts to exemplify reason in numerous bullshit posts, you certainly chose one dickedup topic to touch on.

Sound familiar?

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAH.

You're all red in the face aren't you? And are you supposed to be one of those "tough men"?
:laugh:

No, in fact, much to your delusional chagrin, I'm sitting here drinking a beer. Nice try though.

 

[CycloWizard]

Yet another throwback to 30 years ago. Last I checked, we have enough problems now that candidates should let things lie (and yes, that goes for both sides, as I have been saying all along). If this much energy was put into something constructive, like policies dealing with Iraq and Iran, maybe they would have come up with something creative.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Awwww - poor Barnes - Seems Bush Sr. never helped. linky

CsG

WHO would believe what the Ex-Director of the CIA had to say?? like he is going to tell the truth that could SERIOUSLY HARM his own childs political career?? politicians are all criminals...

 

[ReiAyanami]

now Cheney pulls GWB's strings for him

 

[her209]

If Bush served honorably, why withhold records from the public?

 

[fjord]

Link

Gee, I wasn't aware there still are some people gullable enough to believe anything George HW Bush claims.

Mr Iran-Contra logistics himself.

We cannot provide here a complete overview of the Iran-Contra affair. We shall attempt, rather, to give an account of George Bush's decisive, central role in those events, which occurred during his vice-presidency and spilled over into his presidency. The principal elements of scandal in Iran-Contra may be reduced to the following points:


1) the secret arming of the Khomeini regime in Iran by the U.S. government, during an official U.S.-decreed arms embargo against Iran, while the U.S. publicly denounced the recipients of its secret deliveries as terrorists and kidnappers--a policy initiated under the Jimmy Carter presidency and accelerated by the Reagan-Bush administration;


2) the Reagan-Bush administration's secret arming of its `` Contras '' for war against the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua, while such aid was explicitly prohibited under U.S. law;


3) the use of communist and terrorist enemies--often armed directly by the Anglo-Americans--to justify a police state and covert, oligarchical rule at home;


4) paying for and protecting the gun-running projects with drug- smuggling, embezzlement, theft by diversion from authorized U.S. programs, and the `` silencing '' of both opponents and knowledgeable participants in the schemes; and


5) the continual, routine perjury and deception of the public by government officials pretending to have no knowledge of these activities; and the routine acquiescence in that deception by Congressmen too frightened to oppose it.


When the scandal broke, in late 1986 and early 1987, George Bush maintained that he knew nothing about these illegal activities; that other government officials involved in them had kept him in the dark; that he had attended no important meetings where these subjects were under discussion. Since that time, many once- classified documents have come to light, which suggest that Bush organized and supervised many, or most, of the criminal aspects of the Iran-Contra adventures. The most significant events relevant to George Bush's role are presented here in the format of a chronology. At the end of the chronology, parts of the testimony of George Bush's loyal assistant Donald Gregg will be provided, to allow for a comparison of the documented events with the Bush camp's account of things. Over the time period covered, the reader will observe the emergence of new structures in the U.S. government:

 

[Infohawk]

Nice post fjord. George Sr. is a lying plutocrat who manipulates the system whenever he can to his advantage, including his simian product of an unholy bond with god knows what kind of beast in the wild.

 

[NightCrawler]

So wait a guy who raised $500,000 for Kerry is blowing the lid on Bush.......right.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: conjur

Barnes is a Kerry supporter, and the White House last week tried to depict him as a longtime partisan. But the fact is, Barnes for years resisted any attempt to get dragged into a political debate about Bush's war record. It was only under threat of legal action back in 1999 -- and only after efforts to assert "executive privilege" failed -- that Barnes came forward with his statement about helping Bush. (And even then, Barnes issued it through his attorney, refusing to answer press questions.) The lawsuit was brought by a disgruntled Texas lottery executive who charged that his former company, which Barnes lobbied for, was able to keep a lucrative Texas state contract in exchange for Barnes' remaining silent about helping Bush get into the Guard. The case was later settled out of court, with the executive receiving $300,000.

From the AP via the WaPo September 27th, 1999:

Barnes, a Democrat, has been at the center of questions about Bush's Vietnam-era service for several weeks.

His name surfaced in a lawsuit filed in federal court in Dallas by the former executive director of the Texas Lottery. Lawrence Littwin has sued GTECH Corp., the lottery operator, alleging that the company is to blame for his firing in 1997, after four months on the job.

According to court records, Littwin's lawyers wanted to question Barnes, who used to lobby for GTECH, about whether GTECH was allowed to keep its lucrative state contract in exchange for Barnes' silence about the Guard matter.

That theory has been dismissed as unfounded by GTECH, Barnes and Bush.

 

[Infohawk]

So burnedout, basically what you're saying is this guy is probably not biased, unlike George Bush Sr.

 

[1EZduzit]

So why did Sid Alger ask Barnes to help? Why?? Why would he care about someone who only scored 25/100? It certainly wasn't on merit. Why was GWB pushed ahead of everyone else in line and then put into the "champange unit" with the rest of the Texas elite?

It's a simple case of you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. Anyone who can't see that is either brainwashed, a moron, or just another lying NeoCon.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

CsG

You taking Bush Sr. at face value when he's obviously biased in this situation is odd. What else is Bush Sr. gonna' say?

Are you so naive you don't think something like this happened?

Yes or no: do you think privileged people got out of serving in Vietnam because of their power?

I assume you have some sort of proof to show everyone? Thought so... ...next "smear"

CsG[/quote]

:roll: The evidence in this case is Barnes's word. We don't have any compelling reason to question it. Again, it makes sense because this type of thing was done all the time. And I'm sure they didn't keep records of the hand greasing and patronage.

On the other hand we have Sr. who's word we can easily question because he would have been the culprit! If you want to challenge Barnes get someone who was objective, not the spoiled brat's daddy.

I gotta give it to the Repugs though. THey got out early and challenged this stuff. Kerry's gotta follow suit. He should also take a lesson and keep driving this point into the ground until it's accepted as fact-- just like the neocons do.[/quote]


You'll question the word of the Former President of the United States, and decorated war hero Bush Sr (TRUE war hero.. ahem), but if Kerry says he was in Cambodia and 300 people come out questioning it you give him the benefit of the doubt... Umm.. hypocrite?

 

[Infohawk]

You'll question the word of the Former President of the United States, and decorated war hero Bush Sr (TRUE war hero.. ahem), but if Kerry says he was in Cambodia and 300 people come out questioning it you give him the benefit of the doubt... Umm.. hypocrite?

If you had read the above posts closer you would understand the reasons I trust one and not the other. Bush Sr. is a sinister figure who participated in the Iran-Contra scandal. He's a fraud and a liar, just like his son.

I hope you believe everything that Bill Clinton says because he's a former president of the United States too. Or are you a hypocrite.

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I assume you have some sort of proof to show everyone? Thought so... ...next "smear"

Here's all the proof anyone needs:

Bush was jumped ahead of a nationwide waiting list of 100,000 Guard applicants, while achieving the lowest possible passing grade on his pilot aptitude test for would-be fliers, and listing "none" as his background qualifications.

 

[burnedout]

From the *ahem* commercial:

"I got a young man named George W. Bush into the National Guard when I was lieutenant governor of Texas, and I'm not necessarily proud of that, but I did it,"

Interestingly, old Barnes wasn't elected LT Governor until 1969.. Meanwhile, a copy of President Bush's enlistment packet located here indicates an enlistment date of 27 May, 68. Hmmmmmmmmm. [bigass red flags immediately go flying up all over the place].

So burnedout, basically what you're saying is this guy is probably not biased, unlike George Bush Sr.

Your words, not mine.

For your viewing pleasure, however, I've gratiously included Mr. Barnes' contributions to Democrats over the years. Enjoy scrolling. Be sure to click "Next 25" at the bottom of each page. You're welcome, by the way.

So why did Sid Alger ask Barnes to help? Why?? Why would he care about someone who only scored 25/100? It certainly wasn't on merit. Why was GWB pushed ahead of everyone else in line and then put into the "champange unit" with the rest of the Texas elite?

To my knowledge, only one person specifically maintains that Sid Adger tried to help: Barnes.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: burnedout
From the *ahem* commercial:

"I got a young man named George W. Bush into the National Guard when I was lieutenant governor of Texas, and I'm not necessarily proud of that, but I did it,"

Interestingly, old Barnes wasn't elected LT Governor until 1969.. Meanwhile, a copy of President Bush's enlistment packet located here indicates an enlistment date of 27 May, 68. Hmmmmmmmmm. [bigass red flags immediately go flying up all over the place].

That election would have been held in 1968.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: burnedout
From the *ahem* commercial:

"I got a young man named George W. Bush into the National Guard when I was lieutenant governor of Texas, and I'm not necessarily proud of that, but I did it,"

Interestingly, old Barnes wasn't elected LT Governor until 1969.. Meanwhile, a copy of President Bush's enlistment packet located here indicates an enlistment date of 27 May, 68. Hmmmmmmmmm. [bigass red flags immediately go flying up all over the place].

That election would have been held in 1968.

Yes, that is correct. November, 1968. Nice try.

Next.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: burnedout
From the *ahem* commercial:

"I got a young man named George W. Bush into the National Guard when I was lieutenant governor of Texas, and I'm not necessarily proud of that, but I did it,"

Interestingly, old Barnes wasn't elected LT Governor until 1969.. Meanwhile, a copy of President Bush's enlistment packet located here indicates an enlistment date of 27 May, 68. Hmmmmmmmmm. [bigass red flags immediately go flying up all over the place].

That election would have been held in 1968.

Yes, that is correct. November, 1968. Nice try.

Next.

And Barnes wasn't running throughout the year, including primaries?

Also, you forget Barnes was a political protege of then-Governor Connally.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: conjur

And Barnes wasn't running throughout the year, including primaries?

Also, you forget Barnes was a political protege of then-Governor Connally.

"when I was lieutenant governor of Texas".

If he was "running", as you say, then how could he "get a young man" in the Guard when he wasn't yet LT. Governor? Oh, wait, he was Speaker of the House at the time! A Democrat, by golly!

 

[conjur]

And your memories of your actions 30 years ago are crystal clear?

 

[burnedout]

And your memories of your actions 30 years ago are crystal clear?

Fair. But I'm not the one making allegations based upon a certain point in my life.

 

[1EZduzit]

It looks Barnes was the Speaker of the House in Texas at the time.

[Barnes] intervened on Bush's behalf sometime in late 1967 or early 1968 at the request of a good friend of Bush's father, then a Republican congressman from Houston, the sources said. The friend, Sidney A. Adger, was a prominent Houston business executive who died in 1996. The Guard official contacted at his behest, Brig. Gen. James M. Rose, died in 1993.

Jean Becker, a spokeswoman for former president Bush, confirmed that the senior Bush and Adger were good friends, but she said Bush firmly denies talking to Adger about helping his son get into the Guard.


Col. Buck Staudt, who ran the air wing in which Bush served, had filled his "champagne unit" with the politically connected and wealthy. The sons of U.S. Sens. Lloyd Bentsen and John Tower of Texas were in that unit, along with the son of Texas Gov. John Connally and the two sons of Sidney Adger, George H.W. Bush's closest friend in Houston. I should have let that speak for itself.

So let's suppose that Barnes acted on behalf of someone who was acting on his own initiative. It doesn't change the narrative of Bush as a man of privilege. One could argue that this shows him to be extra specially privileged, since his wish to avoid combat was magically fulfilled without his direct knowledge or involvement. Good things just happen to George W. Bush. Always have, always will.

 

[burnedout]

You left this part out:

Staudt said in an interview that he knew Adger, but that Adger never mentioned Bush to him. Bush has said that he met Staudt in late 1967, during Christmas vacation of his senior year at Yale, called him later, and by Bush's account, "found out what it took to apply."

Essentially, this is a "he said/she said/they said" situation with contradicting or suspect statements from both sides.

Do I personally think that President Bush used some connections to get in the TxANG? Certainly, but that's not the point. The point is that Ben Barnes says he "got a young man in" while serving as LT. Governor which, from various accounts, appears obviously incorrect.

 

[Infohawk]

Do I personally think that President Bush used some connections to get in the TxANG? Certainly, but that's not the point.

That's the whole point. GWB should have gone to Vietnam to serve like a true patriot would have. Instead he took the easy way out... just like he's done his whole life.