Belief in God at Lowest Levels Ever in America- Gallup Poll, 81%

[Mai72]

Believing in god or in "a god" depends on how it is you believe.
I know a hell of a lot of devoted christians who dread in horror the very thought of dying and death. That makes absolutely no sense to me. If a christian believes in a god then why should a christian fear death? And if they fear death, then do they really believe in god or in "a god" in the first place?
For most christians I don't think they really know what the hell they believe in. I do know that most of them definitely believe in Donald Trump, isn't that a kick in the ass? Believing in Donald Trump and preaching Donald Trump from the pulpit?
I suppose that Trump christians feel Donald Trump delivered to them the overturning of Roe vs wade. A pretty hefty price to pay for alliance to an antichrist, and I ask was it worth it?

There might have been reason to believe in a god back when people were on their own and had no access to medical treatment or to doctors. As in the 1800's. 1700's. But today pills and medication are more popular than gods or a god. And when most christians fear death as they do today, then what is the point of believing in an afterlife or a god? What is it their god is suppose to do for them in times of need?
Like Jesus said hanging on the cross... forgive them, they're assholes.

Religion has done a huge disservice in regard to death.

Instead of being honest about death, children are told that they will one day see their grandmother in heaven. Pick the religon: Hinduism, Christanity, Islam, Judaism and even Buddhism. People are naturally fearful of death, and within every religion their is a promise of a heaven, and for the people who do wrong or sin there is hell. The truth is the universe does not care about us! In the grand scheme of life, we don't really matter. I'm not a nihilist in the sense that nothing matters, but within the time frame of the age of the earth (4.5b) and the universe (13.7b) we really don't matter. When we pass away our thoughts, goals, memories, family, etc. They are all going to vanish forever. That is a very difficult truth to process for many people. I was watching a video on YouTube about the 1940s. The people in the video were once alive. They once had goals, family, a career, and memories. All are now gone to time. Vanished forever. IMO, the Buddha was one of the only religious figures who told the turth about life. That the universe and our world is impermanent. That nothing last forever. Its the human experience. We grow up, get old, sick and die. That is our fate. And, it's this impermenance that causes us so much pain and suffering. Most people want to ignore this fact, and so religion fills that void. The dread of not being alive for eternity.

I've seen studies on people who fear death the most. What they found was the ultra religious, and the strong atheist feared death the least. It was the people who were in the middle who feared death the most. Also, the there are no atheist in fox hole argument has been debunked many times. The "you'll fear god on your deathbed" has been debunked. There have been plenty of atheist who have been on their death bed and they died as atheist. Christopher Hitchens, who was a staunch athiest, and who had written books like "God is Not Great" comes to mind. Also, stauch theist are atheist in regard to other religions. A Christian believes the Muslim, is wrong. The Muslim believes the Christian and Hindu is wrong. And so on... We are all atheist in that respect.

"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” ~Mark Twain.

 

[cytg111]

I find it quite amusing that so many of the folk here who do not believe in God seem so upset about the fact that some people say they do. What could that possibly be all about? I wonder if they maybe even feel entitled to molest children who believe in Santa Clause. Talk about triggered...............

Or that I cant possibly trust the rationale of a true believer… He might decide to pump the brakes on the highway and say Jesus made him do it. Its like having a bug in the programming and calling it a feature. No. Its a bug.
Statement: You cant have true compassion for your fellow man if you believe in a deity.

 

[Moonbeam]

This is more of you enlightenment projection talking.

A bit of lashing out as well, as being presented with your own humanity in different facets is something that doesn’t fit you arrogant enlightened professed persona.

Identifying what you are doing isn’t lashing out. It’s just the surfacing of your defensiveness when presented with the the facts that your world view is based on competitiveness. Any reflection on how you operate can’t be taken any other way than a challenge to your self worth. Not my intention to make you feel that way. My intention is to point out the behaviors you manifest that show you already do, you and others similarly triggered.

it isn’t guns or believers that is the problem, but your unconscious lack of trust that truth is good to know. Your knowingness is there to prevent open-mindedness. Something to think about if you were so inclined. Or you see if you can shoot my religious goat. Have fun.

 

[evident]

Modern Christians did a great job of driving me away from any religious views.

I have no one to thank but my parents and brother for not giving a crap anymore.... they had a whole fallout and fought non-stop after my brother became a born again (family is catholic) and still have pissing fights to this day.. just made me realize how dumb it all is. the right wing hijacking of the leadership just makes me care even less. I still consider myself a lapsed catholic

 

[ch33zw1z]

Identifying what you are doing isn’t lashing out. It’s just the surfacing of your defensiveness when presented with the the facts that your world view is based on competitiveness. Any reflection on how you operate can’t be taken any other way than a challenge to your self worth. Not my intention to make you feel that way. My intention is to point out the behaviors you manifest that show you already do, you and others similarly triggered.

lol, ok moonie, whatever you say that boss. This, again, sounds like 100% projection. You're not identifying what I'm doing, you're stating what you perceive me to be doing. I'm stating what I perceive you to be doing.

Look man, you're human, not nearly as enlightened as you claim to be, and two topics eloquently reveal it.

it isn’t guns or believers that is the problem, but your unconscious lack of trust that truth is good to know. Your knowingness is there to prevent open-mindedness. Something to think about if you were so inclined. Or you see if you can shoot my religious goat. Have fun.

Yes, it's not the guns or believers that are the problem! That's the truthiness of it!

You play the same games countless religious leaders do. Easy to see from an objective perspective. Give it a try sometime!

 

[Moonbeam]

lol, ok moonie, whatever you say that boss. This, again, sounds like 100% projection. You're not identifying what I'm doing, you're stating what you perceive me to be doing. I'm stating what I perceive you to be doing.

Look man, you're human, not nearly as enlightened as you claim to be, and two topics eloquently reveal it.



Yes, it's not the guns or believers that are the problem! That's the truthiness of it!

You play the same games countless religious leaders do. Easy to see from an objective perspective. Give it a try sometime!

How can two topics of mine reveal something when you can’t define what they reveal much less what my position on then actually is. Looks like you are accusing me of what you are doing. You have decided you understand my positions but clearly don’t and then from that bad data drawn erroneous conclusions. And since you won’t consider this as a possibility no progress can be made.

Don’t forget that what I say as enlightenment is knowing the truth about others by first seeing it in yourself. Enjoy your time telling me what I know about me and see in you but not the other way round.

You are an anti gun nut and a religious bigot. Relax about it. Not the end of the world, doesn’t make you evil or inferior to other more enlightened people. I have to get that word ‘enlightened’ as often as I cam because you see it as such a threat when all it is is knowing you don’t know in a world full of experts. Only in your world where self importance is the coin of the realm would a person claiming to know nothing be the egotist. Let me rub it in dude, I am more modest than you are. Hahahahaha on you.

 

[hal2kilo]

We should try to schedule fun secular activities during church time and invite would be church goers. I feel like a lot of people just go out of nothing better to do, kind of like baseball.

It makes them feel good about themselves for a week.

 

[hal2kilo]

Religion has done a huge disservice in regard to death.

Instead of being honest about death, children are told that they will one day see their grandmother in heaven. Pick the religon: Hinduism, Christanity, Islam, Judaism and even Buddhism. People are naturally fearful of death, and within every religion their is a promise of a heaven, and for the people who do wrong or sin there is hell. The truth is the universe does not care about us! In the grand scheme of life, we don't really matter. I'm not a nihilist in the sense that nothing matters, but within the time frame of the age of the earth (4.5b) and the universe (13.7b) we really don't matter. When we pass away our thoughts, goals, memories, family, etc. They are all going to vanish forever. That is a very difficult truth to process for many people. I was watching a video on YouTube about the 1940s. The people in the video were once alive. They once had goals, family, a career, and memories. All are now gone to time. Vanished forever. IMO, the Buddha was one of the only religious figures who told the turth about life. That the universe and our world is impermanent. That nothing last forever. Its the human experience. We grow up, get old, sick and die. That is our fate. And, it's this impermenance that causes us so much pain and suffering. Most people want to ignore this fact, and so religion fills that void. The dread of not being alive for eternity.

I've seen studies on people who fear death the most. What they found was the ultra religious, and the strong atheist feared death the least. It was the people who were in the middle who feared death the most. Also, the there are no atheist in fox hole argument has been debunked many times. The "you'll fear god on your deathbed" has been debunked. There have been plenty of atheist who have been on their death bed and they died as atheist. Christopher Hitchens, who was a staunch athiest, and who had written books like "God is Not Great" comes to mind. Also, stauch theist are atheist in regard to other religions. A Christian believes the Muslim, is wrong. The Muslim believes the Christian and Hindu is wrong. And so on... We are all atheist in that respect.

"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” ~Mark Twain.

I now know that I won't be dead dead, but it has nothing to do with these notions of god.

 

[Commodus]

I don’t think your belief system (or lack thereof) automatically prevents you from being compassionate or otherwise having a moral core. The danger is when you feel compelled to hurt others, or look for easy answers rather than the right ones.

I’ve heard the typical approach to religion described as the “god of the gaps.” That is, people operate on evidence-based reasoning until they encounter something they can’t immediately explain, and say “God did it.” They credit a deity when something goes their way, but don’t thank that deity when things go wrong.

That underscores the general nature of religion: it’s an attempt to answer questions that either don’t have answers or have unpleasant answers. Hence why many faiths are obsessed with how humans came to exist and what happens when we die. As a species, we’re uncomfortable admitting that we’re not special, that we have a limited lifespan, and that there are answers we don’t have and might never get.

 

[ch33zw1z]

How can two topics of mine reveal something when you can’t define what they reveal much less what my position on then actually is. Looks like you are accusing me of what you are doing. You have decided you understand my positions but clearly don’t and then from that bad data drawn erroneous conclusions. And since you won’t consider this as a possibility no progress can be made.

Don’t forget that what I say as enlightenment is knowing the truth about others by first seeing it in yourself. Enjoy your time telling me what I know about me and see in you but not the other way round.

You are an anti gun nut and a religious bigot. Relax about it. Not the end of the world, doesn’t make you evil or inferior to other more enlightened people. I have to get that word ‘enlightened’ as often as I cam because you see it as such a threat when all it is is knowing you don’t know in a world full of experts. Only in your world where self importance is the coin of the realm would a person claiming to know nothing be the egotist. Let me rub it in dude, I am more modest than you are. Hahahahaha on you.

A really long “no u”, wow, u sure showed me

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I don’t think your belief system (or lack thereof) automatically prevents you from being compassionate or otherwise having a moral core.

Considering all morality is subjective, this is entirely obvious. Religion is used far more to justify immorality than impose morality on those who otherwise wouldn't have it.

 

[Moonbeam]

A really long “no u”, wow, u sure showed me

There seems to be quite a difference between me showing you and you seeing it. There is a reason why internal bias, sometimes called bigotry, is defined by blindness. We have this problem of self hate that motivates us not to want to see. The greater the suppression of that recognition the truer this is.

 

[Commodus]

Considering all morality is subjective, this is entirely obvious. Religion is used far more to justify immorality than impose morality on those who otherwise wouldn't have it.

It should be obvious, but then I see so many people on either side insist that the other can’t have positive morality. Many religious people claim all morality is divinely given, and that atheists can’t possibly forge a moral code; some atheists believe religious people always have toxic moral attitudes. All morality is ultimately human-made, but there are religious devotees who are sincerely compassionate.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It should be obvious, but then I see so many people on either side insist that the other can’t have positive morality. Many religious people claim all morality is divinely given, and that atheists can’t possibly forge a moral code; some atheists believe religious people always have toxic moral attitudes. All morality is ultimately human-made, but there are religious devotees who are sincerely compassionate.

There are constructs within most religion that lend themselves to immorality but that definitely doesn't mean that all religious people are immoral.

 

[Moonbeam]

Considering all morality is subjective, this is entirely obvious. Religion is used far more to justify immorality than impose morality on those who otherwise wouldn't have it.

Except, of course, if morality were subjective, morality would not exist.

 

[ch33zw1z]

There seems to be quite a difference between me showing you and you seeing it. There is a reason why internal bias, sometimes called bigotry, is defined by blindness. We have this problem of self hate that motivates us not to want to see. The greater the suppression of that recognition the truer this is.

Sure Moonie, I think the self hate drum that you pound is pretty accurate sometimes. Not necessarily applicable here though.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Except, of course, if morality were subjective, morality would not exist.

Not really, we see the differences in people stated morality in day to day life, in history, all over the world. Very much subjective by person and people groups.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Except, of course, if morality were subjective, morality would not exist.

It doesn't exist, beyond our own definition of it. It's just actions we approve/disapprove of, in increasingly conflicting instances.

 

[Moonbeam]

Sure Moonie, I think the self hate drum that you pound is pretty accurate sometimes. Not necessarily applicable here though.

OK, but in my opinion the irrationality of human behavior is either understandable or it is not based on whether or not we account for our irrationality as something we do not want to look at. This notion can explain so many aspects of life that seem to be completely absurd absent this explanation.

For example it will illuminate the tendency to view anybody suggesting it is true, not as someone who has faced a lot of unpleasant facts about him or her self, but as someone trying to suggest they are better. Well, why would somebody with ego needs who has some awareness of his own ego needs and be better for knowing it tell someone else the secret of how to be better? We are talking here about feeling better knowing the source of one’s suffering is that we don’t actually feel all that great at all but knowing that the condition it is the result not of genetics, or God’s will, or cruel fate, but of the conditioning created by the psychologically sick world we grew up in.

 

[ch33zw1z]

OK, but in my opinion the irrationality of human behavior is either understandable or it is not based on whether or not we account for our irrationality as something we do not want to look at. This notion can explain so many aspects of life that seem to be completely absurd absent this explanation.

For example it will illuminate the tendency to view anybody suggesting it is true, not as someone who has faced a lot of unpleasant facts about him or her self, but as someone trying to suggest they are better. Well, why would somebody with ego needs who has some awareness of his own ego needs and be better for knowing it tell someone else the secret of how to be better? We are talking here about feeling better knowing the source of one’s suffering is that we don’t actually feel all that great at all but knowing that the condition it is the result not of genetics, or God’s will, or cruel fate, but of the conditioning created by the psychologically sick world we grew up in.

Ok cool, but how does apply to your emotional responses to guns and Jesus?

 

[Moonbeam]

Not really, we see the differences in people stated morality in day to day life, in history, all over the world. Very much subjective by person and people groups.

Check out the work of Jonathan Haight on his studies of areas of moral concern. One example here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory

 

[nOOky]

I'm an agnostic because by it's very definition "faith" assumes there is no way to know or prove if a god exists, hence followers have "faith" that there is something after death. Like I tell my religious relatives and friends, I can be a good person and not treat other people like shit on my own, not because I'm afraid of dying. The world would be so much better off if there were no religions that allow people to kill and treat other people horribly.

 

[Jaskalas]

81% is still way too high imo.

I would argue it remains 100%.
Just not on a single idea called "god".
Poll numbers on that idea may fall, but the underlying psychology behind it (tribal zealous fantasy) likely remains universal.