Being asked to be on-call when it wasn't part of your original job description

[KrillBee]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
is there an official SLA on the pager (time to respond)? if not, just take it but ignore it. then whoever officially has it will unofficially get in trouble

There is. It's 15 minutes.

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Is there any more $ involved? I make mad $ for my call time, it costs them a dollar a minute to call me in on weekends.

no extra $ involved.

Originally posted by: KLin
Is it worth your job fighting this battle?

I understand that bosses have the right to change someone's job description at will. But to ask someone to work weekends on top of their regular hours when that was never a part of the original agreement? That is crossing a line.

I will not let myself be walked over. I care more about working a job that has fair hours than I do one that pays better.

There are plenty of m-f 9-5 jobs that don't require one to work weekends.

Originally posted by: John P
If I were the boss everybody in the group including myself would take equal time with the pager. Perhaps throw that idea out, everybody needs to part of the team - not just "give the pager to the new guy".

Do you get paid OT when you get called "on call" or do you get a straight salary?

straight salary.

here's the thing, right now its just the level 2 people that are wearing the pager. Why can't everyone wear it? why not the sysadmins, the developers, the directory, the network people, etc. Anyone is capable of answering a phone. Our technology department has 20 people. Why are only 4 of them expected to have pager duty?

Originally posted by: Casawi
See this is where I kind of have a problem. If you are a direct employee, having the argument of it is not in my job description.... means IMO this person is not who I should hired, def. not the right attitude . I think it is a very good reason to let someone *you perhaps* go.
I am not saying this to be a dick, but I just hate people like that ...KrillBee not my job !

Part of your job description that is common sense is to be reliable.

One of the wireless printers is in my office, I think it looks really bad on me when someone comes to print something and there is no paper in it....? My job description is an Engineer not fill printer paper? Why do I do ? I don't know I never asked myself why...I am at work.
Cig breaks are also not part of ur job description if you smoked.

Whatever man, man up and do work u dont have to do.

I am alright with taking on more responsibility while at work, or doing different duties at work, but I am not alright with my boss changing my hours on me.
Asking be to be oncall during the weeknights and weekend is different hours.

If on-call duty were to be a new part of my job description, here is how I'd want it to be presented. I would like my boss to say "Your job is changing, here is your option, take it or leave us", and not try to sugarcoat it.

But that's besides the point, because there needs to be seperation between work and personal life. When someone is on call for an entire week every month, the seperation begins to diminish.

Why is it that a company with a 20 person IT department couldn't have hired at least 1 or 2 people with a specific purpose in mind to cover off hours? Management is trying to cut costs, and is doing so by putting the burden on the employees.

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
I've never heard a highly successful person refer to their own job description.

I don't think it's a coincidence.

I agree. However, the exception to this would be a consultant / contract employee. They are paid hourly. If they are required to carry and respond to a pager, they should be compensated even if it never goes off. Otherwise you are basically requiring them to do something for you (be available, within driving distance) without compensation.

I was a contractor for a full year. I never was on-call during this time, except for 1 saturday where I was on call, stayed at work and did projects while on call, and was paid hourly for it. My boss specifically told me that my job description would remain the same when I became hired on as salary.

Originally posted by: Kelemvor
Do you get compensation when you get a call? Everywhere I worked had something that you'd get comp time or extra pay or something if you actually got any calls. Or ask for a raise in order to work on-call since it wasn't something you were supposed to do.

In theory yeah. But what does that mean? If I spend 5 minutes checking the voicemail, I get 5 minutes of comp time?

Wearing the pager means you can't just go running outside for several hours (unless you take a pager and a cell phone with you), you can't just go swimming in a lake (because you wouldnt be able to hear your pager on the shore), it limits your weekend, it limits freedom. You can't drive out to some place in the country that has bad cell phone service, etc.

If I'm limiting my weekend only to get 1 call that takes 5 minutes to resolve, I should get more than 5 minutes of compensation because the entire weekend is affected by having to wear the dang pager and cell phone at all times.

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
usually off hours pager duty gets booted up the ladder not down, I'd ask that if this is going to be written into your job description that you'd also like on call pay for those hours.

what if you are salary?

Originally posted by: freegeeks
don't listen to people saying that you are a bad employee for refusing being on call. I was on call for 3 years. At average we had between 10 and 20 calls a week. I was an IPTV network engineer so every call was high priority. Basically it meant I was working 20 hours a day. I had to give up 25% of my personal life because people had problems watching stupid TV shows. I had to take my laptop everywhere with me and when I was not at home I had to make sure that I was in an area with good gprs coverage so I could set up my VPN. It sucked monkey balls and I left after 3 years.

Exactly. Being on call is no fun. I am a young man in my early 20s, the last thing I need to waste my evenings and weekends troubleshooting problems that people are having.

Originally posted by: scott


Lazy much? Grow up time?

(That's intentionally a little bit insulting to help you by shocking you outta that mind set.)

40 hours a week, mon - fri, daytime hours is pretty standard here in America. I didn't realize that this was considered lazy.
Are our entire lives supposed to revolve around work instead?

Originally posted by: loki8481
I've never actually worked a job with an official job description.

being on call comes with the territory of working in IT, especially if you're managing mission-critical boxes.

it's understood as part of my job that I'm on-call in an emergency, and I'm usually pretty good about it since I know that I'm the closest one to the office amongst the senior staff (whereas the other two have a 45-60 minute drive, I'm a 3 minute drive / 15-20 minute walk). of course, there are times when I just ignore the phone, and the line I take with my boss is, until the company starts providing or paying for my cellphone, they can't reasonably expect that it will always be in service, turned on, and in signal range.

if I were in the OP's situation, I'd probably talk about it with whoever the department manager is, find out which people are *really* the on-call bitches, why they're not doing it, and why you're expected to take on additional responsibility with no additional compensation, when the people who should be taking it refuse to.

I don't administer any servers or anything. I manage accounts, permissions, do desktop support, etc. I'm a level 2 person, not a level 3 person, and there is a reason for this. I don't want my life to revolve around work.

I'm afraid that if I bring the topic up with my boss then he'll try to make me do it. Sometimes its better to just not say anything, right?

Originally posted by: BoomerD

As I said in my original post, I'd do it, but ONLY if it came from management...and I'd dammed sure be renegotiating my wage/salary to compensate for the extra time/work involved.

The idea that you get paid $XXXX dollars per year...you do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you're told, and work ALL the hours we need you to without any extra pay borders on communism IMO...or maybe Robber Baron capitalism...sometimes, I'm NOT sure which is worse for the working man.

Agreed, extra compensation would be nice for putting in odd hours.

Unfortunately, how many salary jobs do you know of that operate this way?

 

[KrillBee]

I'm contemplating whether I should mention this to my boss at all.

I took the pager for this weekend because no one else could do it, but I made it very clear with my coworkers that this was a 1 time thing. Then one of them mentioned the rotation, and that's where I got the idea for this thread.

I already emailed my boss letting him know that I was taking it for this weekend, but from what I understood this was not something that I was expected to do on a regular basis.

I haven't heard back about that email yet, but he gets hundreds of emails daily.

If I speak with him in person, then he might try to get me to do it. If I ignore the issue entirely, it might just blow over. decisions, decisions....

 

[compuwiz1]

I wouldn't know anything about being on call. The way things have been economically, we eliminated a position because business could not sustain two of us working in equal capacity. Being fortunate to still have a job, I've had to suck it up and work 6 days per week. My average week is at least 65 hours and as many as 72. I very rarely get more than 1 day off per week and they'd never think of calling me in on my day off. With the hours I work, if they ever did try and call me in on a day off, they'd only do it once.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Personally, I would refuse the pager duty unless it came from your boss...but that's me.

The other people are just looking for someone else to dump it on...and most FNG's want to have the job so bad, they'll just roll over and let people walk on them in the spirit of getting along..."let's give it to Mikey...he'll eat anything!"

If the company wants to add it to your job description, then it should be a negotiable item since it involves extra work, usually outside your "normal working hours."

I realize lots of folks here are so used to having their heads so far up their bosses ass that if he turned fast, they'd break their necks...that they don't see anything wrong with doing whatever they're told, but that doesn't mean YOU should do it too. Most of the ATOT people apparently would go clean the office latrines if their bosses told them to...
Bunch of job-scared pussies.

HOWEVER, I worked union jobs nearly all my life, so I tend to be much more independently minded than most in the corporate world...

DO NOT take my advice unless you're ready and willing to quit over the issue.

Again, if your BOSS wants you to take on the pager-duty, it should be a negotiable item and you should receive extra compensation for it. I always received a MINIMUM of 2 hours overtime when I was on call for the local electric company,just for carrying the dammed pager, and if I actually started work, I got 4 hours of overtime.

And I would kindly tell you you don't have to work here anymore. You chose to work here, if you don't like it then leave.

It really is that simple.

f I was hired and being on call was not in my job description and then you try to push it on my it would not be necessary to fire me, I would leave myself. I don't want to work for shitty companies and shitty bosses

 

[jlazzaro]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Personally, I would refuse the pager duty unless it came from your boss...but that's me.

The other people are just looking for someone else to dump it on...and most FNG's want to have the job so bad, they'll just roll over and let people walk on them in the spirit of getting along..."let's give it to Mikey...he'll eat anything!"

If the company wants to add it to your job description, then it should be a negotiable item since it involves extra work, usually outside your "normal working hours."

I realize lots of folks here are so used to having their heads so far up their bosses ass that if he turned fast, they'd break their necks...that they don't see anything wrong with doing whatever they're told, but that doesn't mean YOU should do it too. Most of the ATOT people apparently would go clean the office latrines if their bosses told them to...
Bunch of job-scared pussies.

HOWEVER, I worked union jobs nearly all my life, so I tend to be much more independently minded than most in the corporate world...

DO NOT take my advice unless you're ready and willing to quit over the issue.

Again, if your BOSS wants you to take on the pager-duty, it should be a negotiable item and you should receive extra compensation for it. I always received a MINIMUM of 2 hours overtime when I was on call for the local electric company,just for carrying the dammed pager, and if I actually started work, I got 4 hours of overtime.

And I would kindly tell you you don't have to work here anymore. You chose to work here, if you don't like it then leave.

It really is that simple.

f I was hired and being on call was not in my job description and then you try to push it on my it would not be necessary to fire me, I would leave myself. I don't want to work for shitty companies and shitty bosses

when he was originally hired, he was a contractor with an hourly wage. as soon as he went to salary, the ball game changed.

i agree that he shouldnt accept the pager just because his co-workers said so. if it comes from upper management, bite the bullet and join the on-call rotation schedule.

 

[OptimisTech]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Personally, I would refuse the pager duty unless it came from your boss...but that's me.

The other people are just looking for someone else to dump it on...and most FNG's want to have the job so bad, they'll just roll over and let people walk on them in the spirit of getting along..."let's give it to Mikey...he'll eat anything!"

If the company wants to add it to your job description, then it should be a negotiable item since it involves extra work, usually outside your "normal working hours."

I realize lots of folks here are so used to having their heads so far up their bosses ass that if he turned fast, they'd break their necks...that they don't see anything wrong with doing whatever they're told, but that doesn't mean YOU should do it too. Most of the ATOT people apparently would go clean the office latrines if their bosses told them to...
Bunch of job-scared pussies.

HOWEVER, I worked union jobs nearly all my life, so I tend to be much more independently minded than most in the corporate world...

DO NOT take my advice unless you're ready and willing to quit over the issue.

Again, if your BOSS wants you to take on the pager-duty, it should be a negotiable item and you should receive extra compensation for it. I always received a MINIMUM of 2 hours overtime when I was on call for the local electric company,just for carrying the dammed pager, and if I actually started work, I got 4 hours of overtime.

And I would kindly tell you you don't have to work here anymore. You chose to work here, if you don't like it then leave.

It really is that simple.

...and in Junior High School (where that type of rationale belongs...) that probably works great!

In the larger world, however, this is just plain stupid. Treating employees this way is a self-defeating practice. Within a few years anyone who is genuinely talented, skilled and intelligent will get sick of your self-righteous attitude and leave for greener pastures. The ones who stay and put up with it will be those who are either unskilled, unmotivated or unintelligent. There are a LOT of IT departments like this, but that doesn't make it any better. If you want good people, you have to treat them well. If you want the leftovers, that's what you'll get. It really is that simple.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: OptimisTech
...and in Junior High School (where that type of rationale belongs...) that probably works great!

In the larger world, however, this is just plain stupid. Treating employees this way is a self-defeating practice. Within a few years anyone who is genuinely talented, skilled and intelligent will get sick of your self-righteous attitude and leave for greener pastures. The ones who stay and put up with it will be those who are either unskilled, unmotivated or unintelligent. There are a LOT of IT departments like this, but that doesn't make it any better. If you want good people, you have to treat them well. If you want the leftovers, that's what you'll get. It really is that simple.

Maybe I've just been jaded by corporate world too long, but the attitude from the top down and coming from the mouths of VP's of HR has always been the same tone when a department shifts direction, moves people around, etc. I remember when they shifted all the technical people into project management roles overnight. Many people didn't like this idea and didn't like where it was taking their career. They were dumb enough to voice their concerns in a large meeting. VP of HR put it very simply when they complained.

"you don't have to work here if you don't want to"

Not taking the pager and complaining about it is insubordination in my book.

 

[trmiv]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: OptimisTech
...and in Junior High School (where that type of rationale belongs...) that probably works great!

In the larger world, however, this is just plain stupid. Treating employees this way is a self-defeating practice. Within a few years anyone who is genuinely talented, skilled and intelligent will get sick of your self-righteous attitude and leave for greener pastures. The ones who stay and put up with it will be those who are either unskilled, unmotivated or unintelligent. There are a LOT of IT departments like this, but that doesn't make it any better. If you want good people, you have to treat them well. If you want the leftovers, that's what you'll get. It really is that simple.

Maybe I've just been jaded by corporate world too long, but the attitude from the top down and coming from the mouths of VP's of HR has always been the same tone when a department shifts direction, moves people around, etc. I remember when they shifted all the technical people into project management roles overnight. Many people didn't like this idea and didn't like where it was taking their career. They were dumb enough to voice their concerns in a large meeting. VP of HR put it very simply when they complained.

"you don't have to work here if you don't want to"

Not taking the pager and complaining about it is insubordination in my book.

How can you be insubordinate to your CO-workers?

I've actually had a similar situation to this, with a co-worker that liked to try to pass his crap to me. Before I even got a chance to mention it to my boss my boss mentioned it to me and told me "If he trys to continually pass off work to you, refuse it, he is NOT your superior. You can help out when you want to, but if it interrupts your normal work, tell him to do it himself."

 

[potato28]

Take a dump on your bosses desk and don't come in on calls?

 

[OptimisTech]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: OptimisTech
...and in Junior High School (where that type of rationale belongs...) that probably works great!

In the larger world, however, this is just plain stupid. Treating employees this way is a self-defeating practice. Within a few years anyone who is genuinely talented, skilled and intelligent will get sick of your self-righteous attitude and leave for greener pastures. The ones who stay and put up with it will be those who are either unskilled, unmotivated or unintelligent. There are a LOT of IT departments like this, but that doesn't make it any better. If you want good people, you have to treat them well. If you want the leftovers, that's what you'll get. It really is that simple.

Maybe I've just been jaded by corporate world too long, but the attitude from the top down and coming from the mouths of VP's of HR has always been the same tone when a department shifts direction, moves people around, etc. I remember when they shifted all the technical people into project management roles overnight. Many people didn't like this idea and didn't like where it was taking their career. They were dumb enough to voice their concerns in a large meeting. VP of HR put it very simply when they complained.

"you don't have to work here if you don't want to"

Not taking the pager and complaining about it is insubordination in my book.

Insubordination?!? How do you figure? He has already said these orders weren't from his boss, so there's no subordinate involved.

I've been in the corporate world for while myself, and the "keep your mouth shut and do what your told" crap is not the universal paradigm you make it out to be. I have encountered it from time to time, but never from anyone who anybody actually respected. Usually that kind of stuff comes from middle managers who realize they've risen as far as they are likely to go and now they're irritated about it.

In the case you mentioned it sounds to me like they wanted to shrink the department without paying compensation and ESC insurance costs, so they essentially dared folks to quit. That's pretty common in the corporate world too. It stinks, but in the end your better off unhitching your pony from that wagon anyway.

 

[child of wonder]

I'm a "Network Engineer" but work on servers all day.

Not that I mind, but obviously job titles and descriptions don't mean much.

 

[Jeff7]

At my illustrious Walmart job, one of the lines in my job description was, "Perform other duties as needed." Does yours have anything similar? By that line, they could probably have you scrubbing toilets.

 

[aceO07]

Originally posted by: KrillBee
I'm contemplating whether I should mention this to my boss at all.

I took the pager for this weekend because no one else could do it, but I made it very clear with my coworkers that this was a 1 time thing. Then one of them mentioned the rotation, and that's where I got the idea for this thread.

I already emailed my boss letting him know that I was taking it for this weekend, but from what I understood this was not something that I was expected to do on a regular basis.

I haven't heard back about that email yet, but he gets hundreds of emails daily.

If I speak with him in person, then he might try to get me to do it. If I ignore the issue entirely, it might just blow over. decisions, decisions....

Interesting situation. If you are repeatedly ask to perform this task by your coworkers after this one time, I'd bring it up with the boss and he can tell you to continue or not. At least then he will know about it and hopefully the review will reflect that you're doing extra.

It's not in anybody's job description "Lazy coworkers can pass unwanted tasks to you and you will perform them else you're fired".

 

[IGBT]

..arbitrator may rule against you if a "past practice" is already established and on-going.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Is there any more $ involved? I make mad $ for my call time, it costs them a dollar a minute to call me in on weekends.

same here. im salary, but if i get emergency calls on weekends or after hours its a minimum of 95/hr to talk to me, hour minimum. if i have to drive anywhere, its 4hr minimum. people are very sure they need to call me when they do.

 

[Rio Rebel]

The job description really isn't the point of contention here. It's the extra time / extra hours.

I would avoid pointing to the job description, but rather address the issue of extra hours with your boss. It's perfectly reasonable to question having weekend responsibilities added to your agreement, and it sounds a lot better than "that's not my job".

 

[cjchaps]

Originally posted by: KrillBee
I'm contemplating whether I should mention this to my boss at all.

I took the pager for this weekend because no one else could do it, but I made it very clear with my coworkers that this was a 1 time thing. Then one of them mentioned the rotation, and that's where I got the idea for this thread.

I already emailed my boss letting him know that I was taking it for this weekend, but from what I understood this was not something that I was expected to do on a regular basis.

I haven't heard back about that email yet, but he gets hundreds of emails daily.

If I speak with him in person, then he might try to get me to do it. If I ignore the issue entirely, it might just blow over. decisions, decisions....

If your manager says to have to be in the rotation there is probably no way of getting out of it. But you should try to get something out of it. Tell him that if you have the pager over the weekend you should get Friday off. OR suggest that instead of people working on a Friday work on a Sat instead so someone is in the office for the entire time. You have a good point in that if you have an SLA you can't do things you want to do. Also ask him what happens if you get in a car crash or something? The SLA is screwed because the company was too cheap to hire a 24 hour call center. If the manager gives you crap go to your HR department and discuss this with them. If you don't get anywhere find another job.

I was in your situation for a long time and I dealth with it but eventually got out of it and now am happier than I don't have to deal with it. Sometimes I am asked if I can be available for calls on the weekend and I accept but I also take off early that Friday to make up for it.

 

[KrillBee]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Is there any more $ involved? I make mad $ for my call time, it costs them a dollar a minute to call me in on weekends.

same here. im salary, but if i get emergency calls on weekends or after hours its a minimum of 95/hr to talk to me, hour minimum. if i have to drive anywhere, its 4hr minimum. people are very sure they need to call me when they do.

sounds like a good way to do it. If only more coorporations did it this way. Wait, they are too cheap.

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
The job description really isn't the point of contention here. It's the extra time / extra hours.

I would avoid pointing to the job description, but rather address the issue of extra hours with your boss. It's perfectly reasonable to question having weekend responsibilities added to your agreement, and it sounds a lot better than "that's not my job".

Good point. I will mention this if my boss brings this up to me.

Sometimes employers fail to understand that a 15 minute phone call on the weekend in the middle of a date isn't equal to 15 minutes of working during the work day.

For people who work during they week, they schedule the rest of their lives on the weekend. To me it would just make so much more sense to hire someone to be on call during the weekend, that way it doesnt ruin other peoples lives. Then the person who works on the weekend can do their fun things during their off days during the week.

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: Safeway
IT = On-call.

QFT. Lucky for me I get beeper pay, over time, and call back pay.

And it is in your job description, under "Duties as assigned".

 

[skace]

Don't listen to the people who are trying to paint you as a bad employee for questioning this. On-Call duty should always be treated very seriously, this isn't just something you jump into because dumbass is tired of receiving calls. Take it up with your boss and get it clearly defined, are you required to carry the pager with you at all times or is it a best effort approach? If it is all times, then you should be expected to be paid for that on call rotation. If it is a best effort approach, realize that you really don't have any fighting room, it is going to become part of your job but make sure you don't let it control your entire life.

Also, if it is best effort and you take it on, remember this when you go into your yearly reviews. If you don't get anything good out of your reviews, remind them that you took on efforts such as being on call with very few questions asked and if they don't budge shake their hands and tell them it's not going to work out. You have to be firm on these types of things because they might be testing the water on how much they can abuse you. Employee abuse does happen and managers will test you to see just how much they can get away with. If a manager can make you work 2 jobs and avoid hiring another person, they will, even if it isn't right.

 

[child of wonder]

Sounds like you need to talk to your boss and get this ironed out. Just be honest that you would prefer not having a pager because of the effect it will have on your personal life. Tell him you realize it's the company's right to assign tasks and duties as they see fit, but you're just voicing your opinion on the matter. If you are forced to take the pager, ask for a small raise to compensate. It doesn't hurt to try to negotiate something out of the situation.

Meanwhile, if your boss says you must take the pager, start looking for work elsewhere.

 

[Nik]

So either do it and stop whining or get a new job.

 

[TallBill]

We had an on call pager that recieved about 40 calls a week, but whoever had it made an extra $500 that week.

 

[abaez]

I think people are mixing being on call with being asked to assist on a project or do some extra work or something like that. Most normal people would probably not mind being asked to help with extra work or projects outside of their normal activities. A better than your average employee would probably seek out to help on things outside of his responsilibities from time to time.

But being on call? That's a completely different thing altogether imho. Like the op responded and realizes, your whole life is going to revolve around making sure you always have access to this pager. Going to see a movie? Make sure you bring it and keep it on (and possibly be interrupted during the movie). Want to go out to dinner or go to the bar? Same thing. It's a significant change in your job.

What I would do is maybe cover 3 or 4 times, and if it seems like it will become a recurring thing, bring it up with your boss, because it's obviously something that someone should be compensated for if it wasn't a part of your original routine/responsibilities.

 

[DawsonsDada]

I have worked in the IT field for more than 12 years now and whenever there was an SLA that said support/response was required after hours or on weekends then the pager was handed around and EVERYBODY took it for the time aloted.

I skipped most of this thread so it may have already been said. Anyway, IMHO,

1. You accepted the a position as a regular employee.
2. It is called "Additional duties as required". Deal with it.
3. If you don't want to be on the "on-call" rotation, look for another job somewhere else.