Bay Trail's not so bad... (N2830)

[Seba]

A brand name like Atom cant be used anymore in mobile, way too much bad PR.

There was nothing stopping Intel to use a new name, like Intel Molecule™ for Bay Trail CPUs.

Using Celeron and Pentium names for Bay Trail CPUs is deceiving (on purpose).

 

[Shivansps]

There was nothing stopping Intel to use a new name, like Intel Molecule™ for Bay Trail CPUs.

Using Celeron and Pentium names for Bay Trail CPUs is deceiving (on purpose).

And how people hows that "Intel Molecule" is worse?

This is really silly, there are Celeron and Pentium U/M/G before N ever existed, and the name was never a indication of performance in cross letters.

 

[Shivansps]

No, G470 Sandy Bridge was part of Intel's low-power budget processors aimed for the entry-level because it's a solo-core processor, priced less than $219.99 (before J1800 came out). The Ivy Bridge G1620 was the next upgrade from G470, priced at $279.99 area. Figuring that the production cost of the G470 was too expensive, it was quickly discontinued and replaced with J1800, and then G1620 Ivy Bridge was replaced to G1820 Haswell.

So the cheapest got slower by up to 50% (G470 -> J1800), while the next cheapest become 10% faster (G1620 -> G1820).

For example, Dell i660s-775BK with G470, sold for only $199.99 in late-2013. It was replaced to (but inferior) i3646-1000BK model with J1800 somewhere in early-2014, and sales are over 70% higher than the previous model.

Today for the Celeron/Pentium group, we have this: J1800<J1900<J2900<G1840<G3240<G3440. Make sense.

Again, that what OEMs do, J1800 was never intended to reemplace a big core in desktop at any price point, just the Cedar Trail Desktop.

 

[waltchan]

Again, that what OEMs do, J1800 was never intended to reemplace a big core in desktop at any price point, just the Cedar Trail Desktop.

J1800 was borrowed and revived from the Atom line, while it replaced the socketed LGA1155 G470 at the same time, since Intel needed a low-cost processor for OEMs until price reaches $99.99.

 

[Shivansps]

J1800 was borrowed and revived from the Atom line, while it replaced the socketed LGA1155 G470 at the same time, since Intel needed a low-cost processor for OEMs until price reaches $99.99.

I have no idea where you are getting that but no, at worse, J1800 and J1900 reemplaced ULV Ivy and Sandys on ITX format.

Ivy Bridge Celeron reemplaced Sandy Bridge Celeron way before J1800 even existed, in fact, Ivy bridge Celerons where already reemplaced by Haswell Celerons when J1800 launched.

G470 was long gone by the time BT launched.

And today, in desktop, J1800 compites with Sempron 2650, J1900 with 3850 and 5150, and J2900 with 5350, and thats it, the J2900 and 5350 kinda step on G1840/H81 prices, but thats all about it, there is no a "Intel reemplaced big core with atom in desktop".

 

[waltchan]

I have no idea where you are getting that but no, at worse, J1800 and J1900 reemplaced ULV Ivy and Sandys on ITX format.

Ivy Bridge Celeron reemplaced Sandy Bridge Celeron way before J1800 even existed, in fact, Ivy bridge Celerons where already reemplaced by Haswell Celerons when J1800 launched.

G470 was long gone by the time BT launched.

I'm describing what PC makers buy and sell for retailers, which equates to replacement cycle given the same price, not CPU form-factor and evolution.

I currently own a Dell i660s-775BK Celeron G470 that I paid only $199.99 sale on November 2013. Then this model was discontinued on February 2014, and Dell replaced it to i3646-1000BK with J1800 as the new model for 2014. Due to low-cost of production, this same model successfully ran over a year with no change.

I did buy and try the new i3646-1000BK before, but returned it because it's only half the speed from G470. It was also cheaply-made, no SATA III (my G470 has one using B75 chipset), and no internal power supply (only external).

Because of that, and my earlier saying why new computers are NOT necessary faster anymore, I'll be hanging on to my G470 for a while.

About me as a consumer, I'm a HUGE fan on buying only the cheapest PCs there are available. I'm not interested in looking any of the Core i3s and above.

 

[ninaholic37]

The N just marks it as a different family of products, just like the U does, the M does, etc... needless to say that a I3 M is better than a I5 U, a Celeron M is better than any Pentium U, etc.
If someone gona complain that a Celeron U is better than a Pentium N, you gona need to complain about every mobile lineup Intel has.

That's a good point.

 

[Shivansps]

I'm describing what PC makers buy and sell for retailers, which equates to replacement cycle given the same price, not CPU form-factor and evolution.

I currently own a Dell i660s-775BK Celeron G470 that I paid only $199.99 sale on November 2013. Then this model was discontinued on February 2014, and Dell replaced it to i3646-1000BK with J1800 as the new model for 2014. Due to low-cost of production, this same model successfully ran over a year with no change.

I did buy and try the new i3646-1000BK before, but returned it because it's only half the speed from G470. It was also cheaply-made, no SATA III (my G470 has one using B75 chipset), and no internal power supply (only external).

Because of that, and my earlier saying why new computers are NOT necessary faster anymore, I'll be hanging on to my G470 for a while.

About me as a consumer, I'm a HUGE fan on buying only the cheapest PCs there are available. I'm not interested in looking any of the Core i3s and above.

Yes, that what OEMs do, they go cheaper, that does not mean G470 was reemplaced by J1800.

 

[waltchan]

Yes, that what OEMs do, they go cheaper, that does not mean G470 was reemplaced by J1800.

You're right. G470 was a solo-core processor w/ hyperthreading feature with no direct replacement. We're supposed to see a Haswell LGA1150 solo-core HT today, but Intel has decided to use Bay Trail instead.

 

[Shivansps]

man, im not sure how to explain it to you anymore, Single cores are a no go, we are not on Windows XP era anymore. G4xx and G5xx where reemplaced both with Celeron G16x0 that was cheaper as hell, and G16x0 where reemplaced by G18x0 that are even cheapper than G16x0 ever was.

We dont need anything slower than the G1820 on 1150, there is not such thing as a missing single core Haswell.

For the 238123th time, J1800 and J1900 reemplaced Cedar Trail and AT WORSE, the big core ULVs on ITX format.

 

[ninaholic37]

For the 238123th time, J1800 and J1900 reemplaced Cedar Trail and AT WORSE, the big core ULVs on ITX format.

I think Intel's goal was to "move up" Bay Trail to places Atom was never meant to go before, which is one reason why they changed the names to Celeron and Pentium. It's not much different than what AMD is doing with their sneaking jaguar/puma up the ladder into "mainstream". I think there was an entire thread about this once. The obvious gain being that it's cheaper for Intel and AMD, and many people might not notice because their old computer got so bloated from not re-formatting for 6 years that a small core might still feel just as fast.

 

[waltchan]

man, im not sure how to explain it to you anymore, Single cores are a no go, we are not on Windows XP era anymore. G4xx and G5xx where reemplaced both with Celeron G16x0 that was cheaper as hell, and G16x0 where reemplaced by G18x0 that are even cheapper than G16x0 ever was.

We dont need anything slower than the G1820 on 1150, there is not such thing as a missing single core Haswell.

For the 238123th time, J1800 and J1900 reemplaced Cedar Trail and AT WORSE, the big core ULVs on ITX format.

Celeron G470 is a single-core processor with hyperthreading (2 threads total in 1 core), and works like a dual-core most of the time. It is technically a Core i3 but with one core missing, clocked 1.0GHz lower, and no Intel HD2000 graphics.

That's another reason why it was discontinued, cost too much to produce, and the unattractive "solo" word is always a hard-sell, despite its decent performance rating.

But it still performs over 50% percent faster than Celeron J1800 dual-core and J1900 quad-core, due to its strong single-thread performance. Adjust to its rating today, it is a Pentium 4 HT processor clocked at 5.5GHz.

 

[waltchan]

Took home another cheapest new PC, a HP laptop with AMD E1-6010 1.35GHz for $188 to replace my sluggish, previous E1-2100 1.00GHz. What a nice improvement, single-thread score bumped to 484 in E1-6010 from 361 in E1-2100. E1-6010 is now over 2x faster than C-50. With Carrizo coming out soon, I should expect to see around 525 single-thread score for the next, lowest-end E1 model.

AMD has come a long way since the very-first C-50 notebook APU came out in 2011 (which I voted it as the worst CPU ever in the other thread). Owned all of these below, and each one that replaced is faster than the previous.

C-50 (2011) < C-60 (2012) < E1-2100 (2013) < E1-6010 (2014) < E1-Carrizo (pending) (2015).

Compare Beema to Bay-Trail, Intel is going SLOWER for each cheapest model it replaces. We are going to see Atom x3 in laptops very soon, about 20% slower than Bay-Trail.

So, I may be more impressed with AMD right now than Intel for the sub-$200 laptop market.

 

[ninaholic37]

So, I may be more impressed with AMD right now than Intel for the sub-$200 laptop market.

I haven't seen any AMD laptops for under $200 after the C50/60. I remember looking for some before and even the A4-1250 ones were $350-450 here. D:

 

[waltchan]

I haven't seen any AMD laptops for under $200 after the C50/60. I remember looking for some before and even the A4-1250 ones were $350-450 here. D:

There's a refurb HP 15.6" E1-2100 going for $178 right now at Fry's Electronics (they're selling pretty well to my surprise, all these refurbs came from Walmart as store returns). "Because it's too slow," says one Walmart customer.

A4-1250 wasn't part of AMD's entry-level processors, so it was priced a little more. It goes by this in-order:

E1<E2<Sempron<A4<A6<Athlon<A8<A10<FX

 

[ninaholic37]

A4-1250 wasn't part of AMD entry-level processors, so it was priced a little more. It goes by this in-order:

E1<E2<Sempron<A4<A6<Athlon<A8<A10<FX

Ah, I thought the A4-1250 was the successor of the C50/60/70, and E1-2100 was the successor of the E-350/450. Hmmm... too many confusing name changes to keep track of. :awe:

 

[waltchan]

Ah, I thought the A4-1250 was the successor of the C50/60/70, and E1-2100 was the successor of the E-350/450. Hmmm... too many confusing name changes to keep track of. :awe:

This is the correct successor list in-order yearly:

C-50 (2011) < C-60 (2012) < E1-2100 (2013) < E1-6010 (2014) < E1-Carrizo (pending) (2015).

I keep track of the lowest-of-the-lowest end market pretty well.

 

[ninaholic37]

edit: tl;dr version...

I learned that A4-1250 and E1-2100 are pretty much the same chip. lol

 

[Shivansps]

WHAT?! Impressed with WHAT? a big core FX-7500 petty much gets the same CPU score of a N3540...

 

[Shivansps]

Ah, I thought the A4-1250 was the successor of the C50/60/70, and E1-2100 was the successor of the E-350/450. Hmmm... too many confusing name changes to keep track of. :awe:

Thats correct, AMD Temash (A6-1450, A4-1250, A4-1200) reemplaced AMD Ontario (C-30, C-50, C-60, C-70), and its now reemplaced by AMD Mullins.

E1-2100 is part of the Kabini family that reemplaced AMD Zacate family(E-350 to E2-1800).

And Kabini was now reemplaced by Beema.

 

[waltchan]

Thats correct, AMD Temash (A6-1450, A4-1250, A4-1200) reemplaced AMD Ontario (C-30, C-50, C-60, C-70), and its now reemplaced by AMD Mullins.

E1-2100 is part of the Kabini family that reemplaced AMD Zacate family(E-350 to E2-1800).

And Kabini was now reemplaced by Beema.

The AMD Temash were targeted on 12" slim notebooks who need the longest battery life. They weren't that cheap, over $350 since beginning. They are part of "Elite" mobile. Now today, AMD realize that these APUs can only target the low-end market, hence E1-2100's spec was borrowed from Temash.

E1-2100 is still available for purchase in ITX form. It is cheaper and slower than Sempron 2650 AM1.

 

[Shivansps]

Nah, the problem was the netbook era was over by the time Temash launched, Temash targeted Netbook and tablets, just like Ontario did, the problem was that it became premium touch netbooks by them. There was several A4-1250 and 1200 devices for $300 or just under.

E1-2100 while it is a bit tricky because its 9W, it looks nothing more than a cheap Kabini to me, just like the E-240 and E-300 where cheap Zacates.

 

[Abwx]

WHAT?! Impressed with WHAT? a big core FX-7500 petty much gets the same CPU score of a N3540...

Or exactly the same score as an Haswell.?.

Core i3-4020Y

Cinebench R11.5 CPU Multi 64Bit
1.63 Points

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Toshiba-Satellite-W30t-A-101-Convertible-Review-Update.119960.0.html

And no, it s not a 11.5W chip given the 37W max power comsumption.

 

[Shivansps]

So its better than a tablet with a Haswell Y... i need to applud or something? the fact that a BT can match it in MT having the same number of cores while its officially the AMD equivalent to U processors is just no good. We are taling about the same number of cores here, BT is small core, Kaveri is big core...

Its the same scenario for the N3540, it can be better in MT than Celeron and Pentiums U, but its gona get murdered by an I3...

Actually i kinda suprised of the high MT performance of BT, it does not seem to suffer so much like the big cores on small tdp.

 

[Abwx]

So its better than a tablet with a Haswell Y... i need to applud or something? the fact that a BT can match it in MT having the same number of cores while its officially the AMD equivalent to U processors is just no good. We are taling about the same number of cores here, BT is small core, Kaveri is big core...

Its the same scenario for the N3540, it can be better in MT than Celeron and Pentiums U, but its gona get murdered by an I3...

Actually i kinda suprised of the high MT performance of BT, it does not seem to suffer so much like the big cores on small tdp.

Small cores have better perf/watts than bigger designs like Haswell or Kaveri when power is limited, and the link i posted is not a tablet, it s a laptop using a Haswell Y pushed to extreme TDP to get the same results than a BayTrail, or lower than a Beema.

For instance try to find an Haswell that score like the Beema below while only consuming 23.8W, there s an equivalent Haswell comparison at 29.7W.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-13-a093na-x360-Convertible-Review-Update.130928.0.html

Same laptop but with an Haswell U :

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-13-a000ng-x360-Convertible-Review.127351.0.html