Bay Trail's not so bad... (N2830)

[Enigmoid]

Small cores have better perf/watts than bigger designs like Haswell or Kaveri when power is limited, and the link i posted is not a tablet, it s a laptop using a Haswell Y pushed to extreme TDP to get the same results than a BayTrail, or lower than a Beema.

For instance try to find an Haswell that score like the Beema below while only consuming 23.8W, there s an equivalent Haswell comparison at 29.7W.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-13-a093na-x360-Convertible-Review-Update.130928.0.html

Same laptop but with an Haswell U :

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-13-a000ng-x360-Convertible-Review.127351.0.html

Still going on about this nonsense when your links don't even support your claim?

While idle, the power consumption of the Pavilion is below 10 Watt - just like the sister model's. But, they perform differently during the stress test. The Pavilion's consumption of 23.8 Watt is lower than the sister model's (29.7 Watt). The reason is found quickly: The processor of the AMD model is throttled, while the Intel model's isn't.

Beema throttles to 1.4 ghz on the CPU under the stress test. The i3 model does not throttle (NBC doesn't have full numbers for the i3U model but they state no throttling).

Not to mention you are comparing the very best binned beema chip vs. a low bin GT2U haswell.

A far as battery life, Beema has an edge in idle life however during wifi load they last the same amount of time.

 

[Abwx]

Still going on about this nonsense when your links don't even support your claim?



Beema throttles to 1.4 ghz on the CPU under the stress test. The i3 model does not throttle (NBC doesn't have full numbers for the i3U model but they state no throttling).

Not to mention you are comparing the very best binned beema chip vs. a low bin GT2U haswell.

A far as battery life, Beema has an edge in idle life however during wifi load they last the same amount of time.

First there s no screen capture of the haswell stress test, second the Cinebench scores are the same, and 3 haswell always use all possible power when the GPU is not used wich say that it use more power when running CB, indeed it s correlated if there s no throttling...

 

[Enigmoid]

First there s no screen capture of the haswell stress test, second the Cinebench scores are the same, and 3 haswell always use all possible power when the GPU is not used wich say that it use more power when running CB, indeed it s correlated if there s no throttling...

1. Invalidates your previous points.

2. meaningless without context.

3. Need to show proof. Its an i3U with low clocks, other models clock nearly twice the speed in the same TDP.

 

[Abwx]

1. Invalidates your previous points.

2. meaningless without context.

3. Need to show proof. Its an i3U with low clocks, other models clock nearly twice the speed in the same TDP.

Clock is 1.9 and with no turbo, that s interesting since there s not the usual heavy boost over rated TDPs while the laptop is still cold, this on is close to the official TDP..

This Haswell consume 30% more than the Beema to get same perfs on MT, i accounted 1W for the fan because it spin harder at 43dB on the haswell laptop, surely a prove that it heat no more than its counterpart wich is at 37dB or so...

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-13-a093na-x360-Convertible-Review-Update.130928.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-13-a000ng-x360-Convertible-Review.127351.0.html

 

[Enigmoid]

Clock is 1.9 and with no turbo, that s interesting since there s not the usual heavy boost over rated TDPs while the laptop is still cold, this on is close to the official TDP..

This Haswell consume 30% more than the Beema to get same perfs on MT, i accounted 1W for the fan because it spin harder at 43dB on the haswell laptop, surely a prove that it heat no more than its counterpart wich is at 37dB or so...

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-13-a093na-x360-Convertible-Review-Update.130928.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-13-a000ng-x360-Convertible-Review.127351.0.html

But you are not getting the same perfs. Efficiency really requires performance/power, not performance for one thing divided by the power of another. Or at the very least an aggregate measure of performance and a typical workload's power consumption.

NBC already said that Beema throttled to 1.4 ghz during that test. Comparing performance in CB vs. 70% clockrate in another application is disingenuous at best, compounded by the fact that we don't know the i3's clocks during the stress test (NBC says no throttling and they define throttling as falling below base clocks so it would be possible to assume 1.9 ghz however, we do not know the igp clocks).

NBC's numbers are difficult to use as they don't really measure power for a given task, only the maximum power that the system is capable of using. Running CB on the notebook uses dramatically less power, and comparisons are not valid, especially if Prime95 AVX2 (not sure for NBC) is being used on one system and not on the other.

 

[waltchan]

What about the Celeron 2957U or 2961Y (11.5W)? Clock speed and GPU are clocked lowest, perhaps maybe these are the most energy-efficient Haswell processor you can find on idle.

 

[waltchan]

Was researching more on Asus laptop models and its replacement, and the last entry-level Asus 15.6" model with a Core i processor was the Celeron 1007U Ivy Bridge. Asus never release any Celeron Haswell, and immediately move on to Bay Trail.

I own a Asus X551CA Celeron 1007U I paid only $199.99 1.5 years ago that gets only 68 customer reviews on Amazon as of today. Now, the new Celeron N2830 model it replaced explosively increase to 1,390 customer reviews

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...S1K3MZYB36VT7M

That's over 1,300% increase in sales. I guess buyers don't care if a Bay Trail Celeron dual-core is over 70% slower than 1007U, as long as it's a cheap price.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Was researching more on Asus laptop models and its replacement, and the last entry-level Asus 15.6" model with a Core i processor was the Celeron 1007U Ivy Bridge. Asus never release any Celeron Haswell, and immediately move on to Bay Trail.

I own a Asus X551CA Celeron 1007U I paid only $199.99 1.5 years ago that gets only 68 customer reviews on Amazon as of today. Now, the new Celeron N2830 model it replaced explosively increase to 1,390 customer reviews

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...S1K3MZYB36VT7M

That's over 1,300% increase in sales. I guess buyers don't care if a Bay Trail Celeron dual-core is over 70% slower than 1007U, as long as it's a cheap price.

As stated a bunch of times, we're at a point of good enough performance. Usually in this order, price, form factor, screen, and performance are what's most important to the buyer.

My roommate wanted an upgrade from her old MacBook to something with extra long battery life, compact, and a usable keyboard. She used my wife's ASUS X205 (bay trail 3735F) and immediately wanted it if it was priced right. $199 later and it's her everything PC. Office, Netflix, Chrome, all of it runs very well on a quad core. Mobile devices going from an 11w cpu to a 2-3w cpu goes a long way in power consumption.

The "enthusiast" community is so far away from what the vast majority of people do with their computers. If it wasn't for battery life concerns I'd have just picked up a C2D laptop and slapped the second to fastest low-power CPU the socket can take, similar to what I did with the laptop in sig.

 

[ninaholic37]

Was researching more on Asus laptop models and its replacement, and the last entry-level Asus 15.6" model with a Core i processor was the Celeron 1007U Ivy Bridge. Asus never release any Celeron Haswell, and immediately move on to Bay Trail.

I own a Asus X551CA Celeron 1007U I paid only $199.99 1.5 years ago that gets only 68 customer reviews on Amazon as of today. Now, the new Celeron N2830 model it replaced explosively increase to 1,390 customer reviews

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...S1K3MZYB36VT7M

That's over 1,300% increase in sales. I guess buyers don't care if a Bay Trail Celeron dual-core is over 70% slower than 1007U, as long as it's a cheap price.

Wow, that 15.5" Asus is actually #1 on Amazon "Best Sellers" right now:

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-E...nk_430974202_5

And a newer model of it is #4 and #6

I wonder what #1 was 1.5 years ago? Probably a Chromebook.

 

[waltchan]

Wow, that 15.5" Asus is actually #1 on Amazon "Best Sellers" right now:

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-E...nk_430974202_5

And a newer model of it is #4 and #6

I wonder what #1 was 1.5 years ago? Probably a Chromebook.

I see this Asus Celeron N2830 all the time. It is indeed a really big seller. In fact, our local Micro Center computer store sell this for $199.99 daily since summer of last year.

I must say, I'm not a biggest fan of Asus laptop. Currently, I have a Asus Celeron 1007U needing a new operating system because the recovery partition is damaged. I plan to refresh it and put in Windows 8.1 with Bing. Asus's recovery partition backup is the hardest to make a copy, and many times it likes delete itself if upgrading from Windows 8 to 8.1.

1.5 year ago, 15.6" laptops were around $269.99 on average, and not all poor consumers can afford to buy their first laptop. Asus was one of the best-sellers, but produced 1,300% fewer PCs. Now the poor people got one with their Bay Trail. They don't know what's fast or slow as long as it works.

 

[Vesku]

Was researching more on Asus laptop models and its replacement, and the last entry-level Asus 15.6" model with a Core i processor was the Celeron 1007U Ivy Bridge. Asus never release any Celeron Haswell, and immediately move on to Bay Trail.

I own a Asus X551CA Celeron 1007U I paid only $199.99 1.5 years ago that gets only 68 customer reviews on Amazon as of today. Now, the new Celeron N2830 model it replaced explosively increase to 1,390 customer reviews

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...S1K3MZYB36VT7M


That's over 1,300% increase in sales. I guess buyers don't care if a Bay Trail Celeron dual-core is over 70% slower than 1007U, as long as it's a cheap price.

Why would a non-techie think it was slower when it lists itself like this:

"Latest Generation Intel Dual Core"

 

[jpiniero]

Last time I checked the Amazon best sellers list for laptops there was only one Core product on there.

 

[waltchan]

Last time I checked the Amazon best sellers list for laptops there was only one Core product on there.

Intel Bay Trails now generate 80% of sales since mid-2014. We are shifting towards tablet processors instead of (higher-cost) notebook processors.

 

[waltchan]

Asus Celeron Bay Trail is heating up on price:

http://www.microcenter.com/product/...op_Computer_-_Black?rf=Search+Results+Feature

Now $179.99 (brand new).

 

[waltchan]

Asus Celeron Bay Trail is heating up on price:

http://www.microcenter.com/product/...op_Computer_-_Black?rf=Search+Results+Feature

Now $179.99 (brand new).

Looks like I'm picking one up today. I have a Asus Celeron 1007U (Asus's last Celeron laptop w/ real notebook processor) that I need to refresh and restore by swapping out its hard drive to Window 8.1 with Bing instead. Then I'll sell the new Asus N2830 for some profit on eBay.

 

[Shivansps]

Im not sure you can do that, Windows will be not be activated.

 

[waltchan]

Im not sure you can do that, Windows will be not be activated.

It's absolutely possible. I double-check to make sure both are X551MA models using the same chassis frame. Then I copy down the product key in the Asus 1007U, make a recovery USB drive from new Asus N2830, and then re-install Windows 8.1 with Bing into the 1007U. Then I reactivate Windows using a different product key found in original.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It's absolutely possible. I double-check to make sure both are X551MA models using the same chassis frame. Then I copy down the product key in the Asus 1007U, make a recovery USB drive from new Asus N2830, and then re-install Windows 8.1 with Bing into the 1007U. Then I reactivate Windows using a different product key found in original.

If all you need is the recovery media, why not download it from MS, and burn to USB? It's free.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-reset-refresh-media

 

[waltchan]

If all you need is the recovery media, why not download it from MS, and burn to USB? It's free.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-reset-refresh-media

I want all the original Asus software, games, and all the junk. I don't delete them. That's why a minimum processor in laptops should NOT be a tablet processor. Celeron 1007U is the lowest I'll go. With Celeron N2830 tablet dual-core, I know it's going to be a "painful" experience.

 

[waltchan]

Received my Sunday weekly newspaper ads today, and it's cruel and sad to hear that my local electronic store is liquidating out all the Celeron 2957U Haswell notebooks, which is reported to be the final-edition Celeron "notebook quality" processor. Dell was the only manufacturer to offer a 2957U, and this model has been out of production since Fall 2014.

http://www.frys.com/product/8369057?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

So, what's new and coming in the "tablet" processor game. D:

 

[HexiumVII]

Are the new baytrails is the N2840 Celerons at least faster than Core 2 Duo's?

 

[coercitiv]

Are the new baytrails is the N2840 Celerons at least faster than Core 2 Duo's?

Nope - http://www.hardware.fr/articles/921-7/vs-core-2-duo-e6600-core-2-quad-q6600.html

 

[Shivansps]

Last time i checked a Z3735D was exactly the same as a E2200 in MT, so, no.

 

[sxr7171]

That's partially because Microsoft software is extremely bloated. Once I switched from Microsoft Visual Studios to Code::Blocks and Dev C++ and got rid of IE and Microsoft Office, my Atom N2600 went from slow to awesome. I'm hoping that Microsoft was forced to improve their software efficiency for the Windows 8/8.1 era so their products could go into Tablets without people wanting to throw their windows devices out the window though.

This is something I can't figure out. I have a Toshiba Encore Mini that I paid $75 for. It has 1GB RAM and somehow it runs. It's not fast but it works decently well. So I assumed Win 8.1 and other MS software is optimized at this point.

Then I got myself a Core i5 Broadwell Laptop and cheaped on the RAM at 4GB given my experience with the Encore. When using IE11 I get constant low memory errors. A Core i5 5200u somehow cannot run IE11 without freezing or lagging or hitching. Switched back to Firefox and all my issues are solved. It's shocking how you can throw a good deal of power at some MS software it still runs like a dog.

As for Office I keep it installed and actually use only Outlook. But a picture of the Office logo should be in the dictionary next to the word "bloated". Having used Mail on Mac and coming back to Outlook it's amazing how complicated they have made the act of checking and reading email. The interface is so busy and their are so many options and drop downs and menus that it's enough UI complexity for a flight simulator - all to simply check, read and respond to email.

I haven't used the Metro Mail app yet because Metro is hopeless for trackpad use. However I think it's probably a good app, but I think the Metro side is where all the new thinking and software efficiency design is going. I think all of those apps are designed to run fine on Atom class HW.

 

[Vesku]

My guess is that the Windows 8.1 with Bing found on the tablets has less of the performance eating options on by default.