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U571 was about the capture of an enigma device from a German U-boat.
As far as the firepower of a battleship, it really is impressive. The news agencies told stories of how the Iraqis learned to give up to reconn drones before getting pounded by the big guns. Even thought the Model 50's (the 16" gun model) are rated for 300 rounds they were fired for twice that many with reduced loads and they still were durable enough for more shots. I'm sure the limit was for using both hardened (armor piercing) and hot rounds, not just any rounds, being that the hardened shells wear away barrels faster than the soft skinned exploding shells.
I just think there is something "romantic", so to speak, about battleships. I've got just as much respect for the men of a battleship as any pilot that flew a dogfight during WW1. Men would go into battle with their lives souly staked on the quality of their machines and how they worked with them as a team. They trusted in the potency of their own machine even when the enemy had bigger guns or more speed than their own. You might even say men loved those machines as if they were their own wives.
As far as the firepower of a battleship, it really is impressive. The news agencies told stories of how the Iraqis learned to give up to reconn drones before getting pounded by the big guns. Even thought the Model 50's (the 16" gun model) are rated for 300 rounds they were fired for twice that many with reduced loads and they still were durable enough for more shots. I'm sure the limit was for using both hardened (armor piercing) and hot rounds, not just any rounds, being that the hardened shells wear away barrels faster than the soft skinned exploding shells.
I just think there is something "romantic", so to speak, about battleships. I've got just as much respect for the men of a battleship as any pilot that flew a dogfight during WW1. Men would go into battle with their lives souly staked on the quality of their machines and how they worked with them as a team. They trusted in the potency of their own machine even when the enemy had bigger guns or more speed than their own. You might even say men loved those machines as if they were their own wives.
- Oct 30, 2000
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Exactly what Madrat just said.
I live in NC, and in a few years, they're going to uproot the USS North Carolina and tow it to Norfolk and drydock it to do some LONG overdue maintenance to the hull.
If there is a way to ride that ship while it's being towed, or get a job working on it for the trip, I am THERE.
BTW, there was no battleship action at Midway. Planes only.
There was US vs. Japanese battleship action at Guadalcanal, and at Surigao Strait.
I live in NC, and in a few years, they're going to uproot the USS North Carolina and tow it to Norfolk and drydock it to do some LONG overdue maintenance to the hull.
If there is a way to ride that ship while it's being towed, or get a job working on it for the trip, I am THERE.
BTW, there was no battleship action at Midway. Planes only.
There was US vs. Japanese battleship action at Guadalcanal, and at Surigao Strait.
Madrat, as Dave said, the USS NC is a memorial, open to the public.
The only battleships actually mothballed are the Iowa and Wisconsin. The Wisconsin is open to the public in Virginia. You can tour the upper decks only. Since the ship is in inactive reserve, all the interior spaces are sealed and dehumidified.
I've been on it, and you can get upstairs maybe one level, and only a little bit of that. Pretty much you can only walk around the deck. Of course, it's a BIG deck.
Iowa is in San Francisco.
The only battleships actually mothballed are the Iowa and Wisconsin. The Wisconsin is open to the public in Virginia. You can tour the upper decks only. Since the ship is in inactive reserve, all the interior spaces are sealed and dehumidified.
I've been on it, and you can get upstairs maybe one level, and only a little bit of that. Pretty much you can only walk around the deck. Of course, it's a BIG deck.
Iowa is in San Francisco.
Lithium381
Lifer
- May 12, 2001
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the superdreadnaught is dead, but the things are still awesome. at least we still have ours to call up if theres an invasion or some coastal targets need pounded. quite a bit cheaper than aircraft carrier ops for that sorta thing... just steam around 10 miles out from the coast and hit anything within 5 miles of the beach. awesome.
- Oct 30, 2000
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<<The Japanese had battleships at Midway>>
<<They lost the battleship Konga>>
You might want to read those links yourself.
That was the battleship KONGO, and it was not lost at Midway. From your link:
<< The Kongô was finally sunk on 21 November 1944 by the submarine Sealion, SS-315, in the waters off Taiwan.>>
Midway was in 1942.
Yes, the Japanese had battleships at Midway..........but they didn't do anything. There was no surface-to-surface ship action. The opposing fleets never saw each other.
<<In 2000, they located the wreckage>>
Um, might want to read that link, also. That wreck is the KAGA, which was and aircraft carrier, not a battleship.
<<The US did not have battleships participating at Midway >>
Technically, no, our battleships did not sail with the carrier task force that battled the Japanese, but we did have several old battleships stationed between our carrier fleet and Pearl Harbor as backup in case the Japanese got by them.
The Japanese also lost one heavy cruiser at Midway, the MIKUMA. It collided with its sister ship the MOGAMI. Both had to reduce speed, and were found by our planes the next day and Mikuma was sunk.
- Oct 14, 1999
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That link on the Nort Carolina was pretty interesting. Hard to believe they could fire each barrel every thirty seconds.
I wonder what they could design with today's technology. The army is trying to scuttle the 40-ton, 155mm Crusader artillery system. The 155mm is roughly a 6-inch gun, small by the standards of battleships, but nonetheless very deadly. The system was designed to fire 10-12 rounds per minute out to a range of 30 miles. The actual system was able to initially fire 10 rounds in a minute or to coordinate the delivery of eight on top a single target (at half the range) where all eight arrived simultaneously, making the enemy believe there was more than one gun aimed their way. Sustained fire rates of ten per minute lasted for the first three minutes and then barrel heating would slow the rate down to 3-6 rounds per minute. While not as potent as the battleship guns I'm sure that the weapon system could be fitted to frigates or smaller warships, making it much less costly. The navy could afford to make a handful for deployment to trouble spots far cheaper than to take a battleship out of mothball service. In effect it would be like the AC-130 gunship concept of the air force, specialized firepower only where its needed.
Still not as romantic as a battlewagon, but we cannot reactivate them forever.
Lets summarize the movies so far:
Battle of the River Plate (1956)
In Harm's Way (book?)
Victory at Sea (DVD or VHS)
Sink The Bismarck! (1960)
I wonder what they could design with today's technology. The army is trying to scuttle the 40-ton, 155mm Crusader artillery system. The 155mm is roughly a 6-inch gun, small by the standards of battleships, but nonetheless very deadly. The system was designed to fire 10-12 rounds per minute out to a range of 30 miles. The actual system was able to initially fire 10 rounds in a minute or to coordinate the delivery of eight on top a single target (at half the range) where all eight arrived simultaneously, making the enemy believe there was more than one gun aimed their way. Sustained fire rates of ten per minute lasted for the first three minutes and then barrel heating would slow the rate down to 3-6 rounds per minute. While not as potent as the battleship guns I'm sure that the weapon system could be fitted to frigates or smaller warships, making it much less costly. The navy could afford to make a handful for deployment to trouble spots far cheaper than to take a battleship out of mothball service. In effect it would be like the AC-130 gunship concept of the air force, specialized firepower only where its needed.
Still not as romantic as a battlewagon, but we cannot reactivate them forever.
Lets summarize the movies so far:
Battle of the River Plate (1956)
In Harm's Way (book?)
Victory at Sea (DVD or VHS)
Sink The Bismarck! (1960)
Therein lies the problem. The days of building specialized weapons systems are over. It is no longer feasible to build these kinds of weapons systems. Multi-mission platforms with extreme configuration flexibility is the answer, whether it is DD(X), CVN(X), Virginia class subs, joint strike fighter, the V-22, Trident SSGN,etc. These platforms are flexible, multi-mission platforms that are going to deploy with much reduced manning and commmercial off-the-shelf (COTS) technology that is going to make them extremely cost efficient (relatively) and give the theatre commanders more options to engage the enemy.
I have always had a spot reserved in my heart for Battleships . I think Bismark was the best battleship in WW2. Sure, There were bigger ships (like Yamato. That thing was HUGE!), but I think Bismark had the best overall design, and it was lethal (as demonstrated by the number of ships Royal Navy send to destroy it)
. I think Bismark was the best battleship in WW2. Sure, There were bigger ships (like Yamato. That thing was HUGE!), but I think Bismark had the best overall design, and it was lethal (as demonstrated by the number of ships Royal Navy send to destroy it)
- Oct 14, 1999
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When I was little that movie "Sink the Bismarck!" really turned me on to battleships. When the HMS Hood blew up I was like "whoa!" It seems that this was pretty early in the war, like 1941, so in reality this ship was already obsolete by the time of its loss. The Bismarck probably wouldn't have survived an engagement with an American South Dakota or Iowa class of battleship. She just didn't have the technology to hit targets beyond range of visual spotters. American and Japanese ships were ahead of the game when it came to radar for targeting, basing their whole designs around these types of engagement. Only the American designs were heavy in the anti-aircraft armament, something no other navy seemed to provide for thier battleships. It also looks like the Bismarck had not been designed to engage destroyers, the vulnerability that seems to have led to the destruction of her bridge to a Polish destroyer. The American designs were built not only to take on airplanes but to make it futile for lighter craft, like torpedo destroyers, to even attempt an engagement against the beasts.
I think "Victory at Sea" is probably what I am looking for at this time. If anyone comes up with any new titles please still post them!
I think "Victory at Sea" is probably what I am looking for at this time. If anyone comes up with any new titles please still post them!
That could be debated. But I don't care
. Bismarck was the most remarkable ship in the war IMO, and the courage and skill of her crew still amazes me. In the end, Bismarck fought alone against two battleships and two heavy cruisers (not to mention several destroyers) . In the end, it was shot repeteadly from a point-blank-range, and it still refused to sink. All in all, Bismarck was pouned for 74 long minutes. 2,876 shells were fired at Bismarck (Only counting the battleships and heavy cruisers. With many of the shells hitting their target, since in the end, just about every shot they fired hit due to the short range), ranging from 13.3 cm to 40.6 cm.That is why Bismarck is always the nr. 1 for me
- Oct 14, 1999
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If its any consolation to you, my old high school buddy and I used to play a battleship game featuring the New Jersey against the Bismarck. He was from a 50% german background so he always chose that name for his ship. The ships were just "paper boats" folded out of tin foil, later reinforced with multiple layers or card stock paper or replaced with all sorts of fancy dancy ship-like models made out of household junk. The ocean was a golf pond; we roosted from his deck overlooking the pond on mid-summer afternoons when there were few golfers... thank God! I had a Daisy .177 bb gun and he had a Crossman .22 bb gun. He had an advantage using a high powered scope and I used a bare sight or unpowered scope whenever we tangled. I was a much better shot, obviously, but the raw power of the .22 did my ships in more often than not. Amazingly the "tin foil" boats could take several hits before they either were too mangled to stay afloat, or the perfect shot hits its peak and popped the air bubble that saved the boats from most hits.
<<The Bismarck probably wouldn't have survived an engagement with an American South Dakota or Iowa class of battleship. She just didn't have the technology to hit targets beyond range of visual spotters.>>
This is true. In fact, the North Carolina class most likely could have taken the Bismarck out due to superior fire control and bigger guns.
The Bismarck was probably the best 15" gun ship ever built, though. It wasn't really a technological marvel, it was basically an enlarged version of the WWI Bayern class ships.
It did have the German trademark extreme compartmentalization and good looks.
The Hood was obsolete and had no business taking on the Bismarck. The Hood was a battlecruiser, not a battleship.....big ship, big guns, not much armor.
The Iowa class is the most complete battleship ever built. Speed, protection, firepower.
I still wish that Halsey would've turned Admiral Lee loose in the Phillipines to go after the Japanese ships instead of keeping them with the carriers.
Our fast battleships would've gone against the Yamato and several other battleships and cruisers.
THAT would have been a surface battle to remember.
This is true. In fact, the North Carolina class most likely could have taken the Bismarck out due to superior fire control and bigger guns.
The Bismarck was probably the best 15" gun ship ever built, though. It wasn't really a technological marvel, it was basically an enlarged version of the WWI Bayern class ships.
It did have the German trademark extreme compartmentalization and good looks.
The Hood was obsolete and had no business taking on the Bismarck. The Hood was a battlecruiser, not a battleship.....big ship, big guns, not much armor.
The Iowa class is the most complete battleship ever built. Speed, protection, firepower.
I still wish that Halsey would've turned Admiral Lee loose in the Phillipines to go after the Japanese ships instead of keeping them with the carriers.
Our fast battleships would've gone against the Yamato and several other battleships and cruisers.
THAT would have been a surface battle to remember.
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