Yep, exactly...
Actually, they fired 12 missiles, 2 from under each wing of the half dozen bombers. Still, you're not counting the sea wiz on the destroyers and crusiers (yep, they have them too), the Standard Missiles, the Sea Sparrows, the F-14s and F/A-18s, the AWACS airplanes, etc.
Grasshopper
I've got 5 spent shells from the seawiz. They have the links on them and it makes a nice pen holder. I wonder how radioactive it still is?
If it is from the past 10 to 15 years, probably not at all. The old ammo was depleted uranium, but the Block 1 (or was it block 2?) cores were replaced with tungsten.
Grasshopper
if you want to be a history grad student, in addition to copious references to eschatology, scatology, teliology, and filiopatriotic thought. In addition, you'd comment that the construction of the bismark is revelatory of the demographic/political trends in postwar europe, and (if you want to go off the deep end) that it's a freudian western attempt to compare wee-wees by building the biggest ship and if you're really much more clever than i, think of how it subjugates non-europeans.
anyway that's my rant for today. thanks for the heads up
anyway that's my rant for today. thanks for the heads up
Good show, very enlightening.
All this time I was under the impression that it was the guns from KG5 and Rodney that sunk her.
The brits fired over 2800 rounds at her, 700 larger than 14". Of the 700 large rounds only 4 penetrated the hull and none penetrated her 13" armour belt. The conclusion of the naval architects on the show was that those 4 big bore rounds and the torpedo hits from Dorsetshire weren't enough to bring her down. Conclusion, they scuttled her.
All this time I was under the impression that it was the guns from KG5 and Rodney that sunk her.
The brits fired over 2800 rounds at her, 700 larger than 14". Of the 700 large rounds only 4 penetrated the hull and none penetrated her 13" armour belt. The conclusion of the naval architects on the show was that those 4 big bore rounds and the torpedo hits from Dorsetshire weren't enough to bring her down. Conclusion, they scuttled her.
I would have liked to see the battle royal match between the Yamato vs Bizmark vs Missouri For sure the Missouri would have wooped ass......... better guns, better targeting & better speed
Cheers,
Aquaman
For sure the Missouri would have wooped ass......... better guns, better targeting & better speed Cheers,
Aquaman
A battleship thread is not complete without this link.
Who's the Baddest of Them All?" Battleship comparison
Novgrod
I was following you until "think of how it subjugates non-europeans."
The Bismark was built to fight in the North Sea. That allowed the Germans to use much more armour and compartilzmentation in their battleships than other countries.
The story of rangefinders and how the British had allowed themselves to be outclassed by the German equipment is also interesting.
Who's the Baddest of Them All?" Battleship comparison
Novgrod
I was following you until "think of how it subjugates non-europeans."
The Bismark was built to fight in the North Sea. That allowed the Germans to use much more armour and compartilzmentation in their battleships than other countries.
The story of rangefinders and how the British had allowed themselves to be outclassed by the German equipment is also interesting.
Novgrod
I was following you until "think of how it subjugates non-europeans."
The Bismark was built to fight in the North Sea. That allowed the Germans to use much more armour and compartilzmentation in their battleships than other countries.
The story of rangefinders and how the British had allowed themselves to be outclassed by the German equipment is also interesting.
sorry; i went off the deep end a little. if you want to be a good history grad student, it helps to look at everything europeans have done in the past couple hundred years as a method of subjugating non-europeans. this means that somehow wwii was a battle over whom would be able to dominate non-europeans for the rest of the 20th century, which is of course bs, but it's the best thing i could think of on short notice So you can see how much of a challenge it is to make the bismark out to be a ship built to subjugate non-europeans. i think you could make a dissertation out of it though.
though i can't really blame them, there's not much left to write.
I was following you until "think of how it subjugates non-europeans."
The Bismark was built to fight in the North Sea. That allowed the Germans to use much more armour and compartilzmentation in their battleships than other countries.
The story of rangefinders and how the British had allowed themselves to be outclassed by the German equipment is also interesting.
sorry; i went off the deep end a little. if you want to be a good history grad student, it helps to look at everything europeans have done in the past couple hundred years as a method of subjugating non-europeans. this means that somehow wwii was a battle over whom would be able to dominate non-europeans for the rest of the 20th century, which is of course bs, but it's the best thing i could think of on short notice
So you can see how much of a challenge it is to make the bismark out to be a ship built to subjugate non-europeans. i think you could make a dissertation out of it though.though i can't really blame them, there's not much left to write.
If you say so, but I served on a carrier for 2 years, I recall one night, in gale force winds and 10'+ seas the captian tired of the Russian Kresta class crusier that was tailing us. They cranked up the boiler and ran away at 30knots. On the surface ONLY a carrier can do 30 knots in those conditions, perhaps we has a sub with us. The Kresta and our poor tin cans were left way behind that night. Never say never.
How true. My bro's little destroyer always gets spanked by those plutonium boilers. Ever see a carrier do 40 knots and not break a sweet? His ship usually leaves port before the big guy just so that they can get to the same place at the same time.
The crusiers can do it to, their gas turbine engines produce an impressive amount of power when run flat out. Unlike the nuclear reactor however, they don't like to be run flat out, it gets expensive.
In a time of war, they could keep up. For what it's worth, those carriers can do quite a bit more than 30 knots as well, again only in a time of war...
Grasshopper
The destroyers can usually keep up but it sure isn't pleasent riding on one in high seas.
I tended to get a little nervous when I had one foot on the wall and one on the floor, seasick too if we had to do it for more than a day.
I should add, that yes a carrier could run away and leave us, they are fast and I was on an old late 50's era destoyer.
I tended to get a little nervous when I had one foot on the wall and one on the floor, seasick too if we had to do it for more than a day.
I should add, that yes a carrier could run away and leave us, they are fast and I was on an old late 50's era destoyer.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
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MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
- 307
- 126
Grasshopper, I think you really meant to say that they were fired from TU-22M Backfire bombers, not Su-24 Fencers. The movie was based on a book from the mid-1980s, I believe, so the story line was prety tired by the time it was made. You definitely don't mean the Tu-22 as it was a horribly different design altogether.
Linflas
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2001
- 15,395
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- 91
Someone should have told that to the Soviet "fishing" trawlers that used to follow our carriers around the entire time they were in the Med. There was also a game that was played when you first arrived in the area of Rota, Spain where the Soviets would send out one of their recon planes and the carrier would launch a couple of fighters to go up and hang around the recon plane.
The Yamato had 18" guns. If one of THOSE shells hit the Missouri or Bismarck, look out! That would be one hell of a matchup though, damn...
Bulk Beef
Diamond Member
- Aug 14, 2001
- 5,466
- 0
- 76
Pretty good show. I had never heard the German contention that the ship was scuttled, but it certainly seemed reasonable.
I've always thought that this battle was fascinating, especially in the way it, even more than Pearl Harbor (I think), signaled the end of the line for the battleship.
I've always thought that this battle was fascinating, especially in the way it, even more than Pearl Harbor (I think), signaled the end of the line for the battleship.
rudder
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2000
- 19,441
- 86
- 91
Originally posted by: Novgrod
if you want to be a history grad student, in addition to copious references to eschatology, scatology, teliology, and filiopatriotic thought. In addition, you'd comment that the construction of the bismark is revelatory of the demographic/political trends in postwar europe, and (if you want to go off the deep end) that it's a freudian western attempt to compare wee-wees by building the biggest ship and if you're really much more clever than i, think of how it subjugates non-europeans.
anyway that's my rant for today. thanks for the heads up
aaack its moonbeams twin brother!
AdamK47
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 15,782
- 3,606
- 136
The reason why I said it was taken down so easily is that the torpedoes that took out the rudders on the Bismark were launched by flimsy biplanes carrying one torpedo max. After that, when the Bismark turned around, there were ships ready to intercept her and take her down.
From the link provided earlier.......... the US 16 inch gun was just as good as the Japanese 18 inch gun
GENERAL COMMENTS: The Japanese 18.1"/45 reigned supreme as the most destructive piece of naval ordnance ever mounted afloat. However, its ballistic performance was not particularly inspiring, and the performance of its Type 91 shells was inferior to the norm, partly because they were optimized for underwater trajectories 7. Immediately below it in terms of power is the US 16"/50. Good ballistics, and superb shells, give this gun a tremendous whallop, and in combat terms I rate it as the equal of the Japanese weapon, largely because of its shells. Below that, in an upset, comes Richelieu's 15"/45, as the best all-around 15" gun, and feel the most useful in an actual combat situation. The Italian 15"/50 was an enormously potent weapon from a raw power perspective, but it sacrificed a lot in order to achieve that performance, and had decidedly inferior shells. I should note, though, that I am still investigating this particular gun and her shells in more detail; the information available on her shells is rather spotty. Bismarck's 15"/47 shell is 10% lighter than the French and Italian, although her cyclic rate is attractive, and her guns were very accurate. At the bottom of the spectrum, King George V's 14" gun clearly doesn't have nearly the oomph necessary to compete with the rest of these guys.
Cheers,
Aquaman
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