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Battery Heater

N

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Are battery heaters worth the cost of purchasing and using? The gf's car wont start nowadays due to the cold weather without a jump. Battery is three years old and climate is typical New Hampshire, last few mornings were -10 around here. Trying to gauge whether a new battery is in order or if we should get a battery warmer that plugs into the house overnight. Anybody have experience with these things and can recommend one?
 
Better, I would think, to get a basic trickle charger. Charge battery and warms it a little at the same time.
I have a 1.5amp I put on my car every now and then as I don;t drive it enough and it work fine on cold days.
 
If it's not starting at -10, I'd replace the battery. Mine started hard this morning but it was -25..

Whereabouts in NH?
 
jlee said:
If it's not starting at -10, I'd replace the battery. Mine started hard this morning but it was -25..

Whereabouts in NH?
Click to expand...

Manchester. Im thinking that if the battery needs to be replaced and we get a new one, a heater would extend the life of it, since it wouldn't have to work so hard to crank the engine. At least that is what my research has shown so far...
 
if you're needing a jump most days, you've probably ruined the battery in the car by now.

If you don't want to deal with worrying about your battery, perhaps invest in a deep-cycle. They are designed to be run flat without damage to the battery, so if you let the car sit for two weeks in the cold and the battery goes flat, it won't be ruined.
 
LordMorpheus said:
if you're needing a jump most days, you've probably ruined the battery in the car by now.

If you don't want to deal with worrying about your battery, perhaps invest in a deep-cycle. They are designed to be run flat without damage to the battery, so if you let the car sit for two weeks in the cold and the battery goes flat, it won't be ruined.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what happened. Vacation for 3 weeks and nobody touched the car for three weeks in the cold. Just returned this past weekend and the car wont start without jump starts on really cold mornings. It still starts fine once the engine has had a chance to pump some juice back into the battery...but maybe your are right about ruining it.
 
putting a charger on it the night before would take care of it, and an engine heater is a nicer option if you are going to be messing with plugging anything in. 'Tis a thing of beauty to see a partially defrosted window on a cold morning🙂
 
NetWareHead said:
That is exactly what happened. Vacation for 3 weeks and nobody touched the car for three weeks in the cold. Just returned this past weekend and the car wont start without jump starts on really cold mornings. It still starts fine once the engine has had a chance to pump some juice back into the battery...but maybe your are right about ruining it.
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If it hasn't been charged since then, try putting a battery tender on it for a day. It sounds like it might be toast, though...but you can get one at WalMart for about 20 bucks. From the research I was doing before I bought it, it seems to be a great model for the money. I'd let you borrow one of mine but it might cost you more in gas to drive to Lebanon and back. 😛

Mine was flat after leaving a dome light on for 3 days (oops). I jumped it, drove it home and charged it. That was a few weeks ago and it's been fine since. I did put the battery tender on it yesterday just to be safe (with the -31f forecast for last night), though.
 
jlee said:
If it hasn't been charged since then, try putting a battery tender on it for a day. It sounds like it might be toast, though...but you can get one at WalMart for about 20 bucks. From the research I was doing before I bought it, it seems to be a great model for the money. I'd let you borrow one of mine but it might cost you more in gas to drive to Lebanon and back. 😛

Mine was flat after leaving a dome light on for 3 days (oops). I jumped it, drove it home and charged it. That was a few weeks ago and it's been fine since. I did put the battery tender on it yesterday just to be safe (with the -31f forecast for last night), though.
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Lol yeah quicker to Walmart than to Lebanon. For $20 you can't go wrong. May be able to replace the battery after the cold season with a little bit of luck using this battery tender. Thanks for all suggestions...
 
How much does the battery heater cost? A new, tier 2 battery with a 5 year warranty can be had in the $60 range with a core refund. At some point you will need a new battery anyway, so if you buy the heater (no idea what they cost) you're just compounding the cost of a new battery when you do get one
 
My car would not start this morning, so I got it jumped by my landlord. It was -2 outside. I was thinking about putting more distilled water in the battery (mazda 3's have a maintenance OEM batteries), but spending $55 on a new battery is much better than finding out my car will not start tomorrow morning.

Just a word of advice for Mazda 3 owners, you can get a size 24N or 35 battery. Get the 35. The 24N is such a tight squeeze due to the cables. It fits fine once it is in, but getting it in was not the easiest task. I broke the little tab that hold my battery cover 🙁
 
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I'm always shocked when places like autozone have no-questions-asked battery warranties. Every battery I've ever had go bad on me has been my own fault for being lazy enough to let it sit, dead, for a stretch of time.

I finally felt bad enough about getting free replacements for them that I upgraded to an Optima Yellowtop. This one I can let die without destroying, and maybe I'll even take better care of it.
 
Hello, I noticed your conversation and wanted to offer some assistance. When a battery is discharged to the point where it needs to be jump-started, it is a good idea to fully recharge the battery with a battery charger as soon as possible. Most alternators are designed to maintain batteries, not recharge deeply-discharged batteries. Asking an alternator to perform that function can lead to a cycle of dead batteries and jump-starts, until either the battery or alternator fails.

Fully-charged, our YellowTops are protected from freezing down to -30F and our RedTops are protected down to -50F. The key to that statement is “fully-charged.” Most vehicles have a key-off load (parasitic draw), which slowly discharges the battery, even when the vehicle is parked. Radio presets, car alarms, satellite radio, OnStar and other accessories can all draw current and slowly discharge a battery. A new battery can mask a parasitic draw for a period of time, but if the draw is significant enough and the alternator cannot keep pace with the discharge, battery problems will surface again. This video explains how to measure a parasitic draw.

If a vehicle is parked long enough and/or frequently driven on short trips that do not give the alternator enough time to recharge the battery, it will gradually discharge over time. This makes a quality battery tender or maintainer an excellent investment, which will help extend the life of any battery. If using a maintainer is not an option, disconnecting a fully-charged battery is a reasonable alternative.

LordMorpheus, retailers are supposed to charge and check all batteries returned under warranty, although that doesn't always happen. As a result, many of the “bad” batteries returned to us are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly recharged. Battery warranties are not supposed to start over every time a battery is returned, although that doesn't always happen either, depending on who is working behind the counter. If anyone has any questions about our batteries, I'll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
 
OptimaJim said:
Hello, I noticed your conversation and wanted to offer some assistance. When a battery is discharged to the point where it needs to be jump-started, it is a good idea to fully recharge the battery with a battery charger as soon as possible. Most alternators are designed to maintain batteries, not recharge deeply-discharged batteries. Asking an alternator to perform that function can lead to a cycle of dead batteries and jump-starts, until either the battery or alternator fails.

Fully-charged, our YellowTops are protected from freezing down to -30F and our RedTops are protected down to -50F. The key to that statement is “fully-charged.” Most vehicles have a key-off load (parasitic draw), which slowly discharges the battery, even when the vehicle is parked. Radio presets, car alarms, satellite radio, OnStar and other accessories can all draw current and slowly discharge a battery. A new battery can mask a parasitic draw for a period of time, but if the draw is significant enough and the alternator cannot keep pace with the discharge, battery problems will surface again. This video explains how to measure a parasitic draw.

If a vehicle is parked long enough and/or frequently driven on short trips that do not give the alternator enough time to recharge the battery, it will gradually discharge over time. This makes a quality battery tender or maintainer an excellent investment, which will help extend the life of any battery. If using a maintainer is not an option, disconnecting a fully-charged battery is a reasonable alternative.

LordMorpheus, retailers are supposed to charge and check all batteries returned under warranty, although that doesn't always happen. As a result, many of the “bad” batteries returned to us are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly recharged. Battery warranties are not supposed to start over every time a battery is returned, although that doesn't always happen either, depending on who is working behind the counter. If anyone has any questions about our batteries, I'll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
Click to expand...

What do you do with these returned batteries? Do you offer 'refurbished' batteries? 😉 lol
 
all batteries are pretty much "refurbished" as it is, because we just keep recycling the lead over and over.

your old battery can be taken to any auto shop and they will send it in for recycle. (grind them down to a pulp, extract the lead)

i too got tired of weak starts on cold mornings. a battery charger worked fine most of the time, i would just leave it plugged in overnight... but then there were times i simply didnt have the option to plug it in, if i wasnt home.

so i went the extreme route and bought an AGM battery (the kind the military uses). branded sears platinum, it was $230 after taxes (i decided this over a video card). these batteries dont freeze, and they have a lower internal resistance so the parasitic drain doesnt hurt as much. its self discharge rate is also much lower then normal batteries. only had it for a few months yet, so well see how it lasts but most say that you can expect at least 7 years of life before they show signs of wear.
 
AGM batteries typically require a charger designed for them. You must not overcharge an AGM battery.

Many new vehicles come with AGM batteries, but they also have their charging systems designed for the AGM battery.

AGM batteries should not be discharged below 50%, so when you buy one, it needs to be larger.
 
LordMorpheus said:
if you're needing a jump most days, you've probably ruined the battery in the car by now.

If you don't want to deal with worrying about your battery, perhaps invest in a deep-cycle. They are designed to be run flat without damage to the battery, so if you let the car sit for two weeks in the cold and the battery goes flat, it won't be ruined.
Click to expand...

Deep cycle batteries are not designed to be primary batteries for starting vehicles.
 
skykingsan, I appreciate the kind words and the welcome. Eli, unfortunately, we cannot re-sell returned batteries, but it's safe to say no one around here ever spends any money buying new batteries. Wirednuts, while many batteries do use recycled lead, all of our batteries (and most AGM batteries) use virgin lead in their construction. Any battery will freeze if you put it in cold enough temperatures, especially if it is not fully-charged.

I cannot speak for other manufacturers, but Optima AGM batteries do not require a special charger and they can be discharged below 50%, although we do not recommend leaving them deeply-discharged for extended periods of time. As LordMorpheus indicated, our YellowTop batteries are true dual purpose batteries, designed for both starting and deep-cycle applications. Most battery chargers work just fine on Optimas, but “gel” or “gel/AGM” charger settings should be avoided, as gel batteries are very different from AGM batteries and those charger settings may not fully-charge an Optima and could damage it over time.


Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
 
Marlin1975 said:
Better, I would think, to get a basic trickle charger. Charge battery and warms it a little at the same time.
I have a 1.5amp I put on my car every now and then as I don;t drive it enough and it work fine on cold days.
Click to expand...

no
no
no
no

Your intentions are good, but the cold cranking amps of a battery has NOTHING to do with how charged the battery is. It has everything to do with the construction of the battery. A starting battery uses a spongy electrode material with very high surface area in order to get high ampacity. A "deep cycle" battery can have the exact same amp-hour charge capacity, but significantly lower cranking amps because the deep cycling battery uses more of a solid plate construction which has less surface area.

Cheap batteries look more like the deep cycle design. They just use solid plates sitting in solution and they suck balls. The battery that came with my Toyota Corolla says it's only rated for 390 CCA, which is so shitty that you can't even buy that kind of battery in a store.
What the OP really needs is a better battery. Don't look at amp-hours since that tells you nothing. Just look at the cold cranking amps (or CCA) and buy the one with the highest value. I said my Corolla came with a 390 CCA battery, but I saw one battery in a store that was rated for 650 CCA and it was the same size battery. It's very likely the OP's car has a terribly shitty battery since cars almost always come with shitty batteries and the replacement batteries people buy are shit because most people don't understand why one battery is $60 and another of the exact same size for the same car would be $90. One can start a car when it's -40 and the other won't.


Instead of buying a battery warmer, just use the block heater that came with the car. Instead of increasing the current capacity of the battery, you heat parts of the engine so the starter motor can operate with less current. It's the same basic thing. You probably can't just use both because the electrical circuits used for parking lots often have current limiters and timers in them. Both the Canadian and US electrical codes allow for lower quality wiring to be used if car circuits have timers or current limiters, so the result is that most of them do.
 
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i feel like posting twice in a row :awe:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_battery
An automotive battery is a type of rechargeable battery that supplies electric energy to an automobile.[1] Usually this refers to an SLI battery (starting, lighting, ignition) to power the starter motor, the lights, and the ignition system of a vehicle’s engine. This also may describe a traction battery used for the main power source of an electric vehicle.
....
The starting (cranking) or shallow cycle type is designed to deliver large bursts of energy, usually to start an engine. The SLI batteries usually have a greater plate count in order to have a larger surface area that provides high electric current for short period of time. Once the engine is started, they are recharged by the engine-driven charging system.
...
The deep cycle (or motive) type is designed to continuously provide power for long periods of time (for example in a trolling motor for a small boat, auxiliary power for a recreational vehicle, or traction power for a golf cart or other battery electric vehicle). They can also be used to store energy from a photovoltaic array or a small wind turbine. They usually have thicker plates in order to have a greater capacity and survive a higher number of charge/discharge cycles.
..
Batteries intended for starting, lighting and ignition (SLI) systems are intended to deliver a heavy current for a short time, and to have a relatively low degree of discharge on each use. They have many thin plates,thin separators between the plates, and may have a higher specific gravity electrolyte to reduce internal resistance. Deep-cycle batteries have fewer, thicker plates and are intended to have a greater depth of discharge on each cycle, but will not provide as high a current on heavy loads.
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This is why you avoid using a deep cycle battery for starting a vehicle. Deep cycle batteries are intended for slow gradual drain, which is the exact opposite of what a car battery does. You drain the car battery for a couple seconds while starting it then it relies on the alternator.

Vehicles that use deep cycle batteries will often have sets of deep cycle batteries hooked in parallel. My parents RV uses 2 large deep cycle batteries for starting the engine because neither battery is strong enough to cold start the engine.


The other alternative is to buy a booster kit. I got one on sale last week for $70. It's a 500 CCA booster battery with a built in air compressor. OP could also lend his GF a spare battery and she can boost her own car until a new battery is purchased. Even after you get a new battery, you could always keep the old one around just as a booster. It might not be enough to start a vehicle by itself, but it might be enough to boost a vehicle that already has a battery.
 
I really wouldn't be interested in a "dual purpose" battery. It likely doesn't do either job as well as the proper battery for the job. Use the battery meant for the job.
 
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