Baton Rouge’s Rich Want New Town to Keep Poor Pupils Out

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
1
0
ii9FmQueerAY.jpg



In East Baton Rouge Parish, Louisiana, middle-class and wealthy neighborhoods want an educational divorce from a neighboring community where four out of 10 families live in poverty.

Saying they want local control, they’re trying to leave the 42,000-pupil public-education system. They envision their own district funded by property taxes from their higher-value homes, which would take money from schools in poorer parts of state-capital Baton Rouge, home of Louisiana State University. They even want their own city.

Similar efforts have surfaced in the past two years in Georgia, Alabama, Texas and Tennessee, some of them succeeding as the end of court-ordered desegregation removed legal barriers. The result may be a concentration of poverty and low achievement. A 2012 report by ACT, the Iowa-based testing organization, found only 10 percent of low-income students met college benchmarks in all subjects, less than half the average.

“It’s going to devastate us,” said Tania Nyman, 45, who has two elementary-age children in the Baton Rouge system. “They’re not only going to take the richer white kids out of the district, they are going to take their money out of it.”

U.S. educational funding varies by state, often relying heavily on local taxes. The South, once notorious for segregated schools, by 2011 had the nation’s second-narrowest funding disparity among districts, according to a study by the Federal Education Budget Project, a Washington-based research organization that is an offshoot of the nonpartisan New America Foundation.

Dropping Further

Louisiana, however, scored worst in the nation, according to the study. A December report by three LSU economics professors found that breaking up the East Baton Rouge Parish school system would depress total per-pupil spending to $8,870 from $9,635. It would rise to $11,686 in the breakaway district.

Eighty percent of the current district’s students are black, and 82 percent poor enough to qualify for free or reduced school meals. Nyman and other district boosters say a split would set a dire precedent.

“Every affluent community in the state will want to create their own little school system,” said Carnell Washington, president of the East Baton Rouge Federation of Teachers.“They are taking money away that would help the entire school system and the entire city.”

Opting Out

Backers of the split, whose website is called Local Schools for Local Children, say the district has been failing for at least a dozen years, with some schools performing so poorly that the state took them over. In the 2011-2012 school year, six of 10 students attended a school ranked failing or almost failing by the state and the drop-out rate was 20 percent, according to Baton Rouge Area Chamber, a business group.

“Baton Rouge is one of the best job markets around, and the middle class is moving out,” said Republican state Senator Mack “Bodi” White. “Those who stay have their kids in private schools.”

About 30 percent of children within district lines were in private schools in 2009, according to Tulane University’s Cowen Institute for Public Education Initiatives.

White and other supporters say a split’s impact has been exaggerated, in part by estimates that assume a new district will pay nothing toward the current one’s retirement obligations, which they say they would share.

They also say an influx of state money would buoy the students and teachers left behind: “Nothing will happen to them,” said Lionel Rainey III, 36, a public-relations consultant who is the seceding group’s lead spokesman.

Poorer Still

James Richardson, director of the Public Administration Institute at LSU, who researched a split, said the remaining district will get more state dollars because it will have more impoverished children, but that won’t replace lost revenue.

The researchers assumed the new district would pay no retirement obligations because there has been no binding proposal for sharing them, he said.

Horacio Aldrete, a Dallas-based Standard & Poor’s managing director who studies school finance, warned of risk for both sides. A reduced tax base and declining enrollment could hurt the remaining district, while a smaller newcomer would lose efficiencies of scale as it hires superintendents and staff, he said. The splinter system may have to build schools and raise taxes if pupils migrate from private education, he said.

Baton Rouge is among several metropolitan areas where affluent enclaves threatened to secede.

Dropping Out

In Alabama, which makes it relatively easy to create districts, two Birmingham suburbs left the countywide system in the past two years. Jefferson County, which encompasses the city, now has 13 systems to serve its population of about 660,000.

In Tennessee, the majority-black Memphis schools last year merged with the majority-white county district. In response, the Republican-dominated legislature lifted a decades-old ban on new systems and six suburbs seceded, approving sales-tax increases to pay for their plans.

In the Atlanta area, new districts have been proposed by Dunwoody, which is part of the DeKalb County schools. In Georgia, new districts require a constitutional amendment, and Dunwoody legislators want to get one on the ballot. A city study showed a new district would immediately have a $30 million annual surplus.

And, in Dallas, a move to create a district emerged last year. Parents are proposing a system called White Rock in an affluent area east of the city.

New Autonomy

Carving out districts would have been difficult 20 years ago, when desegregation decrees were in place across the U.S., especially in the South, said Dennis Parker, director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s Racial Justice Program.

“They could not have done this under court order,” Parker said.

About half of the almost 500 districts under desegregation orders in 1990 were released by 2009, according to a Stanford University study.

The Baton Rouge case ended in 2007, the nation’s longest at 47 years, according to the Tulane institute. Supporters of a new school system twice tried to get the Louisiana legislature to put a constitutional question on the ballot that would create a district. Last year, they started working to form a new town, saying it would better their chances.

Patron Saint

If approved by voters, St. George, as it would be called, would be Louisiana’s fifth-largest city. Prospective residents hope its existence would provide political momentum for separate schools.

St. George would have about 100,000 residents, or a quarter of the population now governed by the combined city-parish government of Baton Rouge. It also would include much of the area’s retail and commercial development, including the Mall of Louisiana, which has more than 150 shops, among them department stores of Macy’s Inc. (M) and Dillard’s Inc. (DDS)

The area generates a disproportionate 40 percent of local government’s sales and use tax receipts, according to the LSU report. Removing that might mean the splintering of the unified government that now runs Baton Rouge, the researchers said.

They called the new-city method of creating a school system “costly and imprecise.”

Link to the Bloomberg article

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Frontline had a show on PBS that aired on this very subject about the"1%"'s needing to form a new town for themselves so that their schools can become totally white again. This isn't just about white and black though I see this as segregation of poor and rich. They want to keep the poor and minorities out so they are building their walls and their towns to keep people like us out and this is just the beginning. As the Oligarchs rule and the more entrenched they become in Government we will see more and more of this.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,446
214
106
“Nothing will happen to them,” said Lionel Rainey III

That guys got credibility ;)
 

MetalMat

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2004
9,687
36
91
Concerning the article this is nothing surprising. After Baton Rouge was desegregated in 1966 the white flight started and is still happening. The city has tried to force racial integration with the magnet school program over the years but it has not worked very well to my knowledge.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
They have the money, they make the rules. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
People want what's best for their kids. Something similar happened back in my hometown after I graduated high school. The schools were re-zoned specifically to put more well off middle class kids with the poorer income kids, on the theory that they wealthier parents would help raise up the school's standards. Naturally the parents of the affected kids were rather pissed that their kids would get a sub-par education in the hopes that trickle-down theory would apply.
 

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,647
47
91
People want what's best for their kids. Something similar happened back in my hometown after I graduated high school. The schools were re-zoned specifically to put more well off middle class kids with the poorer income kids, on the theory that they wealthier parents would help raise up the school's standards. Naturally the parents of the affected kids were rather pissed that their kids would get a sub-par education in the hopes that trickle-down theory would apply.

My parents which were not wealthy but hard working immigrants would not move somewhere if the school had blacks, they wanted to make sure we went to a school with whites, so they would actually drive around the schools to see what comes out during dismissal before choosing a location.
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
If wealthy people move in to a disadvantaged neighborhood they're seen as imperialists. If wealthy people move away from a disadvantaged neighborhood they're accused of condemning the people who can't afford to leave.

We've suffered our fair share of property crime so we'll be taking our household's income away from the city as soon as possible.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,569
3,762
126
Oldgamer said:
This isn't just about white and black though I see this as segregation of poor and rich.

Really? It sounds like segregation of shitty school from good school to me. Given the location I would not be shocked if racism formed a part of the method but the flight from poor performing schools is becoming more and more common. I certainly wouldn't want my kid in a school where 60% were failing if I could help it.

Meanwhile the flight from Taylor MI schools continues and people talk about splitting the school districts due to performance. But this doesn't make headlines because racism or income inequality can't be attached to it. Nope, just poor white people (78% white) fleeing a terrible performing schools for nearby low income areas with better schools. Same idea but no media attention...

They also say an influx of state money would buoy the students and teachers left behind: “Nothing will happen to them,” said Lionel Rainey III, 36, a public-relations consultant who is the seceding group’s lead spokesman.

I think thats highly unlikely but what is the PR guy going to say? "Yeah it will definitely get worse for them but the education quality of the new school will be much better"
 

silicon

Senior member
Nov 27, 2004
886
1
81
ii9FmQueerAY.jpg



In East Baton Rouge Parish, Louisiana, middle-class and wealthy neighborhoods want an educational divorce from a neighboring community where four out of 10 families live in poverty.

Saying they want local control, they’re trying to leave the 42,000-pupil public-education system. They envision their own district funded by property taxes from their higher-value homes, which would take money from schools in poorer parts of state-capital Baton Rouge, home of Louisiana State University. They even want their own city.

Similar efforts have surfaced in the past two years in Georgia, Alabama, Texas and Tennessee, some of them succeeding as the end of court-ordered desegregation removed legal barriers. The result may be a concentration of poverty and low achievement. A 2012 report by ACT, the Iowa-based testing organization, found only 10 percent of low-income students met college benchmarks in all subjects, less than half the average.

“It’s going to devastate us,” said Tania Nyman, 45, who has two elementary-age children in the Baton Rouge system. “They’re not only going to take the richer white kids out of the district, they are going to take their money out of it.”

U.S. educational funding varies by state, often relying heavily on local taxes. The South, once notorious for segregated schools, by 2011 had the nation’s second-narrowest funding disparity among districts, according to a study by the Federal Education Budget Project, a Washington-based research organization that is an offshoot of the nonpartisan New America Foundation.

Dropping Further

Louisiana, however, scored worst in the nation, according to the study. A December report by three LSU economics professors found that breaking up the East Baton Rouge Parish school system would depress total per-pupil spending to $8,870 from $9,635. It would rise to $11,686 in the breakaway district.

Eighty percent of the current district’s students are black, and 82 percent poor enough to qualify for free or reduced school meals. Nyman and other district boosters say a split would set a dire precedent.

“Every affluent community in the state will want to create their own little school system,” said Carnell Washington, president of the East Baton Rouge Federation of Teachers.“They are taking money away that would help the entire school system and the entire city.”

Opting Out

Backers of the split, whose website is called Local Schools for Local Children, say the district has been failing for at least a dozen years, with some schools performing so poorly that the state took them over. In the 2011-2012 school year, six of 10 students attended a school ranked failing or almost failing by the state and the drop-out rate was 20 percent, according to Baton Rouge Area Chamber, a business group.

“Baton Rouge is one of the best job markets around, and the middle class is moving out,” said Republican state Senator Mack “Bodi” White. “Those who stay have their kids in private schools.”

About 30 percent of children within district lines were in private schools in 2009, according to Tulane University’s Cowen Institute for Public Education Initiatives.

White and other supporters say a split’s impact has been exaggerated, in part by estimates that assume a new district will pay nothing toward the current one’s retirement obligations, which they say they would share.

They also say an influx of state money would buoy the students and teachers left behind: “Nothing will happen to them,” said Lionel Rainey III, 36, a public-relations consultant who is the seceding group’s lead spokesman.

Poorer Still

James Richardson, director of the Public Administration Institute at LSU, who researched a split, said the remaining district will get more state dollars because it will have more impoverished children, but that won’t replace lost revenue.

The researchers assumed the new district would pay no retirement obligations because there has been no binding proposal for sharing them, he said.

Horacio Aldrete, a Dallas-based Standard & Poor’s managing director who studies school finance, warned of risk for both sides. A reduced tax base and declining enrollment could hurt the remaining district, while a smaller newcomer would lose efficiencies of scale as it hires superintendents and staff, he said. The splinter system may have to build schools and raise taxes if pupils migrate from private education, he said.

Baton Rouge is among several metropolitan areas where affluent enclaves threatened to secede.

Dropping Out

In Alabama, which makes it relatively easy to create districts, two Birmingham suburbs left the countywide system in the past two years. Jefferson County, which encompasses the city, now has 13 systems to serve its population of about 660,000.

In Tennessee, the majority-black Memphis schools last year merged with the majority-white county district. In response, the Republican-dominated legislature lifted a decades-old ban on new systems and six suburbs seceded, approving sales-tax increases to pay for their plans.

In the Atlanta area, new districts have been proposed by Dunwoody, which is part of the DeKalb County schools. In Georgia, new districts require a constitutional amendment, and Dunwoody legislators want to get one on the ballot. A city study showed a new district would immediately have a $30 million annual surplus.

And, in Dallas, a move to create a district emerged last year. Parents are proposing a system called White Rock in an affluent area east of the city.

New Autonomy

Carving out districts would have been difficult 20 years ago, when desegregation decrees were in place across the U.S., especially in the South, said Dennis Parker, director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s Racial Justice Program.

“They could not have done this under court order,” Parker said.

About half of the almost 500 districts under desegregation orders in 1990 were released by 2009, according to a Stanford University study.

The Baton Rouge case ended in 2007, the nation’s longest at 47 years, according to the Tulane institute. Supporters of a new school system twice tried to get the Louisiana legislature to put a constitutional question on the ballot that would create a district. Last year, they started working to form a new town, saying it would better their chances.

Patron Saint

If approved by voters, St. George, as it would be called, would be Louisiana’s fifth-largest city. Prospective residents hope its existence would provide political momentum for separate schools.

St. George would have about 100,000 residents, or a quarter of the population now governed by the combined city-parish government of Baton Rouge. It also would include much of the area’s retail and commercial development, including the Mall of Louisiana, which has more than 150 shops, among them department stores of Macy’s Inc. (M) and Dillard’s Inc. (DDS)

The area generates a disproportionate 40 percent of local government’s sales and use tax receipts, according to the LSU report. Removing that might mean the splintering of the unified government that now runs Baton Rouge, the researchers said.

They called the new-city method of creating a school system “costly and imprecise.”

Link to the Bloomberg article

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Frontline had a show on PBS that aired on this very subject about the"1%"'s needing to form a new town for themselves so that their schools can become totally white again. This isn't just about white and black though I see this as segregation of poor and rich. They want to keep the poor and minorities out so they are building their walls and their towns to keep people like us out and this is just the beginning. As the Oligarchs rule and the more entrenched they become in Government we will see more and more of this.
parents want, of course, that which is best for their children and those who are wealthy are able to afford better schools and to hire better teachers etc. most teachers do not like the poor schools because the students lack motivation to learn and, frequently, they cause many problems for the teachers. Teachers begin to have negative expectations of this group for learning basic material, test scores drop, students fail and drop out etc. So why shouldn't they demand to have their own schools? Integration be damned in this case.
 

silicon

Senior member
Nov 27, 2004
886
1
81
If wealthy people move in to a disadvantaged neighborhood they're seen as imperialists. If wealthy people move away from a disadvantaged neighborhood they're accused of condemning the people who can't afford to leave.

We've suffered our fair share of property crime so we'll be taking our household's income away from the city as soon as possible.

there is nothing preventing the poor from bettering their lives. why do they need to sit on the hands and wait for the gub'mint to hand them stuff? what happened to determination?
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
parents want, of course, that which is best for their children and those who are wealthy are able to afford better schools and to hire better teachers etc. most teachers do not like the poor schools because the students lack motivation to learn and, frequently, they cause many problems for the teachers.

This. During the teenage years, the most powerful influence in a child's life is usually thier peers, not their parents, so parents are going to want their kids to be around other kids who have high aspirations, solid goals, and a strong focus on the long-term. Parents aren't fleeing the poor schools so much as they're fleeing the poor peers.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
This is the way school systems already work in north east NJ.

my first thought was "this is how NJ ended up with three thousand different school districts."

but the Abbot ruling in the 70's fucked it all up. rich towns get their school moneys taken away and funneled to poor towns. meanwhile, we're paying for all kinds of stupidly inefficient administrative overweight because everyone gets their panties in a bunch when people talk about consolidating towns.
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
1
0
This. During the teenage years, the most powerful influence in a child's life is usually thier peers, not their parents, so parents are going to want their kids to be around other kids who have high aspirations, solid goals, and a strong focus on the long-term. Parents aren't fleeing the poor schools so much as they're fleeing the poor peers.

my first thought was "this is how NJ ended up with three thousand different school districts."

but the Abbot ruling in the 70's fucked it all up. rich towns get their school moneys taken away and funneled to poor towns. meanwhile, we're paying for all kinds of stupidly inefficient administrative overweight because everyone gets their panties in a bunch when people talk about consolidating towns.

To me this just sounds like more of the same stereo typing "the poor are lazy and unmotivated, and just want to live off welfare crap, and blah blah blah, why should we share, and give them our money, and help them, blah blah blah"....
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
To me this just sounds like more of the same stereo typing "the poor are lazy and unmotivated, and just want to live off welfare crap, and blah blah blah, why should we share, and give them our money, and help them, blah blah blah"....

it's also solid proof that school funding is not the problem.

in NJ, Abbott districts spend 22% more per pupil than other districts but have the worst schools and lowest test scores in the state.

background:

Abbott districts are school districts in New Jersey covered by a series of New Jersey Supreme Court rulings, begun in 1985,[5] that found that the education provided to school children in poor communities was inadequate and unconstitutional and mandated that state funding for these districts be equal to that spent in the wealthiest districts in the state.

The Court in Abbott II[6] and in subsequent rulings,[7] ordered the State to assure that these children receive an adequate education through implementation of certain reforms, including standards-based education supported by parity funding. It include various supplemental programs and school facilities improvements, including to Head Start and early education programs. The Head Start and NAACP were represented by Maxim Thorne as amici curiae in the case.[8]

The part of the New Jersey Constitution that is the basis of the Abbott decisions requires that:

[t]he Legislature shall provide for the maintenance and support of a thorough and efficient system of free public schools for the instruction of all the children in the State between the ages of five and eighteen years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbott_district
 

silicon

Senior member
Nov 27, 2004
886
1
81
To me this just sounds like more of the same stereo typing "the poor are lazy and unmotivated, and just want to live off welfare crap, and blah blah blah, why should we share, and give them our money, and help them, blah blah blah"....

Have you ever seen families that exist on welfare for generations? Each generation of welfarites learn from the parents how to kive on the system. I have seen this.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,023
12,266
136
I guess they'll get together to figure out the best bus routes so the people in Banton Rouge can get in to clean their houses.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
I saw parts of the Frontline special from PBS about this issue and I saw the points of those folks. They pay their taxes/fees and they do not get a good return for their own kids with good schools. They want what is best for their kids with their property taxes.


Let the people vote and decide. Fair enough.


Here is the FAQ from their website = http://www.stgeorgelouisiana.com/about/faqs
 
Last edited:

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
I did a contract for DCPS several years ago. It's the only place I've been in the world where I was threatened with serious bodily injury by a primary school aged child. What did I do to earn this threat you might ask, well I was quietly carrying a brand new PC down a flight of stairs so that it could be deployed for this student's use. We were specifically instructed not to engage the students in conversation.




There is no excuse for this behavior and there is no conceivable circumstance where I would allow my own children to be educated in such an environment.
 
Last edited:

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,023
12,266
136
I saw parts of the Frontline special from PBS about this issue and I saw the points of those folks. They pay their taxes/fees and they do not get a good return for their own kids with good schools. They want what is best for their kids with their property taxes.


Let the people vote and decide. Fair enough.


Here is the FAQ from their website = http://www.stgeorgelouisiana.com/about/faqs

Might as well just bring back the Jim Crow laws, afterall that's what the people want.
 

silicon

Senior member
Nov 27, 2004
886
1
81
Might as well just bring back the Jim Crow laws, afterall that's what the people want.

its not jim crow as much as it is an attempt by parents to give their children the very best education possible and in the United States this is possible. Jim Crow was about separate but in this case the poor will need to pull themselves up and move forward. There is too much tendency to hold out the hand. Often students in the lower socio-economic area do not encourage their children to work hard...its all about destroying what they are given.