Basic classes to carry guns?

[piasabird]

People need to try different rounds and weapons to see what works best for them. My friend use to hunt coyotes with a 22-250. It killed them just as dead as a 270 Winchester rifle. Just because some nutball in a store says you need a specific weapon that does not mean you have to buy a glock. Some double action pistols are really hard to get use to firing. You would not know this till you had to shoot one. I had a baretta 9mm and I thought it was shit for a firearm. I sold it cheap at a pawn shop.

Go to a gun range and shoot the weapon before you buy it. Often gun ranges will rent you a weapon for one session so you can see if it is right for you.

I think a .22Lr can be quite a deadly weapon. Lots of people end up dead from them. I put about 9 out of 10 rounds inside the number 8 circle at 50 meters. Then I saw a police officer show up that could barely hit the target. Did not give me much confidence in the local law enforcement.

An illegal would do a better job than most of our elected officials.

 

[rudeguy]

People need to try different rounds and weapons to see what works best for them. My friend use to hunt coyotes with a 22-250. It killed them just as dead as a 270 Winchester rifle. Just because some nutball in a store says you need a specific weapon that does not mean you have to buy a glock. Some double action pistols are really hard to get use to firing. You would not know this till you had to shoot one. I had a baretta 9mm and I thought it was shit for a firearm. I sold it cheap at a pawn shop.

Go to a gun range and shoot the weapon before you buy it. Often gun ranges will rent you a weapon for one session so you can see if it is right for you.

I think a .22Lr can be quite a deadly weapon. Lots of people end up dead from them. I put about 9 out of 10 rounds inside the number 8 circle at 50 meters. Then I saw a police officer show up that could barely hit the target. Did not give me much confidence in the local law enforcement.

An illegal would do a better job than most of our elected officials.

You are a moron.

 

[irishScott]

People need to try different rounds and weapons to see what works best for them. My friend use to hunt coyotes with a 22-250. It killed them just as dead as a 270 Winchester rifle. Just because some nutball in a store says you need a specific weapon that does not mean you have to buy a glock. Some double action pistols are really hard to get use to firing. You would not know this till you had to shoot one. I had a baretta 9mm and I thought it was shit for a firearm. I sold it cheap at a pawn shop.

Go to a gun range and shoot the weapon before you buy it. Often gun ranges will rent you a weapon for one session so you can see if it is right for you.

I think a .22Lr can be quite a deadly weapon. Lots of people end up dead from them. I put about 9 out of 10 rounds inside the number 8 circle at 50 meters. Then I saw a police officer show up that could barely hit the target. Did not give me much confidence in the local law enforcement.

An illegal would do a better job than most of our elected officials.

Going to stop you right there. Just because something can be a deadly weapon doesn't mean it's a good one. I've read stories where attackers were shot multiple times with a .22 and not only survived, but killed their victim. Granted those are rare cases and a .22 is certainly better than nothing, but you don't see such stories with 9mm or even .380.

.22 kills more than any other round because it's a common, cheap round that goes into common, cheap guns and and criminals are common, cheap stupid.

Going to a gun range and renting a gun to try it out is great, but most ranges have a fairly limited selection limited to the most popular models. Most don't have the smaller concealed carry pistols, either.

 

[RampantAndroid]

People need to try different rounds and weapons to see what works best for them. My friend use to hunt coyotes with a 22-250. It killed them just as dead as a 270 Winchester rifle. Just because some nutball in a store says you need a specific weapon that does not mean you have to buy a glock. Some double action pistols are really hard to get use to firing. You would not know this till you had to shoot one. I had a baretta 9mm and I thought it was shit for a firearm. I sold it cheap at a pawn shop.

Go to a gun range and shoot the weapon before you buy it. Often gun ranges will rent you a weapon for one session so you can see if it is right for you.

I think a .22Lr can be quite a deadly weapon. Lots of people end up dead from them. I put about 9 out of 10 rounds inside the number 8 circle at 50 meters. Then I saw a police officer show up that could barely hit the target. Did not give me much confidence in the local law enforcement.

An illegal would do a better job than most of our elected officials.

Sure, 22 can be lethal. Operative being "can be" - most of the time it won't be. If the shot is in the RIGHT place, yes - it'll kill. Miss the vital organ and it does nothing. A proper hollowpoint 9mm or .45 will do more damage - a cross section of ballistic gel shot with each round is enough to tell you this.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Sure, 22 can be lethal. Operative being "can be" - most of the time it won't be. If the shot is in the RIGHT place, yes - it'll kill. Miss the vital organ and it does nothing. A proper hollowpoint 9mm or .45 will do more damage - a cross section of ballistic gel shot with each round is enough to tell you this.

^ This

I can kill a hog with a 22LR however, if you're even the slightest bit off the mark the round will ricochet off it skull rather than penetrate the brain and you end up with a thrashing, pissed off hog.

 

[Nebor]

^ This

I can kill a hog with a 22LR however, if you're even the slightest bit off the mark the round will ricochet off it skull rather than penetrate the brain and you end up with a thrashing, pissed off hog.

I've seen a charging hog take 15 9mm Hydrashoks to the head. The only one that brought it down went through the eye. The other 14 were fully expanded, embedded in the skin & bone of the skull.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I've seen a charging hog take 15 9mm Hydrashoks to the head. The only one that brought it down went through the eye. The other 14 were fully expanded, embedded in the skin & bone of the skull.

There are times when FMJ is needed. There's a reason that for my carry 1911 I have a mag in it, and 2 in my pocket: 7+1 hollow points loaded, 2 mags full of 7 FMJ rounds in my pocket. If 8 hollowpoints aren't doing it, then FMJs will.

For wildlife though, using something smaller than .357mag seems a bit...well, ill thought out. My wildlife gun remains my .41mag for this reason (with ammo loaded nearer the top of the SAAMI spec than off the shelf ammo.)

 

[rudeguy]

I've seen a charging hog take 15 9mm Hydrashoks to the head. The only one that brought it down went through the eye. The other 14 were fully expanded, embedded in the skin & bone of the skull.

but piasabird's friend used to hunt coyotes with a 22!


Oh...and then while he was shooting his 22 at a range, some cops randomly came up and asked if they could shoot his 22. Because that's something you would do if you went to a gun range, ask the guy next to you to shoot his 22.

 

[RampantAndroid]

but piasabird's friend used to hunt coyotes with a 22!


Oh...and then while he was shooting his 22 at a range, some cops randomly came up and asked if they could shoot his 22. Because that's something you would do if you went to a gun range, ask the guy next to you to shoot his 22.

The only thing I do to people next to me who have a .22 is warn them when I walk in my my Garand, 1903 or similar that I'm about to start firing the loud stuff. Even with warning them, they usually jump at the first round. Hell, the jump when I fire off my 41 or 44 magnum revolvers too (to be fair, my .44 sounds like a cannon going off.)

 

[rudeguy]

The only thing I do to people next to me who have a .22 is warn them when I walk in my my Garand, 1903 or similar that I'm about to start firing the loud stuff. Even with warning them, they usually jump at the first round. Hell, the jump when I fire off my 41 or 44 magnum revolvers too (to be fair, my .44 sounds like a cannon going off.)

The only time I remember talking to someone while shooting at the range was some guy had some hot loads and his empties were flying over the divider. I was trying not to laugh and the guy came over to say he was sorry. We chuckled and I made sure he knew I didn't mind taking hot loads to the face :awe:

 

[Nebor]

There are times when FMJ is needed. There's a reason that for my carry 1911 I have a mag in it, and 2 in my pocket: 7+1 hollow points loaded, 2 mags full of 7 FMJ rounds in my pocket. If 8 hollowpoints aren't doing it, then FMJs will.

For wildlife though, using something smaller than .357mag seems a bit...well, ill thought out. My wildlife gun remains my .41mag for this reason (with ammo loaded nearer the top of the SAAMI spec than off the shelf ammo.)

I don't think that an FMJ .45 is going to do much more than hollowpoint .45 to be honest. I could maybe understand .357 SIG FMJ vs. hollowpoint as the FMJs are capable of piercing soft body armor out of 4" barrel. But even then you have to consider that virtually no gunfights in the US involve magazine changes. I guess you could mix FMJ & HP in the same magazine, but then you run the risk of punching a round clean through a bad guy and into a bystander.

The hog encounter was a friend of mine who was deer hunting. He had a 7mm Magnum but slung it and drew his Beretta 92 when the hog came after him. Silly, huh?

 

[Nebor]

The only time I remember talking to someone while shooting at the range was some guy had some hot loads and his empties were flying over the divider. I was trying not to laugh and the guy came over to say he was sorry. We chuckled and I made sure he knew I didn't mind taking hot loads to the face :awe:

Me at the beginning of your post: Aw yeaaah, I'm going to make a great "hot loads" joke
Me at the end of your post: :\

 

[RampantAndroid]

I don't think that an FMJ .45 is going to do much more than hollowpoint .45 to be honest. I could maybe understand .357 SIG FMJ vs. hollowpoint as the FMJs are capable of piercing soft body armor out of 4" barrel. But even then you have to consider that virtually no gunfights in the US involve magazine changes. I guess you could mix FMJ & HP in the same magazine, but then you run the risk of punching a round clean through a bad guy and into a bystander.

The hog encounter was a friend of mine who was deer hunting. He had a 7mm Magnum but slung it and drew his Beretta 92 when the hog came after him. Silly, huh?

In .45, FMJ rounds will go roughly twice the distance penetration wise - at least with ballistic gel from what I've seen. They'll hold together as well.

With regards to FMJ and HP in my mags, I fully expect that should the situation dictate, simply swapping mags is an option.

 

[Nebor]

In .45, FMJ rounds will go roughly twice the distance penetration wise - at least with ballistic gel from what I've seen. They'll hold together as well.

With regards to FMJ and HP in my mags, I fully expect that should the situation dictate, simply swapping mags is an option.

:hmm:

 

[adairusmc]

Most shall-issue states have some mandated training IIRC, and most gun owners don't have an issue with it.

Hell even the NRA doesn't have an issue with it and in fact recommends training. There are a few fringe radicals who bitch, but even they've got much bigger fish to fry.

My state does, but I got the class requirement waived by showing my dd-214. All I had to do was pay the $65.

 

[PliotronX]

:hmm:

It's not outside the realm of sanity. In 9mm for example, modern JHP tends to average something like 15-18" while FMJ happily glides to nearly 30". I don't get why some areas ban JHP, ball is dangerous.

 

[RampantAndroid]

It's not outside the realm of sanity. In 9mm for example, modern JHP tends to average something like 15-18" while FMJ happily glides to nearly 30". I don't get why some areas ban JHP, ball is dangerous.

Exactly this. JHP will stop sooner; it's more lethal when on target, and stops faster when not on target. I get why it's frowned on - even when fully jacketed (as in, event the center is jacketed) it'll leave shards of lead everywhere, including inside people and animals...but FMJ will go through more material since it maintains its shape better - it doesn't deform as much, as fast, or break apart as easily. If your goal is to shoot through the front of a windshield, while JHP will likely work, FMJ is less likely to be seriously slowed down o thrown off course.

 

[Nebor]

You both missed my point. What can an FMJ .45 do that an HP .45 cannot, practically speaking? Compared to say, the difference between FMJ\HP .357 SIG or 5.7x28.

Also, a gunfight where you have time (and perceived reason) to change out your ammunition is probably one you shouldn't participate in, since you obviously have the time and clarity of mind to consider your options.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I've seen a charging hog take 15 9mm Hydrashoks to the head. The only one that brought it down went through the eye. The other 14 were fully expanded, embedded in the skin & bone of the skull.

I was referring to shooting a hog in a pin prior to butchering it. I don't want to think of being put into a position of trying to shoot a charging hog with a 22LR. I would want a rifle in the 7mm range and more than a 100 foot distance to the hog.

 

[rudeguy]

You both missed my point. What can an FMJ .45 do that an HP .45 cannot, practically speaking? Compared to say, the difference between FMJ\HP .357 SIG or 5.7x28.

Also, a gunfight where you have time (and perceived reason) to change out your ammunition is probably one you shouldn't participate in, since you obviously have the time and clarity of mind to consider your options.

The perception is that it can go deeper. So go through extra layers of clothing or more body mass than a JHP. My problem with that is the whole point of the .45 round is that it dumps its energy very fast, which is what gives it superior stopping power.

Bottom line is that if you need to put holes in someone, a .22 is not the round to do it with.

 

[Muse]

To even own a gun I think you should be thoroughly vetted (and trained, of course). I don't think you should be allowed to have one in your possession unless you are in the military, an officer of the law with an immediate need for a firearm (i.e. most will not carry them as a rule), or demonstrably and legally hunting, and that should be thoroughly controlled, and you should relinquish your hunting weapons when not actually hunting. Period.

 

[rudeguy]

To even own a gun I think you should be thoroughly vetted (and trained, of course). I don't think you should be allowed to have one in your possession unless you are in the military, an officer of the law with an immediate need for a firearm (i.e. most will not carry them as a rule), or demonstrably and legally hunting, and that should be thoroughly controlled, and you should relinquish your hunting weapons when not actually hunting. Period.

Should the Constitution be amended to say that?

 

[Nebor]

The perception is that it can go deeper. So go through extra layers of clothing or more body mass than a JHP. My problem with that is the whole point of the .45 round is that it dumps its energy very fast, which is what gives it superior stopping power.

Bottom line is that if you need to put holes in someone, a .22 is not the round to do it with.

Well and it certainly does, in ballistic gel. That's the point I was trying to make to the other two. Unless you're shooting the Human Blob, there's no point in penetrating 30" of ballistic gel. But a FMJ .45, due to surface area & ballistics, does not penetrate hard objects (body armor, metal, glass) significantly better than a JHP .45. That is not the case with smaller, lighter rounds.

 

[highland145]

Should the Constitution be amended to say that?

Let's just ship him to the Brits.

 

[rudeguy]

Well and it certainly does, in ballistic gel. That's the point I was trying to make to the other two. Unless you're shooting the Human Blob, there's no point in penetrating 30" of ballistic gel. But a FMJ .45, due to surface area & ballistics, does not penetrate hard objects (body armor, metal, glass) significantly better than a JHP .45. That is not the case with smaller, lighter rounds.

Yea I really hate internet pissing contests over ballistics. Do I really care if a round went in 30" or 25"? No. I care if it can stop a threat. I carry 9mm Gold Dot JHP +P rounds. Are those inferior to a .45 FMJ round for penetration? Yes. Will they stop a threat? Yep.

Now if we are going to get into body armor penetration and going through walls, etc, then we should be talking about rifles. But we already have a thread for that kind of thing.

This needs to get back to picking on that guy for saying 2 cops came up to him at a gun range and wanted to shoot his .22. Cause that for damn sure didn't happen.