Bashing the Boy Scouts

[Babbles]

I think the ACLU is just now a cover organization for communism. They will sue any institution just for the sake of suing. They do wild things like sued a school district to prohibt the students from playing "Silent Night" yet in another school district they sued to allow a student to wear a pro-gay tee-shirt. The irony is that both of those things are self expression by the students, yet the ACLU will take whatever position they can just for the sake of causing trouble.

This Boy Scout military fiasco is just another dumb thing that the ACLU is doing to screw over the very people they claim to help. They should be embarrased of themselves.

As a former Boy Scout (missed getting my eagle by a few months ) I support gay rights, however I understand why having openly gay adult leaders is considered a bad thing and more importantly they are a private organization and should be able to set their own rules. Also when I was a kid I was agnostic and had no problem getting along. As many others mentioned the Boy Scouts require one to have some sort of religious belief, not neccesarily a Christian God.

The ACLU is know an emarassment in our legal and social structure.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Don't forget that when the court told them they could discriminate against gays, they also lost their tax exempt status.

Sorry, paint me as a left wing liberal nut, but times are changing. If the old institutions of America can't accept that, then they have to be razed the ground. Let's hope the ACLU brings an end the boyscouts in my lifetime. :thumbsup:

Man, you are just an idiot.

Private organizations should be allowed to accept whom they wish, and that is an American consitutional right - you know the entire right to assemble thing??

Yes, you are a left wing liberal nut because you fail to think things through and understand the implications of how our society works.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Nebor
Don't forget that when the court told them they could discriminate against gays, they also lost their tax exempt status.

Sorry, paint me as a left wing liberal nut, but times are changing. If the old institutions of America can't accept that, then they have to be razed the ground. Let's hope the ACLU brings an end the boyscouts in my lifetime. :thumbsup:

Man, you are just an idiot.

Private organizations should be allowed to accept whom they wish, and that is an American consitutional right - you know the entire right to assemble thing??

Yes, you are a left wing liberal nut because you fail to think things through and understand the implications of how our society works.

I agree that private organizations should be allowed to accept whom they wish. Indeed it is a right. But that doesn't mean I have to like the way they do things. Consequently, I'll do whatever I can to harm their organization.

I don't disagree with their right, I just disagree with what they're saying. Get it?

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Don't forget that when the court told them they could discriminate against gays, they also lost their tax exempt status.

Sorry, paint me as a left wing liberal nut, but times are changing. If the old institutions of America can't accept that, then they have to be razed the ground. Let's hope the ACLU brings an end the boyscouts in my lifetime. :thumbsup:

as an affirmed life-long lefty who recently participated, with his kids, in a march supporting gay marriage, i have to say that i am not pleased with the boy scouts decision to ban gay leaders. however, i also support their right, as a private organization, to have their own rules. it may have been true that minorities deserved access to various organizations due to the "closed door" deals that were made, but i don't think a lot of deals are being made at jamborees! and of course, gays are still allowed to participate, at least i think they are, in non-leadership positions.

as someone who is a pack master and den leader in my sons cub scout pack, i have to say i find your statement stupid and offensive. i know scouting offers many great things to kids and there is no reason it should be eliminated just because it's current leadership is closed-minded on certain issues. i think you should rephrase your statement to hope that scouting will become more open minded and inclusive. that makes a lot more sense. or we could do things your way and shut down any organization or company that is biased against any minority group. oh, wait, that would shut down everything, wouldn't it?!

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Nebor

I agree that private organizations should be allowed to accept whom they wish. Indeed it is a right. But that doesn't mean I have to like the way they do things. Consequently, I'll do whatever I can to harm their organization.

I don't disagree with their right, I just disagree with what they're saying. Get it?

No, you are wrong and you don't get it.
If you don't agree with them, that is fine. However that does not mean that you have some sort of dillusional "right" to harm their organization simply because you don't agree with them.
See they have a constitutional right to assemble as they please, however you do NOT have a constitutional right to harm them.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Don't forget that when the court told them they could discriminate against gays, they also lost their tax exempt status.

Bullsh!t

Tax exempt orgs and religious orgs can discriminate at will. Or would you force a Jewish Church to hire Muslim clerics and vice-versa?

How about we force Christian Churches to hire Atheist pastors?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Nebor

I agree that private organizations should be allowed to accept whom they wish. Indeed it is a right. But that doesn't mean I have to like the way they do things. Consequently, I'll do whatever I can to harm their organization.

I don't disagree with their right, I just disagree with what they're saying. Get it?

No, you are wrong and you don't get it.
If you don't agree with them, that is fine. However that does not mean that you have some sort of dillusional "right" to harm their organization simply because you don't agree with them.
See they have a constitutional right to assemble as they please, however you do NOT have a constitutional right to harm them.

And indeed the ACLU isn't harming them. It's simply ensuring that their organization stays within the confines of the laws and constitution of this nation. If the boyscouts can't help from breaking these rules and laws, then I suppose they won't be able to exist anymore. What a pity. They aren't being illegally harassed.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Nebor
Don't forget that when the court told them they could discriminate against gays, they also lost their tax exempt status.

Bullsh!t

Tax exempt orgs and religious orgs can discriminate at will. Or would you force a Jewish Church to hire Muslim clerics and vice-versa?

How about we force Christian Churches to hire Atheist pastors?

The National Boyscout Association is no longer tax exempt. Only the individual scout troops are. And it's likely that that will be challenged in the future.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Nebor

I agree that private organizations should be allowed to accept whom they wish. Indeed it is a right. But that doesn't mean I have to like the way they do things. Consequently, I'll do whatever I can to harm their organization.

I don't disagree with their right, I just disagree with what they're saying. Get it?

No, you are wrong and you don't get it.
If you don't agree with them, that is fine. However that does not mean that you have some sort of dillusional "right" to harm their organization simply because you don't agree with them.
See they have a constitutional right to assemble as they please, however you do NOT have a constitutional right to harm them.

And indeed the ACLU isn't harming them. It's simply ensuring that their organization stays within the confines of the laws and constitution of this nation. If the boyscouts can't help from breaking these rules and laws, then I suppose they won't be able to exist anymore. What a pity. They aren't being illegally harassed.

The difference is, they aren't breaking rules. They are being singled out and treated differently than any other group, org, or individual. I mean, come on. They were banned from using a PUBLIC PARK in San Deigo, CA.

The ACLU along with American Atheists (I am a former member of both) have gone WAY overboard and their campaign looks like a form a Jihad on any religious org or group of people.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Nebor
Don't forget that when the court told them they could discriminate against gays, they also lost their tax exempt status.

Bullsh!t

Tax exempt orgs and religious orgs can discriminate at will. Or would you force a Jewish Church to hire Muslim clerics and vice-versa?

How about we force Christian Churches to hire Atheist pastors?

The National Boyscout Association is no longer tax exempt. Only the individual scout troops are. And it's likely that that will be challenged in the future.

I was disagreeing with the ruling.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: dbzwukan
Shouldn't this go to P&N, we don't want this here.

STFU I want it here.

Riprorin....last line of post = discredited this from becoming a legitamate thread. Nice work!

Deeko, for someone who really wants this to stay, you haven't contributed your own thoughts on this issue.

 

[shuan24]

I agree with Nebor, no matter what the ACLU is doing, the Scouts aren't being illegally harrassed. Just because they've been doing something for a long time, it doesn't make it right.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: shuan24
I agree with Nebor, no matter what the ACLU is doing, the Scouts aren't being illegally harrassed. Just because they've been doing something for a long time, it doesn't make it right.

I disagree. They are being singled out for their beliefs and are being denied EQUAL access to public buildings and parks.

The key to maintaining a separation of church and state AND preserving the freedom of individuals and religious orgs is EQUAL ACCESS. Not a total denial of access.

This is something many lower courts have failed to understand.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: shuan24
I agree with Nebor, no matter what the ACLU is doing, the Scouts aren't being illegally harrassed. Just because they've been doing something for a long time, it doesn't make it right.

I disagree. They are being singled out for their beliefs and are being denied EQUAL access to public buildings and parks.

The key to maintaining a separation of church and state AND preserving the freedom of individuals and religious orgs is EQUAL ACCESS. Not a total denial of access.

This is something many lower courts have failed to understand.

I think the ACLU has pushed things to the point of saying "If the government supports the Boyscouts in any way, then the government hates gays just as much as the Boyscouts." That's why they denied them access to the park.

That's sort of a pickle though, because as far as I know, not even the Klu Klux Klan has been kicked out of a public place... Thus, I find this particular approach to the destruction of the Boyscouts to be unfair. Since the goverment can't endorse any particular beliefs, they must allow equal access or no access, as long as it's the SAME access to all groups of people.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: shuan24
I agree with Nebor, no matter what the ACLU is doing, the Scouts aren't being illegally harrassed. Just because they've been doing something for a long time, it doesn't make it right.

I disagree. They are being singled out for their beliefs and are being denied EQUAL access to public buildings and parks.

The key to maintaining a separation of church and state AND preserving the freedom of individuals and religious orgs is EQUAL ACCESS. Not a total denial of access.

This is something many lower courts have failed to understand.

I think the ACLU has pushed things to the point of saying "If the government supports the Boyscouts in any way, then the government hates gays just as much as the Boyscouts." That's why they denied them access to the park.

That's sort of a pickle though, because as far as I know, not even the Klu Klux Klan has been kicked out of a public place... Thus, I find this particular approach to the destruction of the Boyscouts to be unfair. Since the goverment can't endorse any particular beliefs, they must allow equal access or no access, as long as it's the SAME access to all groups of people.

Well, then, it appears you agree with me now?

 

[wkabel23]

Originally posted by: Babbles
I think the ACLU is just now a cover organization for communism. They will sue any institution just for the sake of suing. They do wild things like sued a school district to prohibt the students from playing "Silent Night" yet in another school district they sued to allow a student to wear a pro-gay tee-shirt. The irony is that both of those things are self expression by the students, yet the ACLU will take whatever position they can just for the sake of causing trouble.

This Boy Scout military fiasco is just another dumb thing that the ACLU is doing to screw over the very people they claim to help. They should be embarrased of themselves.

As a former Boy Scout (missed getting my eagle by a few months ) I support gay rights, however I understand why having openly gay adult leaders is considered a bad thing and more importantly they are a private organization and should be able to set their own rules. Also when I was a kid I was agnostic and had no problem getting along. As many others mentioned the Boy Scouts require one to have some sort of religious belief, not neccesarily a Christian God.

The ACLU is know an emarassment in our legal and social structure.

Do you now what communism is? If you do, back up your point instead of spewing out irrational hate-filled thoughts. If you don't, consult a dictionary.

EDIT: ooooh, I see your name hints at the nature of your posts. How clever!

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: shuan24
I agree with Nebor, no matter what the ACLU is doing, the Scouts aren't being illegally harrassed. Just because they've been doing something for a long time, it doesn't make it right.

I disagree. They are being singled out for their beliefs and are being denied EQUAL access to public buildings and parks.

The key to maintaining a separation of church and state AND preserving the freedom of individuals and religious orgs is EQUAL ACCESS. Not a total denial of access.

This is something many lower courts have failed to understand.

I think the ACLU has pushed things to the point of saying "If the government supports the Boyscouts in any way, then the government hates gays just as much as the Boyscouts." That's why they denied them access to the park.

That's sort of a pickle though, because as far as I know, not even the Klu Klux Klan has been kicked out of a public place... Thus, I find this particular approach to the destruction of the Boyscouts to be unfair. Since the goverment can't endorse any particular beliefs, they must allow equal access or no access, as long as it's the SAME access to all groups of people.

Well, then, it appears you agree with me now?

I merely agree that they shouldn't be kicked out of parks. Beyond that, I still support the ACLU's legal harassment of the Boyscouts, hopefully resulting in the ultimate destruction of the Boyscouts. :thumbsup:

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Nebor

I agree that private organizations should be allowed to accept whom they wish. Indeed it is a right. But that doesn't mean I have to like the way they do things. Consequently, I'll do whatever I can to harm their organization.

I don't disagree with their right, I just disagree with what they're saying. Get it?

No, you are wrong and you don't get it.
If you don't agree with them, that is fine. However that does not mean that you have some sort of dillusional "right" to harm their organization simply because you don't agree with them.
See they have a constitutional right to assemble as they please, however you do NOT have a constitutional right to harm them.

And indeed the ACLU isn't harming them. It's simply ensuring that their organization stays within the confines of the laws and constitution of this nation. If the boyscouts can't help from breaking these rules and laws, then I suppose they won't be able to exist anymore. What a pity. They aren't being illegally harassed.

Consequently, I'll do whatever I can to harm their organization.

Sounds like, though, you would be more than happy to illegally harass them.

The Boy Scouts are being singled out and in a somewhat ironic twist are being persecuted for having a religious affliation. The KKK now seems to have more freedoms than the Boy Scouts of America, and at least to me that is pretty screwed up.

The ACLU is doing a bang up job of screwing more boys over than they profess to be helping. In fact exactly who are they helping? Who is actually being harmed when the Boy Scouts state that members need to hold some religious belief of some sort?
This is so silly why doesn't the ACLU sue Churchs for requiring their members to believe in God? They are both private organizations, they both do civic services, they both hold social events. . . let's just get rid of religious institutions while we are at it.

 

[0roo0roo]

i was a boyscout. and they have every right to be bigoted small minded cretins. as long as they don't use public facilities or funding for their functions, its dandy. and that wasnt always the case before the aclu and others started keeping an eye on them. and frankly the scouts weren't quite as bigoted as they were now until the mormons decided it was their official program and started to take it over.

 

[dquan97]

I think the ACLU has outlived its usefulness...

 

[shuan24]

Originally posted by: wkabel23

Originally posted by: Babbles
I think the ACLU is just now a cover organization for communism. They will sue any institution just for the sake of suing. They do wild things like sued a school district to prohibt the students from playing "Silent Night" yet in another school district they sued to allow a student to wear a pro-gay tee-shirt. The irony is that both of those things are self expression by the students, yet the ACLU will take whatever position they can just for the sake of causing trouble.

This Boy Scout military fiasco is just another dumb thing that the ACLU is doing to screw over the very people they claim to help. They should be embarrased of themselves.

As a former Boy Scout (missed getting my eagle by a few months ) I support gay rights, however I understand why having openly gay adult leaders is considered a bad thing and more importantly they are a private organization and should be able to set their own rules. Also when I was a kid I was agnostic and had no problem getting along. As many others mentioned the Boy Scouts require one to have some sort of religious belief, not neccesarily a Christian God.

The ACLU is know an emarassment in our legal and social structure.

Do you now what communism is? If you do, back up your point instead of spewing out irrational hate-filled thoughts. If you don't, consult a dictionary.

EDIT: ooooh, I see your name hints at the nature of your posts. How clever!

LOL! Seriously, people use the term "communist" way out of context!

 

[0roo0roo]

its right wing hate radio influence mcarthy would be proud.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: Nebor
And indeed the ACLU isn't harming them. It's simply ensuring that their organization stays within the confines of the laws and constitution of this nation. If the boyscouts can't help from breaking these rules and laws, then I suppose they won't be able to exist anymore. What a pity. They aren't being illegally harassed.

Originally posted by: NeborThat's sort of a pickle though, because as far as I know, not even the Klu Klux Klan has been kicked out of a public place... Thus, I find this particular approach to the destruction of the Boyscouts to be unfair. Since the goverment can't endorse any particular beliefs, they must allow equal access or no access, as long as it's the SAME access to all groups of people.

Have you really thought out your position on this? These two statements seem to be a direct conflict...

Is the ACLU not harming the Boy Scouts, or is the ACLU unfair to the Boy Scouts? Can't be both...

Your also VERY against the Boy Scouts, OK, that's your right. But you DO seem to support any action that will bring them down, so much in fact that you didn't respond to Joecools' statement:

i think you should rephrase your statement to hope that scouting will become more open minded and inclusive. that makes a lot more sense. or we could do things your way and shut down any organization or company that is biased against any minority group. oh, wait, that would shut down everything, wouldn't it?!

The fact that you want them "destroyed" (lots of hate there) is very telling.

So what did they do to piss in your cheerios?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Nebor

I agree that private organizations should be allowed to accept whom they wish. Indeed it is a right. But that doesn't mean I have to like the way they do things. Consequently, I'll do whatever I can to harm their organization.

I don't disagree with their right, I just disagree with what they're saying. Get it?

No, you are wrong and you don't get it.
If you don't agree with them, that is fine. However that does not mean that you have some sort of dillusional "right" to harm their organization simply because you don't agree with them.
See they have a constitutional right to assemble as they please, however you do NOT have a constitutional right to harm them.

And indeed the ACLU isn't harming them. It's simply ensuring that their organization stays within the confines of the laws and constitution of this nation. If the boyscouts can't help from breaking these rules and laws, then I suppose they won't be able to exist anymore. What a pity. They aren't being illegally harassed.

Consequently, I'll do whatever I can to harm their organization.

Sounds like, though, you would be more than happy to illegally harass them.

The Boy Scouts are being singled out and in a somewhat ironic twist are being persecuted for having a religious affliation. The KKK now seems to have more freedoms than the Boy Scouts of America, and at least to me that is pretty screwed up.

The ACLU is doing a bang up job of screwing more boys over than they profess to be helping. In fact exactly who are they helping? Who is actually being harmed when the Boy Scouts state that members need to hold some religious belief of some sort?
This is so silly why doesn't the ACLU sue Churchs for requiring their members to believe in God? They are both private organizations, they both do civic services, they both hold social events. . . let's just get rid of religious institutions while we are at it.

This isn't about the religious aspect. It's about the Boyscouts banning gays from their organization. That got them a top spot on the ACLU hit list, and now anything they do to step out of line will be closely scrutized by ACLU lawyers. We'll win this battle, if not with one mighty blow, then with a million pin pricks.

:thumbsup:

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Originally posted by: Nebor
And indeed the ACLU isn't harming them. It's simply ensuring that their organization stays within the confines of the laws and constitution of this nation. If the boyscouts can't help from breaking these rules and laws, then I suppose they won't be able to exist anymore. What a pity. They aren't being illegally harassed.

Originally posted by: NeborThat's sort of a pickle though, because as far as I know, not even the Klu Klux Klan has been kicked out of a public place... Thus, I find this particular approach to the destruction of the Boyscouts to be unfair. Since the goverment can't endorse any particular beliefs, they must allow equal access or no access, as long as it's the SAME access to all groups of people.

Have you really thought out your position on this? These two statements seem to be a direct conflict...

Is the ACLU not harming the Boy Scouts, or is the ACLU unfair to the Boy Scouts? Can't be both...

Your also VERY against the Boy Scouts, OK, that's your right. But you DO seem to support any action that will bring them down, so much in fact that you didn't respond to Joecools' statement:

i think you should rephrase your statement to hope that scouting will become more open minded and inclusive. that makes a lot more sense. or we could do things your way and shut down any organization or company that is biased against any minority group. oh, wait, that would shut down everything, wouldn't it?!

The fact that you want them "destroyed" (lots of hate there) is very telling.

So what did they do to piss in your cheerios?

The ACLU is harming the Boyscouts, but they're not being unfair. They're following the letter of the law.

Personally, I'd rather see the Boyscouts destroyed than reformed. But I can understand that others might want to see them change their ways, and simply be more accepting of minorities.