My topic pretty much says it all. Will the bartons be realeased with a 400 mhz fsb and does AMD have soemthing like intels Hyper Threading? Will future AMD processors have them?
Barton 400mhz FSB question and will AMD have a version of HT?
- Thread starter Wurrmm
- Start date
Of course, time will tell if AMD will continue that stance. AMD is pushing their Athlon64, which is a much different approah they have done in the past: copying Intel. If the market demads HT, I would bet AMD will implement it.
vash
Still though...will bartons be released with a 400mhz?? I want to upgrade my CPU soon and if the Barton stops at 333 I will just make the move to intel.
DannyBoy
Diamond Member
Make the move to intel and i will never talk to you again.
J/k, but seriously, stick with AMD if you are planning on upgrading anytime soon.
Give AMD a chance to catchup with Intel. They always have a few tricks up there...err..sumthings, which they dont like to tell people about straight away.
Dan
If you ask me, Intel seems to always have the worse upgrade paths..
look at the different versions of P3, and how most of them didn't work wif your old motherboard. Look at the P4, change of socket, then upping of FSB (and i dun think u could run them underclocks on ur old mobo either..), its a double edged sword this intel is :/
look at the different versions of P3, and how most of them didn't work wif your old motherboard. Look at the P4, change of socket, then upping of FSB (and i dun think u could run them underclocks on ur old mobo either..), its a double edged sword this intel is :/
As opposed to:
Slot A
Socket A 200
Socket A 266 SDR
Socket A 266 DDR
Socket A 333
I would say the upgrade paths are no better for AMD. Slot A was obsoleted just as quickly by AMD as S423 was by Intel.
hmm id say that you can still use ur XP on a socket a 266 SDR unlike most P4's cant be used on most anything old or newer
i dont know intels exact upgrade but they come out with new sockets all the time
I am fond of AMD and currently run an A7N8X Deluxe with an XP1700+. However, when May/June roles around I want to do a MAJOR upgrade. Basically, if I don't see Bartons with a 400mhz fsb I will get a canterwood based mobo and either a new 800mhz FSB northwood or prescott in the 2.4ghz to 3.2ghz range. Though it is like that the upgrade after my May/June upgrade will be to a Hammer, but that won't be until late 2004, early 2005.
Barton's with 400mhz FSB were on AMD's roadmap at E3. The uncertainty is whether or not current mobos would be able to support them. I would say that older KT333 boards will not be able to support 400mhz FSB (due to divider and possibly multiplier limitations), and that KT400 and nForce2 will most likely be able to support them with a simple BIOS update. There is no official support currently, but again, the need isn't there as the chips are unreleased. Both boards have the tools to support 400mhz FSB, as many people are running those speeds currently. The nForce2 boards don't currently have a 400mhz jumper, only 200mhz and 266mhz/333mhz, but support for Barton will most likely come via a BIOS detection based on the Barton's CPUID.
The real concern is if Barton will be able to take advantage of a 400mhz FSB. In Anand's review of the 3000+ XP (or any other XP), there is little performance gain simply b/c the clockspeeds aren't there to use the extra bandwidth. He also says it outright, saying that Barton will need to ramp considerably to see any gains from a 400mhz FSB.
For those who are comparing AMD's upgrade path to Intel's its pretty pointless, as improvements in technology require upgrades to the entire system platform. But there is no doubt that AMD has provided a more uniform upgrade path. Socket A has been unchanged since its inception (462 pins), and offers the most flexibility between chipsets. Up until 333mhz FSB chips were introduced in September, most KT133A boards could support top of the line Athlon XP's. The same can NOT be said for Intel platforms. Of course you can argue that AMD chipsets have offered less in terms of performance between upgrades, which is also true.
If you are thinking about upgrading and spending top dollar, I would certainly wait for Canterwood. A Prescott or even Northwood with 200mhz FSB with dual-channel DDR and HT will leave no doubt who the desktop performance king will be. AMD will certainly still hold the price/performance crown b/c such an Intel set-up will be ungodly expensive, but I'm expecting Intel to distance themselves considerably.
Chiz
The real concern is if Barton will be able to take advantage of a 400mhz FSB. In Anand's review of the 3000+ XP (or any other XP), there is little performance gain simply b/c the clockspeeds aren't there to use the extra bandwidth. He also says it outright, saying that Barton will need to ramp considerably to see any gains from a 400mhz FSB.
For those who are comparing AMD's upgrade path to Intel's its pretty pointless, as improvements in technology require upgrades to the entire system platform. But there is no doubt that AMD has provided a more uniform upgrade path. Socket A has been unchanged since its inception (462 pins), and offers the most flexibility between chipsets. Up until 333mhz FSB chips were introduced in September, most KT133A boards could support top of the line Athlon XP's. The same can NOT be said for Intel platforms. Of course you can argue that AMD chipsets have offered less in terms of performance between upgrades, which is also true.
If you are thinking about upgrading and spending top dollar, I would certainly wait for Canterwood. A Prescott or even Northwood with 200mhz FSB with dual-channel DDR and HT will leave no doubt who the desktop performance king will be. AMD will certainly still hold the price/performance crown b/c such an Intel set-up will be ungodly expensive, but I'm expecting Intel to distance themselves considerably.
Chiz
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
- 308
- 126
AMD has previously filed patents for their version of SMT, so it may appear sometime in the future.
Since Barton is the Celeron killer don't expect it to appear on this core. Perhaps it will come in Hammer.
If AMD was going to torture Intel they'd of released x86-64 instructions, SSE2 support, and the use of SMT in the Barton core.
Since Barton is the Celeron killer don't expect it to appear on this core. Perhaps it will come in Hammer.
If AMD was going to torture Intel they'd of released x86-64 instructions, SSE2 support, and the use of SMT in the Barton core.
Much different approach than the Athlon anyway, before that AMD was almost purely about copying intel
Ah, now I feel like firing up my AMD 486dx4-133...Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't HT be drasticly less useful on an Athlon than it is on a P4 because of the pipeline lengths? Question was about a Barton after all to start with, honestly I haven't bothered reading about the Hammer other than to see it's not around (yet won an award, bizarre).
The biggest diffrence is that hte last 4 that you mention are all the SAME socket they only require BIOS updates to use, intell has changed thier sockets numerus times.
Xenon- Socket 604
Pent4-Socket 478
Pent3/New cellies-Socket 370
I can stick my new XP into a old Duron mobo(assuming i can flash it with an updated BIOS) and it will work. I can do a simple MOD to change my XP to MP and stick it in a SMP enviroment. Can i stick a p4 into a p3 mobo? no. Can i modd my p4 to run Dual server? No
So lets think, upgrade from p3 to p4. Whoops need new mobo at least, if not also new ram because Intel switched from SD to RD and now you can use RD or DDR wow... so similar to AMD where i can stick my XP into my old T-bird mobo(again with new bios) and use my old SDRAM if i wanted to.
Since Slocket, Intel has come out with 3 diffrent socket types... AMD 1. lets think..... whos road map is better?
I do concede that the new Hammer will have a diffrent PGA but they have changed FAR less than intel and i doubt intel can claim that they have manged to Wow many AMD enginers, but with the hammer, even intel says its a WoW processor if it can do what it promises.
I do recall reading that the P4s had really long pipeline length. I may get a better bang for my buck by going AMD, but only time will tell what I get. I don't plan on getting new stuff till May so I will just have to keep my eye out for reviews. Bascially....if the review shows that the Intel does not lead the Barton by that much then I will just go with the Barton until my Hammer days. If I were upgrading now, I would definately go AMD cause the performance increase that I would get from an Intel would not be worth the extra cash. I can't wait for the magic month of May though!!
Oh, my plan is to spend around 1800-2000USD on a New CPU, GPU, Memory, PSU, CPU cooler, and if I go Intel, a new mobo (have an A7N8X deluxe now). As far as GPU goes, I am at a loss for words at the abismal GeforceFX 5800 Ultra. If I have to (I have been a pretty loyal Nvidia customer), I will go with the latest Radeon. I just hope the NV35 is good. I don't want to wait till Q3-Q4, but it may be worth it.
Oh, my plan is to spend around 1800-2000USD on a New CPU, GPU, Memory, PSU, CPU cooler, and if I go Intel, a new mobo (have an A7N8X deluxe now). As far as GPU goes, I am at a loss for words at the abismal GeforceFX 5800 Ultra. If I have to (I have been a pretty loyal Nvidia customer), I will go with the latest Radeon. I just hope the NV35 is good. I don't want to wait till Q3-Q4, but it may be worth it.
mechBgon
Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
- Oct 31, 1999
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With the board you have now, throw in an AthlonXP 3000+ and decent cooling (Thermalright SLK-800 + YS Tech adjustable-RPM 80mm fan), add some fairly good memory, drop the multiplier, raise the bus speed, lock the AGP to 66MHz and see how far you get. You might be able to make your own 400MHz-based Barton
I read that setting the bus to 200mhz(400mhz) is unstable and can only stably go up to 180mhz(360mhz).
Sounds rather tempting. My CPU upgrade choices as mentioned ealier are more straight forward. Basically, Bang for Buck is going to play a heavy role. But my GPU choice is quite difficult. I have high hopes for the NV35 but I need soemthing in the mean time. I doubt my puny GF3 Ti500 will serve me well in games such as Tomb Raider Angel of Darkness or Dues Ex 2. I am big on quality and even though I am ok now, the games of tomorrow need better stuff to look better. Does anybody know about the NV35?? Even a light version of the GFX would serve me. In all due likelyhood I will probably get an inexpesive 9700 pro with the 9900pros come out or even the 9900pro if it looks good.
my wife has an A7N8X deluxe with an unlocked 2200+.. we got it running at 200x10 with memory at 2-2-2-4 synchronized and 100% stable. unfortunately we're the lucky ones.
Wcpuid
SiSoft Memory
SiSoft CPU
From my experiences with trying to overclock the FSB to 200 synch'd... Its very unlikely that the currently Nforce2 chipsets will be able to handle 400MHz.. not a lot of people are lucky like us.. The odds that your setup can get to the magical 200 or even go beyond is very very slim and the majority of people will never see this, not even with a bios update... The problem here is not about the memory reaching those speeds or even the cpu, the problem is the northbridge... some people have tried raising the vcc voltage on it, for some it works but for many it doesnt. ... if there ever was a barton with 400MHz bus, they'll probably be an official chipset release coninciding with it. and yo'll probably end up having to buy a new motherbaord with it... and if that were the case, you might as well just wait for the hammer. so which brings us back to is it really worth having a barton at 400MHz with hammer on the horizon.
Wcpuid
SiSoft Memory
SiSoft CPU
From my experiences with trying to overclock the FSB to 200 synch'd... Its very unlikely that the currently Nforce2 chipsets will be able to handle 400MHz.. not a lot of people are lucky like us.. The odds that your setup can get to the magical 200 or even go beyond is very very slim and the majority of people will never see this, not even with a bios update... The problem here is not about the memory reaching those speeds or even the cpu, the problem is the northbridge... some people have tried raising the vcc voltage on it, for some it works but for many it doesnt. ... if there ever was a barton with 400MHz bus, they'll probably be an official chipset release coninciding with it. and yo'll probably end up having to buy a new motherbaord with it... and if that were the case, you might as well just wait for the hammer. so which brings us back to is it really worth having a barton at 400MHz with hammer on the horizon.
I may get a hammer system, but that is far in the future. My own personal road map shows me getting something like that in Q3 2004 to Q2 2005. I need something to carry me though till then while only possibly upgrading the GPU. I read that the Nforce2s are suppose to beable to hit it just fine with proper CPU support.
mechBgon
Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
- Oct 31, 1999
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In bang for the buck, the 2500+ might be a good one to watch as time goes by. jonnyGURU previewed one and it overclocked substantially with air cooling. In the GPU area... heh, your signature is correct, your cast-off GF3 Ti500 is a darn sight better than my $49 GF2 GTS-V.
BIOS updates also work for the P4 platform too.
Different segment. AMD is following suit by differentiating their multiprocessing lineup and desktop lineup the same way in the future. Really, the only upgrading advantage AMD has at the moment, but its MP chipset is getting outdated.
Analagous to AMD's Slot A to Socket A transition
Last generation product. Do we care about the K6 too?
So lets think, upgrade from K6 to K7. Whoops need new mobo at least, if not also new ram because AMD switched from SD to DDR... so similar to Intel where i can stick my P4 into my old i845 mobo(again with new bios) and use my old SDRAM if i wanted to.
Older Socket 478 motherboards work just as well with recent P4s as do older Socket 423 motherboards do with recent Athlons. If you want to go to unofficial means, then even Socket 423 motherboards can use recent Northwoods with an adapter, which is more than one can say for Slot A motherboard owners.
It may have been WoW in 2001, or 2002, but in 2003 it could be just another CPU. And unsuprisingly, it will require two new sockets, not unlike P3->P4, Xeon.
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