Bitek
Lifer
- Aug 2, 2001
- 10,647
- 5,220
- 136
It was a great and courageous speech for some of the reasons listed above. It is also another example of how Obama actually treats the voters with respect of their intelligence and offers introspective, thoughtful and at times complex arguments instead of going for cheap soundbites. Can't really say the same for many other politicians. The problem with appealing to the above-average intelligence voter is that you are always going after the minority.
Cliffs:
Blacks are angry for long held and historical reasons. While their anger is understandable, sometimes justified, it is counterproductive and distorts their world view. Some anger is misplaced and unfairly based. Wright is one of these.
Whites are also angry for perceived injustices and some built in advantages for minorities. Some anger is justified, but some is unfair and also counterproductive.
Blacks and whites don't always understand each other and each other's historical perspective. B&W have had fear and mistrust of each other, and he's been in a unique position
to see both sides. Regardless, B&W need to move beyond anger and resentment to solve their problems, work together to benefit all.
Blacks need to stop the culture of victimization. Need to take responsibility for themselves, their families, their communities and pull themselves up. Fathers need to take better care of the children, and work towards better education for more opportunity.
Whites need to understand some of the historical legacies of black mistreatment, humiliation, and disenpowerment as a major factor in their plight. They are not hopeless however. They don't need handouts, but at least good/equal opportunities for education so they can lift themselves up.
Ultimately that is the key to lift both races up, heal the rift, and see continued progress in America. [Obama] is hopeful, but not starry-eyed. This will take years if not generations, and will not be easily pasted over by his mere candidacy. The benefits to our communities, our cities and everyone's well being are worth the patience however.
___________________________________________________________________________
What Obama is saying is directly opposite of what other black "leaders" like JJ and Sharpton have been doing. They press blacks as victims, deserve welfare and handouts, and all the other baggage that actually keeps blacks down. They also push the racial divide, while Obama wants to close it. Remember how he didn't run off to protest the Jena 6, despite the criticism he endured? I think is genuine in his efforts and promises to become a different breed of black leader that bring people together rather than pull apart for political opportunity. Obama also has a unique prospective of living in both white and black cultures, and sees the benefits and pitfalls on both sides.
Should Obama just have abandoned the church if he didn't like all the statements? IDK. It certainly would have been the easy thing to do. However he seems to be taking a more difficult but more daring angle of trying to change things from the inside. For this I admire his efforts. While more needs to be said on the issue, I see some shimmers of what attracted him to the church, basically their message of empowerment, responsibility, dedication to family and self-reliance. Ironically these are very "conservative" positions.
Its easy to cartoon the men based on a few fiery comments overplayed and taken out of context. I do not pretend to understand black culture. I am willing to reserve judgment for now, as Obama's words and actions have always seemed heartfelt, passionate, principled, good-willed for all. None of his actions nor he way he has run his campaign for the last 14mos suggests he is militant or hateful towards anyone.
If we are going to start damning everyone based on the stupid comments of their associations, I would think very few of us would would escape the pillory.
Edit: Edited to fix thread formatting
Fern
AnandTech P&N Moderator
Cliffs:
Blacks are angry for long held and historical reasons. While their anger is understandable, sometimes justified, it is counterproductive and distorts their world view. Some anger is misplaced and unfairly based. Wright is one of these.
Whites are also angry for perceived injustices and some built in advantages for minorities. Some anger is justified, but some is unfair and also counterproductive.
Blacks and whites don't always understand each other and each other's historical perspective. B&W have had fear and mistrust of each other, and he's been in a unique position
to see both sides. Regardless, B&W need to move beyond anger and resentment to solve their problems, work together to benefit all.
Blacks need to stop the culture of victimization. Need to take responsibility for themselves, their families, their communities and pull themselves up. Fathers need to take better care of the children, and work towards better education for more opportunity.
Whites need to understand some of the historical legacies of black mistreatment, humiliation, and disenpowerment as a major factor in their plight. They are not hopeless however. They don't need handouts, but at least good/equal opportunities for education so they can lift themselves up.
Ultimately that is the key to lift both races up, heal the rift, and see continued progress in America. [Obama] is hopeful, but not starry-eyed. This will take years if not generations, and will not be easily pasted over by his mere candidacy. The benefits to our communities, our cities and everyone's well being are worth the patience however.
___________________________________________________________________________
What Obama is saying is directly opposite of what other black "leaders" like JJ and Sharpton have been doing. They press blacks as victims, deserve welfare and handouts, and all the other baggage that actually keeps blacks down. They also push the racial divide, while Obama wants to close it. Remember how he didn't run off to protest the Jena 6, despite the criticism he endured? I think is genuine in his efforts and promises to become a different breed of black leader that bring people together rather than pull apart for political opportunity. Obama also has a unique prospective of living in both white and black cultures, and sees the benefits and pitfalls on both sides.
Should Obama just have abandoned the church if he didn't like all the statements? IDK. It certainly would have been the easy thing to do. However he seems to be taking a more difficult but more daring angle of trying to change things from the inside. For this I admire his efforts. While more needs to be said on the issue, I see some shimmers of what attracted him to the church, basically their message of empowerment, responsibility, dedication to family and self-reliance. Ironically these are very "conservative" positions.
Its easy to cartoon the men based on a few fiery comments overplayed and taken out of context. I do not pretend to understand black culture. I am willing to reserve judgment for now, as Obama's words and actions have always seemed heartfelt, passionate, principled, good-willed for all. None of his actions nor he way he has run his campaign for the last 14mos suggests he is militant or hateful towards anyone.
If we are going to start damning everyone based on the stupid comments of their associations, I would think very few of us would would escape the pillory.
Edit: Edited to fix thread formatting
Fern
AnandTech P&N Moderator
Obamas speech should be of great concern and give pause to everyone where he went as light and as gently as possible on his pastor and his pastor?s words. There was no outrage, no scorching condemnation, and no denial of actual statements by statement no level of passion one would expect from someone to says he denounces racism by all and no one cares.
It is apparent most people just want to sweep it under the rug like it is no big deal or excuse it just because the racist rants were only directed at White people and it is appalling.
Imagine if Romney?s pastor had made similar racist rants about Blacks? The outrage would have been so fierce that not only would he have been kicked out of the race he would be booted from politics for good.
Imagine what an Obama speech about that would have been like, the unbridled outrage, ferocious fervor and fiery condemnation of every word of that pastors statements that he would have delivered?
That is kind of speech Obama should have delivered, instead he used his own grandmother to try and balance the scales and give he Pastor a fee pass.
It is time to stop judging the Obama book by its cover and start flipping some pages. Here is some history on Obama you might find interesting;
Barack Obama, Man of Faith
Trinity United Church of Christ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone
State Sen. James Meeks sounds just about as unhinged as Wright.
Video
Not only does this allude to the kind of abhorrent behavior by those who have given Obama guidance and that has been going on for quite some time. This shows the type of values that Obama has been taught and immersed in the past 20 years and why he basically gives his Pastor a pass while sacrificing his white grandmother in the process.
This Black theology is nothing but christian extremism and Rev. Wright preaches Black theology, Obama has willfully attended his church for 20 years thus can only be seen as a believer of this Black theology himself which makes him a questionable leader for the United States.
How can we have a president that obviously believes in this kind of extremist theology then jump on Muslims about theirs?
Knowing this how can we be sure he wants to be the president of Americia and not just the president of Black America?
Something to think about anyway.
Barack Obama, Man of Faith
Trinity United Church of Christ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone
State Sen. James Meeks sounds just about as unhinged as Wright.
Video
Not only does this allude to the kind of abhorrent behavior by those who have given Obama guidance and that has been going on for quite some time. This shows the type of values that Obama has been taught and immersed in the past 20 years and why he basically gives his Pastor a pass while sacrificing his white grandmother in the process.
This Black theology is nothing but christian extremism and Rev. Wright preaches Black theology, Obama has willfully attended his church for 20 years thus can only be seen as a believer of this Black theology himself which makes him a questionable leader for the United States.
How can we have a president that obviously believes in this kind of extremist theology then jump on Muslims about theirs?
Knowing this how can we be sure he wants to be the president of Americia and not just the president of Black America?
Something to think about anyway.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
Irrelevant, as how Obama and Hillary are near identical on the issues. This isn't the general election yet, it's nominee picking time. I'm sure Obama supporters don't want to talk about this and want to talk about issues, but I think we've heard enough about their different takes on healthcare.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 173
- 106
It's been observed by many that Obama gave a lower-key speech purposefully, which is befitting the topic.
No need to whip eveybody up and have riots in the streets. Passions are already too easily inflamed in discussions of race.
BTW: He had denounced & rejected Rev Wright's statements a zillion times. The speech was (properly IMO) directed at the larger issue of race in general, instead of just Wright's specific comments.
Fern
Another idiot who obviously hasn't listened to (or understood) the speech. He gave no one a pass. He had denounced his pastor repeatedly. Probably dozens of times by now. The fact that you mistook a sober discussion of the real problems facing America today for a lack of passion about the subject shows just how small minded you are. Not only do you expect worthless demagoguery out of politicians, but when they try to be responsible and discuss something like an adult you act like that's a bad thing. He mentioned his grandmother to show an example from his own family, that's a way to show you that everyone is touched by this... not just some abstraction. Stop listening to Sean Hannity.
Anyways guys... this is Socio talking. He is a racist. I don't mean this as a personal attack, I mean this as a fact. You should do a search on his posts in other threads and see for yourselves before you take anything he has to say seriously.
exactly. frankly, when it comes to obama and hillary, there are no issues to talk about - they're exactly the same when it comes to the issues, so the only thing left to do is judge them on other things.
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