Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
On ABC News tonight, they mentioned a latest poll giving McCain a 6% lead over Obama when it was a dead even last week.
No they didn't. I have it in my DVR and they NEVER mentioned anything like that.
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
On ABC News tonight, they mentioned a latest poll giving McCain a 6% lead over Obama when it was a dead even last week.
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
HE knew. But (he said) he didn't know it was this bad.
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.
I'm sorry but have you actually listened to the things this pastor is saying in the audio clips? Saying them even once is offensive enough, but this man has said them numerous times. I would love to hear how there could be ANY logical explanation for the things he has said.
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.
I'm sorry but have you actually listened to the things this pastor is saying in the audio clips? Saying them even once is offensive enough, but this man has said them numerous times. I would love to hear how there could be ANY logical explanation for the things he has said.
Why does there have to be a logical explanation for the things he said?
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.
I'm sorry but have you actually listened to the things this pastor is saying in the audio clips? Saying them even once is offensive enough, but this man has said them numerous times. I would love to hear how there could be ANY logical explanation for the things he has said.
Why does there have to be a logical explanation for the things he said?
Because he could possibly become the spiritual advisor for the next possible President of the United States? Just for starters.
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.
I'm sorry but have you actually listened to the things this pastor is saying in the audio clips? Saying them even once is offensive enough, but this man has said them numerous times. I would love to hear how there could be ANY logical explanation for the things he has said.
Why does there have to be a logical explanation for the things he said?
Because he could possibly become the spiritual advisor for the next possible President of the United States? Just for starters.
Originally posted by: chowderhead
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.
I'm sorry but have you actually listened to the things this pastor is saying in the audio clips? Saying them even once is offensive enough, but this man has said them numerous times. I would love to hear how there could be ANY logical explanation for the things he has said.
Why does there have to be a logical explanation for the things he said?
Because he could possibly become the spiritual advisor for the next possible President of the United States? Just for starters.
Obama is running on his superior judgment. Does he have good judgment by having a 20 year close relationship with this minister (calling him his moral compass and spiritual adviser)? That is a very relevant question for voters to judge especially since he is running on judgment.
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Obama has said he disagrees with the views Wright expressed, in fact he's said it several times now, and I have no reason to think he's lying. Obama has also denounced Wright in general...making your prediction pretty unlikely. Whatever Wright says or thinks, the chance that it has had (or will have) any influence on Obama seems pretty minimal...so what do I care what Wright is running off his mouth about?
Originally posted by: chowderhead
...
Edit: Obama only denounced Wright's statements after the videos surfaced. Previously, he referred to the blame America for 9/11 statement as the minister trying to be provocative.
How do you know what's been going on the past 20 years?Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Obama has said he disagrees with the views Wright expressed, in fact he's said it several times now, and I have no reason to think he's lying. Obama has also denounced Wright in general...making your prediction pretty unlikely. Whatever Wright says or thinks, the chance that it has had (or will have) any influence on Obama seems pretty minimal...so what do I care what Wright is running off his mouth about?
What you are missing is that Wright already HAS influenced Obama's views. FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS!
So Obama is either completely ignorant to attend a church for 20 years and not know the beliefs of his own pastor. Not only a pastor, but one whom he considered at one point a spiritual advisor and close friend.
OR
Obama is a black separatist like his pastor who now tries to backpedal once the heat is on.
I'd give Obama the benefit of the doubt and say he probably falls under the first category. Though, thats not a good place to be when your entire platform is based on what he has.
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.
Originally posted by: Rainsford
How do you know what's been going on the past 20 years?Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Obama has said he disagrees with the views Wright expressed, in fact he's said it several times now, and I have no reason to think he's lying. Obama has also denounced Wright in general...making your prediction pretty unlikely. Whatever Wright says or thinks, the chance that it has had (or will have) any influence on Obama seems pretty minimal...so what do I care what Wright is running off his mouth about?
What you are missing is that Wright already HAS influenced Obama's views. FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS!
So Obama is either completely ignorant to attend a church for 20 years and not know the beliefs of his own pastor. Not only a pastor, but one whom he considered at one point a spiritual advisor and close friend.
OR
Obama is a black separatist like his pastor who now tries to backpedal once the heat is on.
I'd give Obama the benefit of the doubt and say he probably falls under the first category. Though, thats not a good place to be when your entire platform is based on what he has.
Come on...you really think those are the only two options? Pretend for a moment you REALLY are giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and think about it.
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Yeah; maybe he just got carried away a couple of times. :roll:
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.
Yeah; maybe he just got carried away a couple of times. :roll:
Originally posted by: Rainsford
How do you know what's been going on the past 20 years?
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Come on...you really think those are the only two options? Pretend for a moment you REALLY are giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and think about it.
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Too little too late. Damage already done.
How so?
Because people like Sinsear have been jumping up and down on this story for a while now, and whoever believed the charges isn't going to change their mind. The smear has been around long enough to sink in. Lucky for Obama, I don't think it matters. While this provided yet another reason for folks who weren't going to vote for Obama to not vote for Obama, I'm not sure it convinced anyone else.
Originally posted by: chowderhead
Originally posted by: Rainsford
How do you know what's been going on the past 20 years?Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Obama has said he disagrees with the views Wright expressed, in fact he's said it several times now, and I have no reason to think he's lying. Obama has also denounced Wright in general...making your prediction pretty unlikely. Whatever Wright says or thinks, the chance that it has had (or will have) any influence on Obama seems pretty minimal...so what do I care what Wright is running off his mouth about?
What you are missing is that Wright already HAS influenced Obama's views. FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS!
So Obama is either completely ignorant to attend a church for 20 years and not know the beliefs of his own pastor. Not only a pastor, but one whom he considered at one point a spiritual advisor and close friend.
OR
Obama is a black separatist like his pastor who now tries to backpedal once the heat is on.
I'd give Obama the benefit of the doubt and say he probably falls under the first category. Though, thats not a good place to be when your entire platform is based on what he has.
Come on...you really think those are the only two options? Pretend for a moment you REALLY are giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and think about it.
What's your option. Obama sat in church for 20 years but didn't inhale the message?
Originally posted by: Rainsford
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.
Originally posted by: chowderhead
Originally posted by: Rainsford
How do you know what's been going on the past 20 years?Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Obama has said he disagrees with the views Wright expressed, in fact he's said it several times now, and I have no reason to think he's lying. Obama has also denounced Wright in general...making your prediction pretty unlikely. Whatever Wright says or thinks, the chance that it has had (or will have) any influence on Obama seems pretty minimal...so what do I care what Wright is running off his mouth about?
What you are missing is that Wright already HAS influenced Obama's views. FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS!
So Obama is either completely ignorant to attend a church for 20 years and not know the beliefs of his own pastor. Not only a pastor, but one whom he considered at one point a spiritual advisor and close friend.
OR
Obama is a black separatist like his pastor who now tries to backpedal once the heat is on.
I'd give Obama the benefit of the doubt and say he probably falls under the first category. Though, thats not a good place to be when your entire platform is based on what he has.
Come on...you really think those are the only two options? Pretend for a moment you REALLY are giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and think about it.
What's your option. Obama sat in church for 20 years but didn't inhale the message?
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.
Yeah; maybe he just got carried away a couple of times. :roll:
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
How do you know what's been going on the past 20 years?
Nice dodge.
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Come on...you really think those are the only two options? Pretend for a moment you REALLY are giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and think about it.
Yes, the other option would be to excuse it all. That seems to be what you have chosen. I'm sure you'd be the first to give the same benefit of the doubt if Jerry Fallwell was so close to McCain.