Barack Obama to speak about Rev. Wright, race Tuesday, March 18

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Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Rainsford
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.
Yeah, we should totally buy what the politician says during the campaign. Remember Bush and opposing nation building? Oh how quickly we forget they will say anything to get elected.
Listening to Rev. Wright vitriolic diatribe and looking at Obama's history, do you see a correalation? The only correlation is in helping the poor. If you find anything else, let us know.

BTW, wasn't there supposed to be some major announcement today? Chowderhead or Daveymark said there was, but it didn't happen.
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,461
80
86
Now, I can see where Obama's wife get her sentiments from also. What a couple huh?

But, Obotsma, just close your eyes because after all, dare I say it?... Ignorant is bliss.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,501
3,985
126
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.

I can't
You don't have to, the man married the evidence.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.

Yeah; maybe he just got carried away a couple of times. :roll:
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.

I can't; but it doesn't matter; only perception matters. The damage has been done. Not everyone is as enlightened or learned as the people in here. The average voter is turned off by that nonsense.

And I'm not spreading FUD at all. I don't really care what Obama says. He can heal the blind and turn water into wine, but I'm still not going to vote for him. Even McCain, in his hour long with Hannity debunked this connection between Obama and his pastor, saying he knows Obama doesn't share those views; but to the average voter, who is not as smart as you and I, many will not get past this.
Well that's politics...and that's another problem. I think the average voter is smarter than you might think, but I think the people flogging this story are DEFINITELY smart enough. The only reason this story is getting so much press is that it seems like the kind of thing that might sway the average voter. I would be surprised if many people ACTUALLY believed there was a link, or if, like McCain, they thought the connection between Obama's views and the pastor's views was minimal at best.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,434
79
91
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.

I can't
You don't have to, the man married the evidence.
Yeah; she did basically come right out and say it...
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.

I can't
You don't have to, the man married the evidence.
You mean that one line? That's some pretty compelling evidence, I'm convinced.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,434
79
91
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.

Yeah; maybe he just got carried away a couple of times. :roll:
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.

I can't; but it doesn't matter; only perception matters. The damage has been done. Not everyone is as enlightened or learned as the people in here. The average voter is turned off by that nonsense.

And I'm not spreading FUD at all. I don't really care what Obama says. He can heal the blind and turn water into wine, but I'm still not going to vote for him. Even McCain, in his hour long with Hannity debunked this connection between Obama and his pastor, saying he knows Obama doesn't share those views; but to the average voter, who is not as smart as you and I, many will not get past this.
Well that's politics...and that's another problem. I think the average voter is smarter than you might think, but I think the people flogging this story are DEFINITELY smart enough. The only reason this story is getting so much press is that it seems like the kind of thing that might sway the average voter. I would be surprised if many people ACTUALLY believed there was a link, or if, like McCain, they thought the connection between Obama's views and the pastor's views was minimal at best.

I am surprised that you would be surprised that American voters would fall victim to propaganda.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Isn't the "next question" whether or not Obama knew of Wright's views? So far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Obama DID know.
Then I guess that shows an even bigger flaw in Obama's judgement. He attended a separatist church for 20 years and didnt even know the pastor's views for those 20 years!
Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.

Yeah; maybe he just got carried away a couple of times. :roll:
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.

I can't; but it doesn't matter; only perception matters. The damage has been done. Not everyone is as enlightened or learned as the people in here. The average voter is turned off by that nonsense.

And I'm not spreading FUD at all. I don't really care what Obama says. He can heal the blind and turn water into wine, but I'm still not going to vote for him. Even McCain, in his hour long with Hannity debunked this connection between Obama and his pastor, saying he knows Obama doesn't share those views; but to the average voter, who is not as smart as you and I, many will not get past this.
Well that's politics...and that's another problem. I think the average voter is smarter than you might think, but I think the people flogging this story are DEFINITELY smart enough. The only reason this story is getting so much press is that it seems like the kind of thing that might sway the average voter. I would be surprised if many people ACTUALLY believed there was a link, or if, like McCain, they thought the connection between Obama's views and the pastor's views was minimal at best.

I am surprised that you would be surprised that American voters would fall victim to propaganda.
I meant I would be surprised if the people PUSHING this story actually believed it. At best, I think the average voter will forget about it by November...people who propaganda works best on aren't the types with long memories.
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
Obama has said many times he considered this pastor a close friend and spiritual advisor. He's attended the church for 20 years and now we are supposed to believe he never had that much influence over Obama in the first place?

Obama even named his friggin book "The Audacity of Hope" after a sermon the pastor once gave.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,434
79
91
Originally posted by: Rainsford

Well that's politics...and that's another problem.

Well that is the only problem. Right/wrong/good/bad, only perception really counts in politics.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,063
495
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.

I can't
You don't have to, the man married the evidence.
You mean that one line? That's some pretty compelling evidence, I'm convinced.
You think her line of thinking only happened in that one second? This has been indoctrinated into the both of them for the past 20 years.

Obama better hope to god there isnt a video of him in the church while this filth is being spewed. Because it will be game over.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
Obama has said many times he considered this pastor a close friend and spiritual advisor. He's attended the church for 20 years and now we are supposed to believe he never had that much influence over Obama in the first place?

Obama even named his friggin book "The Audacity of Hope" after a sermon the pastor once gave.
And that's the point you keep conveniently glossing over. Perhaps this pastor has some good qualities that Obama likes. That could be why he named the book "The Audacity of Hope." Perhaps the pastor isn't all negative all the time. Now, if Obama named the book "God Damn America", you'd have a point...
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
Obama has said many times he considered this pastor a close friend and spiritual advisor. He's attended the church for 20 years and now we are supposed to believe he never had that much influence over Obama in the first place?

Obama even named his friggin book "The Audacity of Hope" after a sermon the pastor once gave.
I'm sure somewhere in that post was evidence that Obama shares the radical views expressed in the videos of Wright, but for the life of me I can't find it.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
Obama has said many times he considered this pastor a close friend and spiritual advisor. He's attended the church for 20 years and now we are supposed to believe he never had that much influence over Obama in the first place?

Obama even named his friggin book "The Audacity of Hope" after a sermon the pastor once gave.
I'm sure somewhere in that post was evidence that Obama shares the radical views expressed in the videos of Wright, but for the life of me I can't find it.
smoke and mirrors.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
Obama has said many times he considered this pastor a close friend and spiritual advisor. He's attended the church for 20 years and now we are supposed to believe he never had that much influence over Obama in the first place?

Obama even named his friggin book "The Audacity of Hope" after a sermon the pastor once gave.
And that's the point you keep conveniently glossing over. Perhaps this pastor has some good qualities that Obama likes. That could be why he named the book "The Audacity of Hope." Perhaps the pastor isn't all negative all the time. Now, if Obama named the book "God Damn America", you'd have a point...
Especially considering that if you read past the cover of the book, it expresses really positive views that would not even appear to be remotely related to anything radical or racist.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,434
79
91
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
Obama has said many times he considered this pastor a close friend and spiritual advisor. He's attended the church for 20 years and now we are supposed to believe he never had that much influence over Obama in the first place?

Obama even named his friggin book "The Audacity of Hope" after a sermon the pastor once gave.
I'm sure somewhere in that post was evidence that Obama shares the radical views expressed in the videos of Wright, but for the life of me I can't find it.
No you won't; but the people who watch TV every night see: "goddamn America" with the words Obama's Pastor and Moral compass right underneath it.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.

I can't
You don't have to, the man married the evidence.
You mean that one line? That's some pretty compelling evidence, I'm convinced.
You think her line of thinking only happened in that one second? This has been indoctrinated into the both of them for the past 20 years.

Obama better hope to god there isnt a video of him in the church while this filth is being spewed. Because it will be game over.
That takes some really incredible parsing abilities to read Wright's comments into what Mrs. Obama said. I mean, you really have to WANT it.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
Obama has said many times he considered this pastor a close friend and spiritual advisor. He's attended the church for 20 years and now we are supposed to believe he never had that much influence over Obama in the first place?

Obama even named his friggin book "The Audacity of Hope" after a sermon the pastor once gave.
And that's the point you keep conveniently glossing over. Perhaps this pastor has some good qualities that Obama likes. That could be why he named the book "The Audacity of Hope." Perhaps the pastor isn't all negative all the time. Now, if Obama named the book "God Damn America", you'd have a point...
Especially considering that if you read past the cover of the book, it expresses really positive views that would not even appear to be remotely related to anything radical or racist.
But that isn't the point. The point is demonization of a grown man who knows how to separate the good from the bad in another man. To some here, you're either good or evil.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
Obama has said many times he considered this pastor a close friend and spiritual advisor. He's attended the church for 20 years and now we are supposed to believe he never had that much influence over Obama in the first place?

Obama even named his friggin book "The Audacity of Hope" after a sermon the pastor once gave.
I'm sure somewhere in that post was evidence that Obama shares the radical views expressed in the videos of Wright, but for the life of me I can't find it.
No you won't; but the people who watch TV every night see: "goddamn America" with the words Obama's Pastor and Moral compass right underneath it.
Fair enough, but we're also talking about reality here...not just politics. And win or lose, I refuse to believe that reality changes based on what people managed to convince a bunch of rubes to believe.
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
Obama has said many times he considered this pastor a close friend and spiritual advisor. He's attended the church for 20 years and now we are supposed to believe he never had that much influence over Obama in the first place?

Obama even named his friggin book "The Audacity of Hope" after a sermon the pastor once gave.
And that's the point you keep conveniently glossing over. Perhaps this pastor has some good qualities that Obama likes. That could be why he named the book "The Audacity of Hope." Perhaps the pastor isn't all negative all the time. Now, if Obama named the book "God Damn America", you'd have a point...
Especially considering that if you read past the cover of the book, it expresses really positive views that would not even appear to be remotely related to anything radical or racist.
I never claimed that Obama's pastor was all racist, all the time. I'm sure he DOES have some good qualities about him.

But yet again, both of you have failed to miss my point that Obama is much more influenced by this man than either of you are ready to admit.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
Obama has said many times he considered this pastor a close friend and spiritual advisor. He's attended the church for 20 years and now we are supposed to believe he never had that much influence over Obama in the first place?

Obama even named his friggin book "The Audacity of Hope" after a sermon the pastor once gave.
I'm sure somewhere in that post was evidence that Obama shares the radical views expressed in the videos of Wright, but for the life of me I can't find it.
No you won't; but the people who watch TV every night see: "goddamn America" with the words Obama's Pastor and Moral compass right underneath it.
And then in the next segment they see how the government is bailing out Wall Street and sending them chump change...
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,625
237
106
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
Obama has said many times he considered this pastor a close friend and spiritual advisor. He's attended the church for 20 years and now we are supposed to believe he never had that much influence over Obama in the first place?

Obama even named his friggin book "The Audacity of Hope" after a sermon the pastor once gave.
Who knows what Obama believes. You already said why should he denounce something until it becomes a story (i.e. video proof). Evasive answers in 2007 were good enough when it wasn't much of a story. Can't prove anything. Probably. But ask his foreign affair adviser who said Obama of course won't follow what he promised as a Presidential candidate with regards to troop withdrawals. Just like in the IL State Senate, Obama was neither yes or no with regards to Reverend Wright ... just present. Maybe he was agnostic.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,063
495
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.

I can't
You don't have to, the man married the evidence.
You mean that one line? That's some pretty compelling evidence, I'm convinced.
You think her line of thinking only happened in that one second? This has been indoctrinated into the both of them for the past 20 years.

Obama better hope to god there isnt a video of him in the church while this filth is being spewed. Because it will be game over.
That takes some really incredible parsing abilities to read Wright's comments into what Mrs. Obama said. I mean, you really have to WANT it.
Not at all. What she is said was outlandish and fits perfectly with the crap this guy has been spewing. You would really have to not WANT to see it.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
Obama has said many times he considered this pastor a close friend and spiritual advisor. He's attended the church for 20 years and now we are supposed to believe he never had that much influence over Obama in the first place?

Obama even named his friggin book "The Audacity of Hope" after a sermon the pastor once gave.
And that's the point you keep conveniently glossing over. Perhaps this pastor has some good qualities that Obama likes. That could be why he named the book "The Audacity of Hope." Perhaps the pastor isn't all negative all the time. Now, if Obama named the book "God Damn America", you'd have a point...
Especially considering that if you read past the cover of the book, it expresses really positive views that would not even appear to be remotely related to anything radical or racist.
I never claimed that Obama's pastor was all racist, all the time. I'm sure he DOES have some good qualities about him. But both of you have failed to miss my point that Obama is much more influenced by this man than either of you are ready to admit.
If your father was a serial womanizer and you saw what it did to your mother, would you be positively or negatively influenced by your father?
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Sinsear
Originally posted by: Rainsford
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.

I can't
You don't have to, the man married the evidence.
You mean that one line? That's some pretty compelling evidence, I'm convinced.
You think her line of thinking only happened in that one second? This has been indoctrinated into the both of them for the past 20 years.

Obama better hope to god there isnt a video of him in the church while this filth is being spewed. Because it will be game over.
That takes some really incredible parsing abilities to read Wright's comments into what Mrs. Obama said. I mean, you really have to WANT it.
Not at all. What she is said was outlandish and fits perfectly with the crap this guy has been spewing. You would really have to not WANT to see it.
She said "For the first time in my adult life...I'm really proud of my country". If you take her words absolutely literally, I still don't see what you all have gotten so worked up about. She's not saying she hates American or has never been proud of her country before...her husband is the first black guy to have a decent shot at being President, I can see why she might say something like that.
 

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