Bar hurts my upper back/neck when doing squats

[The Sauce]

I have been using the Manta since my squat weights started getting up there. Wouldn't squat without it now. When I started out and was squatting light I had it on my shoulders bare, but when I rack 400lbs+ my traps feel like they are ripping off and I sometimes get this "oh shit" moment when it feels like the weight is rolling off backwards, causing me to torque my back to correct. The Manta definitely makes it safer and prevents that from happening. It in no way prevents proper "bar placement," form or stabilizer muscle "tightness" - that would be a Smith Machine. The bar is in the exact same place, just maybe 1cm higher off your shoulders due to the thickness of the device.

If you are lifting light and your shoulders hurt then you are probably just a puss. IF you are going heavy, put a pad or some other device on there. IMO.

 

[Koing]

I have been using the Manta since my squat weights started getting up there. Wouldn't squat without it now. When I started out and was squatting light I had it on my shoulders bare, but when I rack 400lbs+ my traps feel like they are ripping off and I sometimes get this "oh shit" moment when it feels like the weight is rolling off backwards, causing me to torque my back to correct. The Manta definitely makes it safer and prevents that from happening. It in no way prevents proper "bar placement," form or stabilizer muscle "tightness" - that would be a Smith Machine. The bar is in the exact same place, just maybe 1cm higher off your shoulders due to the thickness of the device.

If you are lifting light and your shoulders hurt then you are probably just a puss. IF you are going heavy, put a pad or some other device on there. IMO.

What? You call people squating light being a puss but it's heavy and they use a pad/ manta okay?

People will get use to the bar, it's lack of muscles on their upperback/ traps and the fact that they are not use to it.

Like a deep oly front squat. The bar is close to your neck, people get use to it.

Koing

 

[crt1530]

I have been using the Manta since my squat weights started getting up there. Wouldn't squat without it now. When I started out and was squatting light I had it on my shoulders bare, but when I rack 400lbs+ my traps feel like they are ripping off and I sometimes get this "oh shit" moment when it feels like the weight is rolling off backwards, causing me to torque my back to correct. The Manta definitely makes it safer and prevents that from happening. It in no way prevents proper "bar placement," form or stabilizer muscle "tightness" - that would be a Smith Machine. The bar is in the exact same place, just maybe 1cm higher off your shoulders due to the thickness of the device.

If you are lifting light and your shoulders hurt then you are probably just a puss. IF you are going heavy, put a pad or some other device on there. IMO.

Puss.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I have been using the Manta since my squat weights started getting up there. Wouldn't squat without it now. When I started out and was squatting light I had it on my shoulders bare, but when I rack 400lbs+ my traps feel like they are ripping off and I sometimes get this "oh shit" moment when it feels like the weight is rolling off backwards, causing me to torque my back to correct. The Manta definitely makes it safer and prevents that from happening. It in no way prevents proper "bar placement," form or stabilizer muscle "tightness" - that would be a Smith Machine. The bar is in the exact same place, just maybe 1cm higher off your shoulders due to the thickness of the device.

If you are lifting light and your shoulders hurt then you are probably just a puss. IF you are going heavy, put a pad or some other device on there. IMO.

This post makes no sense. If you're the resident doctor on ATHF, you should at least understand basic biomechanics. Shifting a weight at all, even 1cm, dramatically shifts the center of gravity and transfer of weight on the spine. The manta enables people to have a lose upper back, which is unacceptable in the squat. Sadly, the Manta and the smith machine have more in common than you think. On the smith machine, the weight is distributed poorly, typically putting a greater torque on the low spine. The increase in fulcrum length provided by the Manta Ray maintains a similar function.

If you are lifting light and your shoulders hurt, you're just new and need to stick it out. If you're advanced and lift heavy, you should be experienced enough to know where to place the bar, not buy equipment that enables your laziness to understand the perfect squat. Don't lift heavy if you can't lift right.

 

[BlackTigers]

IF you need a pad, its probably because you were a "puss" to start with and didn't let your traps and delts to develop that shelf the bar rests on.

There's a reason every serious lifter I know calls them pussy pads.

 

[The Sauce]

This post makes no sense. If you're the resident doctor on ATHF, you should at least understand basic biomechanics. Shifting a weight at all, even 1cm, dramatically shifts the center of gravity and transfer of weight on the spine. The manta enables people to have a lose upper back, which is unacceptable in the squat. Sadly, the Manta and the smith machine have more in common than you think. On the smith machine, the weight is distributed poorly, typically putting a greater torque on the low spine. The increase in fulcrum length provided by the Manta Ray maintains a similar function.

If you are lifting light and your shoulders hurt, you're just new and need to stick it out. If you're advanced and lift heavy, you should be experienced enough to know where to place the bar, not buy equipment that enables your laziness to understand the perfect squat. Don't lift heavy if you can't lift right.

As always, your posts make good sense and you are once again making me doubt what I though I knew. You clearly have a better understanding of biomechanics than I do. That being said, I do not perceive of any differency in the tightness of my back or loss of form using the Manta. In fact, when I get heavy and try not using it my form goes completely to shit because I am struggling to find a comfotable spot for the bar and rushing through the set to get it off my shoulders. Also I find that when I am not using it I am struggling to keep the weight from rolling off backwards (only when going max weight) and then I wind up rounding my back to compensate which is truly dangerous. Might be different if I had a spotter but I use a small gym.

Perhaps I am just adapted to it since I have been using it for quite a while and have trouble going back to squatting without it. At the weights I am currently squatting it might be dangerous to switch style abruptly. I see using it as a safe alternative to getting a spot.

 

[The Sauce]

Puss.

I knew I could pull you into this thread

 

[SociallyChallenged]

As always, your posts make good sense and you are once again making me doubt what I though I knew. You clearly have a better understanding of biomechanics than I do. That being said, I do not perceive of any differency in the tightness of my back or loss of form using the Manta. In fact, when I get heavy and try not using it my form goes completely to shit because I am struggling to find a comfotable spot for the bar and rushing through the set to get it off my shoulders. Also I find that when I am not using it I am struggling to keep the weight from rolling off backwards (only when going max weight) and then I wind up rounding my back to compensate which is truly dangerous. Might be different if I had a spotter but I use a small gym.

Perhaps I am just adapted to it since I have been using it for quite a while and have trouble going back to squatting without it. At the weights I am currently squatting it might be dangerous to switch style abruptly. I see using it as a safe alternative to getting a spot.

The problem you have with the weight rolling off your back is a form issue. Have you ever tried low bar squat? If you get your hands close enough on the bar, your deltoids create a wonderful shelf that the bar can rest on. From there, your shoulder/back tightness should squeeze the bar into your upper back. I, too, used to have the same problem as use with high bar squat. When I switched to low bar squat though, it was amazing. In one session, my 5RM went up 15 pounds, my back felt really sturdy, and my legs were getting a much better workout. If you search low bar squat on ATHF, there will be some good form videos (I think). If not, lemme know and I'll PM you some. If you have to use extraneous equipment in weightlifting, that typically means something is wrong. I hope you'll consider what I'm mentioning. Low bar puts a lot less torque on the spine than high bar (and even less than the Manta Ray), which I feel is important for the longevity of your resistance training.

 

[crt1530]

I knew I could pull you into this thread

Don't get too excited. You are now on my Alkemyst list.

 

[PingSpike]

Frank Reynolds: "Just position yourself under the bar and listen to me. Alright, here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna take all the weight on your neck. Then, you're gonna jam your legs down and hyperextend your ankles and then shoot back up and lock your knees in place. "

 

[brikis98]

In fact, when I get heavy and try not using it my form goes completely to shit because I am struggling to find a comfotable spot for the bar and rushing through the set to get it off my shoulders.

It takes time for the traps/shoulders to adjust to holding a weight on them. It also requires proper technique. If you have been using the Manta for a while, you will not be able to suddenly stop using it and continue squatting the same way. You'd have to drop the weight down and work your way back up gradually while you develop your technique and your skin adapts.

Also I find that when I am not using it I am struggling to keep the weight from rolling off backwards (only when going max weight) and then I wind up rounding my back to compensate which is truly dangerous.

This is an even bigger sign that your technique is off w/o the Manta. Do you squat high bar or low bar? Have any videos you can post for a form check?

Might be different if I had a spotter but I use a small gym.

If you have a power rack with safety rails or are squatting with bumper plates and can dump the weight, there is no need for a spotter. In fact, it is very difficult to spot the squat - you need two well trained people - and in many cases, the spotter makes things more dangerous. At any rate, no spotter is going to solve technique problems with keeping the bar on your back.

 

[The Sauce]

Don't get too excited. You are now on my Alkemyst list.

Woohoo, I've been upgraded! Let me know when I get to the Osama BinLaden list.

 

[The Sauce]

I will have to look into this high/low bar thingy. Could be good for me.

 

[coreyb]

go watch some videos of guys squatting with 700+ lbs on their back, then re think why you think you need a manta ray when you squat.

 

[Whisper]

Perhaps I am just adapted to it since I have been using it for quite a while and have trouble going back to squatting without it. At the weights I am currently squatting it might be dangerous to switch style abruptly. I see using it as a safe alternative to getting a spot.

This is what I'd imagine is the case. I'd suggest reducing the weight to something you KNOW you can handle, getting rid of the manta ray, and re-developing proper form. Give the high/low-bar deal a try and see which feels more comfortable to you; there are proponents for both options.

 

[spamsk8r]

Don't get too excited. You are now on my Alkemyst list.

At least TheSauce is open to criticism and different views, so I at least give him that over Alky

 

[The Sauce]

SociallyChallenged always puts me in my place...and he's so darned nice about it how could I possibly argue? Never assume that a medical doctor knows anything about training, nutrition or biomechanics. It's just not in the curriculum (unless you are a Sports Medicine specialist). I study this stuff on the side but that's not the same as being trained for it, and it's just silly to argue with someone who clearly knows more about something.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

SociallyChallenged always puts me in my place...and he's so darned nice about it how could I possibly argue? Never assume that a medical doctor knows anything about training, nutrition or biomechanics. It's just not in the curriculum (unless you are a Sports Medicine specialist). I study this stuff on the side but that's not the same as being trained for it, and it's just silly to argue with someone who clearly knows more about something.

I'm not trying to put anybody in his/her place. I'm just trying to spread what I've learned and know. I really do hope that checking out low bar helps you. I honestly think it will. I'm flattered by your comments, but I'm smarter than putting MD's in their place. I only win at exercise and preventative measures. You win at saving lives. I'm the little fish here.

 

[equity space]

Any type of exercise that hurts your back or neck means you're either doing the exercise wrong or you have already have an injury. Try laying off the squats and replace them with leg presses or use a universal cage so you can make adjustments without causing injury.

 

[Whisper]

Any type of exercise that hurts your back or neck means you're either doing the exercise wrong or you have already have an injury. Try laying off the squats and replace them with leg presses or use a universal cage so you can make adjustments without causing injury.

By universal cage if you mean a power rack, then yes, that could definitely be beneficial in case something "gives out" mid-squat, or you aren't able to finish out a rep. But if you mean a smith machine, then I'd disagree, as they severely limit your range of motion during a squat, and thus could possibly increase your chance of injury.

It's perfectly normal for your back/shoulder muscles and skin to hurt when first beginning squats; doesn't necessarily mean your form is incorrect or you're injured. Squats themselves are perfectly safe, unless--as you've said--you're doing them wrong, or you have a pre-existing injury that would prohibit you from doing them.