Bane's training journal

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

brikis98

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
7,253
8
0
Looking at a mirror while lifting weights is typically discouraged for 3 reasons:

1. As you've already noticed, you obviously can't see all angles, so whatever you are seeing can be very deceptive.
2. If the mirror isn't directly in front of you, you'd have to turn your head to see it. This means you are no longer using proper form for the lift and potentially putting your neck/spine at risk, especially during squats.
3. A key aspect of free weight training is to develop an awareness of where you body is in space. You need to learn to "feel" if your back is in a proper arch, if you're squatting below parallel and so on. If you always rely on mirrors, you'll have trouble developing this sense and maintaining proper form will become very difficult. They can be useful to give you the bio feedback to develop the initial sense, but after some time, you should stop using them completely.

If you are rolling up onto your toes, there are a number of possible culprits:

1. As SC indicated, you might lack flexibility. Tight hamstrings are the most likely culprit, and usually if you have those, you'll have tight glutes, hip flexors and lower back as well. Stretch these for 15 minutes per day and you should see improvement.
2. As you lower into a squat, you need to actively push your knees out (that is, push them away from each other) so that, when viewed from the top, your thigh is directly over your foot. At first, you'll need to do this very deliberately, as most people's knees will actually try to move closer together instead. However, pushing them out will let you get into a deeper, more comfortable squat, make it easier to stay on your heels, and make it easier to engage the posterior chain. Note that this is another area you may lack flexibility: try the squat stretch (as explained in Starting Strength and in this this stronglifts article) - if you feel a burning sensation on the inside of your thighs, or fatigue easily in this position, then you definitely need to practice it more. Use your elbows to push your knees out and work hard to keep a proper back arch while you do it.
3. It's possible that you are starting your squat by just unlocking your knees and dropping downwards. The proper way to start a squat is to actively push your hips backwards. The key here is that you shouldn't just be loosening muscles and dropping down, but instead should descend in a controlled manner while maintaining tightness in all your muscles. If you just collapse downwards, you'll probably end up with improper form. Moreover, it is your hips moving backwards, not your knees bending, that initiates the squat.
4. It's also possible that after reaching the bottom of the squat, you start the motion out of the hole by trying to unbend your knees. The proper way to get out of the whole is to drive up with your glutes. It sounds a bit weird, but you need to start the motion by actively squeezing your glutes - you should actually feel your butt cheeks tighten. This will allow you to engage your posterior chain properly (especially the hamstrings) and will start to lift you out of the hole. Try this a few times with no weight and you'll see how different it feels. If you have trouble engaging your glutes and posterior chain, do the exercises mentioned in this stronglifts article.
5. You need to focus on staying on your heels. A mental cue that helps some people is to be able to curl your toes up while squatting. You won't actually want to do this with real weight on a squat - your feet should stay flat - but doing it with very light weight or no weight will give you the proper feel for staying on your heels.

It's a lot to take in, but the squat isn't an easy lift. I'd recommend practicing air squats (ie, squats with no weight) in your spare time. You can do them at home and safely observe yourself in front of a mirror from multiple angles. You could also get a piece of PVC pipe or a broomstick to simulate a bar on your back without any actual weight. Also, finding someone to take a picture or video tape you at home might be easier than at the gym. Until you can get into a proper air squat - hips joint below knee joint, heels on the floor, proper back arch - you have no business doing weighted squats.
 
Mar 22, 2002
10,483
32
81
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
The mirror is about fifteen feet ahead of me, and it starts about three feet above the ground. I've tried looking at that, but inherently there's no side view, and once I go all the way down I can't see myself really.

No mirrors. Brikis stated the reasons. If you wanna know your form, have a video taken.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
2/19/09

Thanks for the help guys. I'm using stretches for hip mobility and posterior chain power, both from pages at StrongLifts. Additionally, I had to be at the gym today, for class attendance, so I tried a few body weight exercises without already being tired from heavy weights. I'm going to be using a lot of body weight exercises in the next couple weeks during spring break. Lots of stretches, followed by a varied mix of dips, pullups, inverted rows, chinups, et cetera. It's not perfect, but it seems better to my mind than just doing stretches and otherwise lounging around for two weeks. Anyways, from today...

Inverted Rows - 8, 3, 4. Feet flat on the ground lets me get my belly to the bar, not my chest. I'll look at Stronglifts again. Legs straight requires more strength than I have right now though.
Dips - 1, 1, 1. Fun.
Pullups - 2, 2, 2.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
2/23/09

Haven't been back to the gym since last time, this is finals week. However, I did visit a scale, and I'm up to 140 pounds. Just wanted to record this before having two weeks eating at home.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
3/12/09

Good news - I've finally gained some control over my trapezius muscles, so I can bring my arms back by themselves (previously, I leaned against the bar to force them back), and can use what feels to be low bar position without having the bar pressed against bone. Squatting the bar for a few reps felt like nothing, and although my shoulders twinged a few times at being back that far, there was no numbness or sharp pain. I also can get my inverted rows further towards the bar, and I believe that is related. Finally, the hamstring stretch seems to be working, the deep squat position wasn't a problem to be in.

Bad news - I still cannot use my glutes once I'm in the deep squat position, the lifting is still going through my knees. The best I can get to is a sitting position and no further, so I need to keep working on that for a little while.

Having one problem left out of several isn't bad though. I'll go back and keep working on everything except the squat again. Something is better than nothing.
Edit: Oh, and somehow my weight dropped two pounds over the break, despite eating nonstop home cooking. Two pounds isn't really significant, but it was a bit surprising.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
3/16/09

Squat - 5x5x45. No more towel on the bar, hallelujah, and it is definitely in low bar position, hallelujah again. My knees are clicking because the work is still through them, I'm using my glutes whenever I think of it during the day just as practice.
Bench - 5x5x55. Haven't done this in quite a while, it was okay though. My form felt a bit off, probably rusty, but the 20 pound decrease made it very easy.

I ended there. I'm trying to figure out a better time to go during the day, because evenings during the week are sheer fucking lunacy that make me wonder what fire code safety says for number of people in there.

In a funny note, I was thinking... a Smith machine is probably several hundred dollars, and I use it for inverted rows. At least, it was amusing to me.

Edit:
Related - my multivitamin and fish oil arrived recently, now I just need to drag myself off-campus and find serious amounts of milk. Damn my tiny refrigerator! :(
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
3/18/09

SEVENTY fucking various cardio machines, TWO fucking full racks. Sense? This gym goddamned well makes none. Sixteen thousand students, since that information is probably relevant to this mini-rant. Do we really need seventy goddamned treadmills, elliptical bikes, and god only knows what else cardio machines? Just two full racks? Don't worry though, we have machines galore. Pec fly, this fly, that fly, this lift, that lift, even an assisted dip machine (I find this to be one of the most ridiculous). I'll estimate a total of somewhere around... hm, sixty to eighty machines. Most are very simple, not those fancy "hey, you can finance this purchase" all-in-one monstrosities. Or at least, I consider them machines, who knows if that's what they're defined as. Metal bars, grease fittings, stacked pads of weights you link with pins... seems machinery enough for me. Oh, yeah, one deadlift station... meaning one set of those nice bouncy weights for Olympic lifts and such. I would have to say the second floor is about 60% cardio, 30% machines, 10% mats. The first floor is probably a 50/50 split between free weights and machines. *sigh* Okay, I'm done now. Conclusion - going to try another time of day to go, evenings really just don't work.

Since you've evidently read this far though, sorry for the rant. Share your own stories of lopsided gyms? Don't yell at me for being intolerant and/or short-sighted in some way?

Here's a cookie. And a beer. :cookie::beer:
 

conorvansmack

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2004
5,041
0
76
Gyms make money on people that come in for cardio and weight machines and then don't come through on their "resolution." You know why you're there. Your goals are a little different than those of the average gym goer.
 

brikis98

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
7,253
8
0
Originally posted by: conorvansmack
Gyms make money on people that come in for cardio and weight machines and then don't come through on their "resolution." You know why you're there. Your goals are a little different than those of the average gym goer.

Exactly. If everyone trained effectively & consistently, most gyms would be out of business. Most globo gyms that I've gone to are lopsided in the exact same way. The one exception I've seen are Crossfit gyms, which usually have no machines whatsoever, a few C2 rowers and the occasional treadmill, and the rest is freeweights (racks, barbells, weights, dumbbells, kettlebells, rings, climbing ropes, and so on).
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
3/20/09

I found out what it takes to have the gym fairly empty - a Friday night, with two back-to-back championship college hockey games (one involving our team) elsewhere in town. Oh well, I enjoyed it while it was.

Squat - 5x5x45. Still can't use my glutes until about 2/3 up. Paying for my sedentary lifestyle.
Overhead - 5x5x45.
Deadlift - 1x5x85, 1x5x95. My deadlift is back where it was before the break, although it felt heavier now than then.
Pull-ups - 2, 1, 1. So damned close to being 3, 2, 1, but wasn't quite there. The crooks of my elbows felt very strange, worn out and almost as if swollen. Not painful though, so it's trivia.
Weight Stack Bridges - 4x2.5 plates, but my method may have been wrong. Stack starts at right, right arm out, move each plate into a neat stack directly in front. Right arm goes back down, left arm comes up, moves each plate into neat stack to left. Left arm goes down, hold for about five seconds. Left arm out, move stack to front, left down, right up, move stack to right, right down, end. Three sets of that. The video I intended to base this off shows stack at right, left arm comes across, draws weights into stack left, then reverses it.

Anyways, still better than it's been. Nice when there's enough room to walk around. Plus the staff member running the counter had Marilyn Manson and Rammstein playing. :)