Wow you are finally asking the right questions. It's called fear and uncertainty. Why did the stock market crash? why do prices for anything drop? Because investors THINK their earnings in the future will drop.
And it all goes back to liquidity and confidence. Right now the US Treasury is the only power that can restore confidence and liquidity back in the market. The Treasury is effectively lending money via Treasury bills at 1-3% and "lending" it to the troubled banks at a higher markup. This is called arbitrage.
You can't force the market to be confident. You only restore confidence by entering the market and acting on it.
Let me give you an example. Let's say GE stock all of a sudden drops by 60%. No news, no nothing. As far as you know nothing has changed. Would you enter the market and buy GE? Or would you question and second guess yourself? Is there something I don't know? What is going on? Let's say it was a some false temporary rumor that got squashed and the stock recovers.
My guess is you probably wouldn't have bought. But why? It was because at that point in time with the lack of info there was a lack of liquidity and confidence in the stock and it was valued at lower than it was due to FEAR and UNCERTAINTY. That is why the "same investors" aren't buying "the securities directly."
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Anecdotal evidence vs my factual information (from YOUR link) and you're name-calling already? There's the Mill I've come to love.
It is widely considered by both economists and your average Argentine that Argentina is not back to 2001 levels yet.
http://www.economist.com/displ....cfm?story_id=11966983
http://www.economist.com/displ....cfm?story_id=11992841
Or, you can go read the national newspaper. They talk about the shitty state of the economy all the time:
http://www.clarin.com/
But by all means, believe whatever you want especially considering what you posted didn't say the economy was doing well. We are comparing Argentina now to what it was before the collapse (because they defaulted on their debt). Things are still bad. Much of th growth of the past few years has been fueled by commodity prices and a recovery due to losing 20% of GDP during the collapse. Doesn't mean the economy is doing well.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
Well we will certainly see. Even as our entire economy tanks, various Ceo's are still in complete control of many companies. What stops them from pulling the Saddam Hussein trick? Namely ordering their many minions to covert all assets into money and gifting it to the CEO just before all these companies go belly up.
Then they can parade out all their sobbing wives complaining that we can't possibly be so cruel as to take away all their vacation homes as they flee to various countries with no extradition treaty with the USA.
We can get through times of dopes better than we can get through times of no money and absconding dopes. If you think those Ceo's have any plans to share the collective pain, please have your head examined.
Heads they win, tails we lose. Its the golden rule. Proof positive, they can manage our money better than we can.
Then they can parade out all their sobbing wives complaining that we can't possibly be so cruel as to take away all their vacation homes as they flee to various countries with no extradition treaty with the USA.
We can get through times of dopes better than we can get through times of no money and absconding dopes. If you think those Ceo's have any plans to share the collective pain, please have your head examined.
Heads they win, tails we lose. Its the golden rule. Proof positive, they can manage our money better than we can.
Why even try? I've given up on these people, for the most part. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. They'll only finally figure it out when they lose their jobs, or their friends and family do. Then, they'll ask for help, but it'll be too late.
the government sofar has paid nothing for either of those companies, beyond some limited loan guarantees.
in the case of this bill, the minority won't pass it if the minority won't help, because its that controversial.
SlickSnake
Diamond Member
- May 29, 2007
- 5,235
- 2
- 0
Not odd at all, generally this present economic climate is very cyclical and predictable for this time of year. People blew money this summer on gas, vacations and spending money to entertain their kids. Then school starts and they have to spend even more on the little rug rats to buy them new clothes, supplies, checkups at the doctors for shots or teeth, that kind of thing. When this happens, less money is to be had in the major retail sectors as a whole for luxury spending, like new houses, cars or other unneeded items like HT or HDTV or other electronics doodads. So the retail sector as a whole has the hohums about this time every year, in the run up to people saving money to blow later on Xmas.
What this present banking mess means along with expensive gas and other rising bills is that tight consumer spending is going to continue to hurt the economy and luxury retail sectors for the long term and this is NOT going to be a very merry xmas at all this year. Unless you want to either starve or buy a new HDTV. I think most people will choose food over a new HDTV, but quite a few could use to starve for a few months. Hey, I got to eat too, you know. They will be finding people dead in front of their new HDTVs starved to death, whole families even. But at least they will die happy watching Heros in high definition!
And I might add, I have a feeling most of the avid, if not rabid, bailout supporters have some directly vested interest in the government bailing out their companies, assets, stocks, whatever the case may be. It sucks to be you guys, but investing is a risk you choose to take, and it's not forced upon you. Investing is just like gambling, you either win or lose, but most of the time unless you are extremely smart, you are gonna lose at some point and it's not the taxpayers responsibility to bail you out or shore up your poor investments or jobs.
Is it possible to find a link for that? I thought it was a reverse auction so it should be today's current prices with the aim making certain the banks losses so that they can start afresh
This bill will pass, hyperinflation will rear it's ugly head, and Joe Schmoe from Idaho will be the one who suffers the aftermath. Because some enterprises are just too big to fail, right? Hopefully it's worth it to the bill supporters, having the government take such a large role in the country's financial market. The bill is a disgrace, as are the people who support it.
I disagree. They won't even ask for help after they lose their jobs. They will ask for heads to send to the guillotine, and suffer longer. They will blame and finger point more.
SlickSnake
Diamond Member
- May 29, 2007
- 5,235
- 2
- 0
BELIZE is a nice place to live, umm, I mean VISIT, yea, that's what I mean.
It's just far enough away to not suffer the effects of a economic calamity, and they grow most of their own food there, so you won't starve. And most of the people there speak English and the rest speak Spanish, just like in the USA, for now, anyway. :roll:
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
Now is as good a time as any to go on vacation, why rush to be depressed, cheer up, you won't have a job when you come back from vacation.
But don't feel like the lone ranger on the vacation things, its what the entire house is doing, after all, they know in 36 days, they will not have a job either.
IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 72,942
- 34,115
- 136
House rules concerning reconsideration pretty much forced him to vote no when he realized the bill was going down. A bill can only be brought up for reconsideration by a rep who voted with the majority on the original vote. Dole used to get hammered for some of his "inconsistent" votes when this was the reason.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
- 6,197
- 126
Right, because grown men make decisions about one of the most historic votes of their careers not based on their own judgment and convictions, but based on what an opposition leader says the morning of? What she said was what she has been saying for a long time, she is leader of the opposing party, that's her job. Can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen and don't take out your emo problems on the American people. There are plenty of reasons to vote against this bill, but GOP had to pick the most pathetic one they could find.
For those in favor of this bill, please read the following:
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2232845&enterthread=y
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2232845&enterthread=y
SlickSnake
Diamond Member
- May 29, 2007
- 5,235
- 2
- 0
Funny how the college edjumacated robber baron bank robbers feel the need for a taxpayer bailout and a free pass to fix their mistakes. I bet there are a lot of unedjumacated petty thief bank robbers in prison who would like a taxpayer bailout a free pass and a pardon to fix their mistakes, too. :roll:
Remember it was not that long ago in 2005 that the robber baron bank robbers ramrodded through congress the consumer bankruptcy reforms just to keep the citizens on the hook a lot longer and to make it harder to get rid of debt which was caused by banks poor lending practices and bad loans that the banks still write off anyhow. Any attempt to reform credit or lending, banking or corporate business practices regarding bankruptcy in that legislation package, like making companies file bankruptcy in their home states instead of shopping around for the best bankruptcy states to file in, was criticized by the bankruptcy reform lobby promoted and funded by the banking industry, and was removed from the legislation completely. And obviously the banks knew they were in deep trouble years ago, which was why they were so desperate to get this bankruptcy reform passed just the way they wanted it.
The banks wanted to make sure they got a free pass from congress so they could shove the debt pole further up the ass of the consumers, with no accountability on their part. The bankruptcy reform group spearheaded by the banking industry was dissolved after that crappy anticonsumer legislation was passed. And there were no banking or corporate bankruptcy reforms of any substance left in the legislation. The financial lobbies now begging for a taxpayer bailout made damn sure of that.
So is it any wonder that the citizens, you know, those financially burdened and over taxed downtrodden taxpayers, know all too well how nefarious and backstabbing the fascist banking industry really is in these financial matters? Even a stupid person financially can figure out the government is taxing them to death, and even after death, so why should their taxes now go to also fund bank robber barons elite lifestyles? That's what this is all about.
And the banks can still shop around their bankruptcies to the most advantageous state to file in, too. So HURRAY for them, and they need to get after it without asking the taxpayers to foot an ongoing trillion dollar bailout initiative to support bank robber baron business as usual in the financial sectors.
Remember it was not that long ago in 2005 that the robber baron bank robbers ramrodded through congress the consumer bankruptcy reforms just to keep the citizens on the hook a lot longer and to make it harder to get rid of debt which was caused by banks poor lending practices and bad loans that the banks still write off anyhow. Any attempt to reform credit or lending, banking or corporate business practices regarding bankruptcy in that legislation package, like making companies file bankruptcy in their home states instead of shopping around for the best bankruptcy states to file in, was criticized by the bankruptcy reform lobby promoted and funded by the banking industry, and was removed from the legislation completely. And obviously the banks knew they were in deep trouble years ago, which was why they were so desperate to get this bankruptcy reform passed just the way they wanted it.
The banks wanted to make sure they got a free pass from congress so they could shove the debt pole further up the ass of the consumers, with no accountability on their part. The bankruptcy reform group spearheaded by the banking industry was dissolved after that crappy anticonsumer legislation was passed. And there were no banking or corporate bankruptcy reforms of any substance left in the legislation. The financial lobbies now begging for a taxpayer bailout made damn sure of that.
So is it any wonder that the citizens, you know, those financially burdened and over taxed downtrodden taxpayers, know all too well how nefarious and backstabbing the fascist banking industry really is in these financial matters? Even a stupid person financially can figure out the government is taxing them to death, and even after death, so why should their taxes now go to also fund bank robber barons elite lifestyles? That's what this is all about.
And the banks can still shop around their bankruptcies to the most advantageous state to file in, too. So HURRAY for them, and they need to get after it without asking the taxpayers to foot an ongoing trillion dollar bailout initiative to support bank robber baron business as usual in the financial sectors.
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