Question B550 chipset, so AMD joins the dark side after all.

[Shivansps]

I just read the article...

So let me get this straight, this chipset is coming out like a year later, they did not even bother to add CPU PCI-E 4.0 uplink support or to increase the number of sata ports that is ALREADY a problem on every 6 sata B450 motherboard (NVME x4 disables the 2 SOC Sata, thus 6 sata B450 mbs losses 2 sata if NVME is used), and they even dare to futher reduce backguard compatibility?

I was not expecting for the PCI-E lanes FROM the chipset to be 4.0, but only USB 3.2 G2, no more satas, CPU link still 3.0 and the PCI-E lanes 3.0 is beyond disappointing.

 

[CentroX]

In the Intel camp, yes. In the AMD camp they are promised that all AM4 boards support all generations. Until now....

AMD has backtracked, but they still havent kept their promise to 100%. I got a Asus Crosshair VI extreme x370 board. It is a beast and sucks to be kept out of support.

 

[AtenRa]

Even if AMD had no competitors, they would still suck in marketing, what a crap.

 

[randomhero]

No you not getting it. New BIOS will lock those board with only 4000 Series CPU's. People who buys 1000/2000/3000 CPU/APU now have to look hard to buy new B450 that supports their CPU/APU limiting their motherboard choice. Remember B550 dont support 1000/2000 series CPU/APU and 3000 Series APU.

You are wrong on this one.
Please, go watch that HWUB video. As I said, they explain this in great detail.

 

[AtenRa]

The board partners will be thrilled with this BIOS, they cannot sell a single B450 mobo claiming on the BOX that its ZEN 3 ready

 

[Zucker2k]

In the Intel camp, yes. In the AMD camp they are promised that all AM4 boards support all generations. Until now....

I'm talking about updating board firmware or bios to support next gen. Isn't that how it's always worked?

 

[Zucker2k]

The board partners will be thrilled with this BIOS, they cannot sell a single B450 mobo claiming on the BOX that its ZEN 3 ready

They'd rather sell B550 right about now.

 

[Geranium]

You are wrong on this one.
Please, go watch that HWUB video. As I said, they explain this in great detail.

See this video then : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1r0DG-KEPyqOeW6o79PByw/videos
It is from expert.
New update will give less freedom to customer, especially the second hand buyer.

 

[randomhero]

The board partners will be thrilled with this BIOS, they cannot sell a single B450 mobo claiming on the BOX that its ZEN 3 ready

I would have been thrilled if we consumers were sole reason for AMDs backtracking. Board manufacturers are major reason for this by all accounts.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The board partners will be thrilled with this BIOS, they cannot sell a single B450 mobo claiming on the BOX that its ZEN 3 ready

I suspect this is the true reason. A board partner probably put up a stink about the inevitable class action lawsuit and AMD relented. Sort of hard to say one vendors old boards will support it but not another vendors old boards. AMD doesn’t want to be in that position.
Overall this is good news even though I still feel there was way too much faux outrage over this.

 

[Hitman928]

as you can see in the last bit of comments there will be always people crying about something. good on amd.

I don't think anyone is upset about AMD doing this, I think it's admirable that they are trying to respond to the community. Several of us just know the mess that this is creating trying to appease a very vocal, but very small portion of their userbase. Hopefully they plan/market better for the future from now on.

 

[randomhero]

See this video then : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1r0DG-KEPyqOeW6o79PByw/videos
It is from expert.
New update will give less freedom to customer, especially the second hand buyer.

It is okish video. HWUB one is much better.
4xx chipsets will still be sold as are and supporting ryzen 1,2 and 3 series. So no difference to what is now.
Want to upgrade CPU? After purchase of CPU code is required to update BIOS for 4 series ryzen.
So what is problem?
Also, there are A520 boards that will support older CPUs.
5xx chipsets also support ryzen series 3 and 4.
No conundrum if you ask me.

 

[amrnuke]

as you can see in the last bit of comments there will be always people crying about something. good on amd.

"AMD won't officially support Zen3 on my B450!"

"AMD won't officially support Zen on my B450 after I flash it to support Zen3!"

"If I buy a second-hand B450 what if someone already flashed it for Zen3!"

"How will I know which B450 board to buy for my Zen3 if only some will get the beta BIOS?!"

There is always going to be someone whining about something.

 

[Elfear]

It is okish video. HWUB one is much better.
4xx chipsets will still be sold as are and supporting ryzen 1,2 and 3 series. So no difference to what is now.
Want to upgrade CPU? After purchase of CPU code is required to update BIOS for 4 series ryzen.
So what is problem?
Also, there are A520 boards that will support older CPUs.
5xx chipsets also support ryzen series 3 and 4.
No conundrum if you ask me.

What happens when that owner then sells his board secondhand? There are going to be buyers out there who will get a board that doesn't support their older Ryzen. Hopefully the sellers are smart enough to let the buyer know up front but guaranteed that will not happen 100% of the time.

 

[randomhero]

What happens when that owner then sells his board secondhand? There are going to be buyers out there who will get a board that doesn't support their older Ryzen. Hopefully the sellers are smart enough to let the buyer know up front but guaranteed that will not happen 100% of the time.

Due diligence and all that jazz I guess.

 

[Markfw]

I'm talking about updating board firmware or bios to support next gen. Isn't that how it's always worked?

Sometimes. I used my x370 on original bios with a 2700k, and I am sure there are other examples. It sounded like you were talking about sockets. But even firmware does not always have to be updated.

 

[amrnuke]

What happens when that owner then sells his board secondhand? There are going to be buyers out there who will get a board that doesn't support their older Ryzen. Hopefully the sellers are smart enough to let the buyer know up front but guaranteed that will not happen 100% of the time.

They should not support Zen3 on B450 then.

 

[Elfear]

Due diligence and all that jazz I guess.

Absolutely. What some of the folks in this thread are saying is that, while it's good that AMD backtracked and will provide support for newer Ryzens on 400-series boards, it's also going to open up a can of worms for them. They will win back support from the small crowd who were up in arms about lack of 400-series support only to lose the folks who will have to figure out the bios quagmire in the future. It has the chance to tarnish their image because CPU and motherboard support will not be so clear cut.

It's a risk and makes it more understandable why AMD chose not to support older chipsets in the first place. Don't get me wrong, it was on AMD to set the expectations back in 2017 with "support through 2020", but it does make the decision easier to grasp.

 

[Zucker2k]

Sometimes. I used my x370 on original bios with a 2700k, and I am sure there are other examples. It sounded like you were talking about sockets. But even firmware does not always have to be updated.

Your board must have had a Zen+ compatible bios already flashed before you bought it.

 

[PingSpike]

That doesn't sound like much of a solution, then. Not being able to flash back is not a good look. What techinical reasons would make such a thing impossible?

I remember hearing this was a problem with bios updates for some manufacturers at least. I agree...its a bad look. I'm not sure of the technical limitations that would cause it either so it doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[therealmongo]

Those who can see will know its going to be like this for AMD,

damned if they do and damned if they dont.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Having to update your bios to support a new CPU is not a new concept.

Amen! At the risk of introducing Intel issues into this thread, this isn't entirely unlike the transition between Sandy and Ivy Bridge, or more accurately, between Skylake and Kaby Lake. There were some boards, with limited BIOS space or otherwise IME limitations, that offered "one way" BIOS flashes from Skylake-compatible firmware, to Kaby Lake (only)-compatible firmware. Sure, there were some "teething issues", but it wasn't the end of the world.

Edit: I have a feeling, that there may be more in common between Zen2 and Zen3, than there is between Zen/Zen+ and Zen2, and many/most BIOSes (*for B450/X470) that added Zen3 support, and are "one way" flashes, will probably still allow for Zen2 support as well. No factual information behind this, other than both Zen2 and Zen3 are 7nm, just my gut feeling. And on some boards, may allow (with a Zen2 CPU installed) flashing back to the "mainline" (non-Zen3-'beta'-BIOS) BIOS code, to support Zen/Zen+/Zen2.

B450 may end up being the "all-purpose, superstar" chipset, for both Zen2 and Zen3. This could cost AMD a number of B550 sales, at least from those people that don't feel that they "need" PCI-E 4.0 (primarily used for NVMe SSDs, I haven't seen any large differences in GPU performance between PCI-E 4.0 and 3.0, except when VRAM is exceed, which you *always* take a hit then.)

I feel much better now, and more re-assured of my purchase choices of a pair of MSI B450M PRO-VDH MAX boards, for a pair of builds, that I hope that I can sell to some friends and friend's relatives. It will assume them that I can upgrade their rigs to Zen3 in the (hopefully, near) future.

 

[Markfw]

Your board must have had a Zen+ compatible bios already flashed before you bought it.

I bout it when the 1800x was just released, so that would have been impossible.

 

[CentroX]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1262778942303371265

No just dropping links. You must comment to the link.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[randomhero]

Absolutely. What some of the folks in this thread are saying is that, while it's good that AMD backtracked and will provide support for newer Ryzens on 400-series boards, it's also going to open up a can of worms for them. They will win back support from the small crowd who were up in arms about lack of 400-series support only to lose the folks who will have to figure out the bios quagmire in the future. It has the chance to tarnish their image because CPU and motherboard support will not be so clear cut.

It's a risk and makes it more understandable why AMD chose not to support older chipsets in the first place. Don't get me wrong, it was on AMD to set the expectations back in 2017 with "support through 2020", but it does make the decision easier to grasp.

As much as I would like that AMDs backtracking is due to us enthusiasts, it is not. Well, not in a measure we would like.
It is due to motherboard manufacturers and ODMs.
As to all other things regarding AMDs problems,well, they are AMDs problems.

But I do get what people are saying.

 

[HurleyBird]

I hope that AMD stipulates a minimum BIOS size of at least 32MB for AM5, and plans to support all future products on that platform from the very start.

Because the other likely scenario is that they go the other direction, and become more like Intel in terms of platform support. That would be terrible.