Aziz Ansari #himtoo

[UglyCasanova]

Only an idiot takes every claim at face value without investigating first.

Internet mob mentality, social media, and #metoo have all kind of culminated into this unfortunately. Prosecute first, ask questions later.

FWIW I believe the women, I don’t question "why it took this long", I get the pressure they are under and sometimes can’t say no, etc.

 

[Jaskalas]

Only an idiot takes every claim at face value without investigating first.

Investigating... with what evidence? These cases are almost always he said / she said. There is no evidence for a legal system to act upon. Lynching people with a mob is the usual recourse here.

 

[Paladin3]

Internet mob mentality, social media, and #metoo have all kind of culminated into this unfortunately. Prosecute first, ask questions later.

FWIW I believe the women, I don’t question "why it took this long", I get the pressure they are under and sometimes can’t say no, etc.

I do sympathize with victims of sexual assault, domestic abuse and sexism. Women are so sexualized in our society that some men no longer see and respect them as human beings and that is despicable.

If someone is going to claim sexual assault or rape, I would hope they at least had the courage to say no during the encounter. In many instances a woman is under pressure and sometimes can't say no, but this doesn't sound like one of them from the victims account. What are "verbal and non-verbal cues" exactly? Did she tell him no or not?

If I had to bet I would bet she is telling the truth. Too many powerful men abuse women, but these questions have to be asked.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I don't doubt them. Nor do I think it is a witch hunt.

But now we know you have that concern. Thanks for confirming.

Do the thought police receive a good pension?

So specific to this story, what should be the outcome? What crime did Ansari alleged commit, and since we've already jumped to a verdict, what should be his punishment?

 

[jackstar7]

Do the thought police receive a good pension?

So specific to this story, what should be the outcome? What crime did Ansari alleged commit, and since we've already jumped to a verdict, what should be his punishment?

Good example here.

 

[jackstar7]

Internet mob mentality, social media, and #metoo have all kind of culminated into this unfortunately. Prosecute first, ask questions later.

FWIW I believe the women, I don’t question "why it took this long", I get the pressure they are under and sometimes can’t say no, etc.

Sorry, how do you square this with the witch hunt concern?

 

[jpeyton]

Sounds like he was pushy and she had a hard time saying no, but she expected him to read her “non-verbal” cues and had a terrible night when he didn’t.

I think that’s probably why it’s only been picked up by babe.net

 

[Starbuck1975]

Good example here.

So you don't have an answer, thank you for confirming.

 

[jackstar7]

So you don't have an answer, thank you for confirming.

To the thought police having pensions? No, I don't have the foggiest.
To the penalties that should be faced? I have no idea if there was a crime, so who can say if the law is even a factor, but in the case of being a non-dickhead it sounds like he failed (and here so did you), and so I expect his penalties will be meted out by society as is warranted. If his career ends, then that's how that goes.

If I thought you wanted to engage earnestly, I'd be more likely to respond in the first place, but you frame things in the least reasonable light, and there you go.

 

[WHAMPOM]

"Me Too" is going to be a boat many women are going to jump on just to get the attention. It is a common motive found in many situations that become a popular media frenzy. Don't get too wound up over it.

 

[Starbuck1975]

To the thought police having pensions? No, I don't have the foggiest.
To the penalties that should be faced? I have no idea if there was a crime, so who can say if the law is even a factor, but in the case of being a non-dickhead it sounds like he failed (and here so did you), and so I expect his penalties will be meted out by society as is warranted. If his career ends, then that's how that goes.

If I thought you wanted to engage earnestly, I'd be more likely to respond in the first place, but you frame things in the least reasonable light, and there you go.

I do want to engage earnestly, but there is very much a witch hunt and thought crime element to this whole movement.

We don't know if there was a crime committed and we shouldn't even entertain the notion of punishment based on allegations.

So you are ok with someone's career ending because a date went sideways. That is just absurd.

 

[Sunburn74]

Written contract for what? People always have the right to say no.

We're dealing with a case where she wants to say no but refuses to act on it.

It's become so gray as to what is acceptable and what is not. You pretty much need like a contract signed that defines all the terms before taking someone out because the individual variability on what is acceptable is way too broad for today's climate (what's acceptable to one person may be completely unacceptable to another).

Personally this looks to me like a date going wrong based on miscommunication and differing expectations. No more, no less.

 

[jackstar7]

I do want to engage earnestly, but there is very much a witch hunt and thought crime element to this whole movement.

We don't know if there was a crime committed and we shouldn't even entertain the notion of punishment based on allegations.

So you are ok with someone's career ending because a date went sideways. That is just absurd.

Explain the absurdity? Heck, explain the witch hunt aspect?

You mean because men have dominated all social norms for millennia and now we're finally taking a minute to question and potentially adjust that we need to slow down this movement? Fuck that. The movement is taking us forward and it is long overdue. Will there be some collateral damage? Possibly, but too fucking bad. Small price to pay for real and lasting social advancement. No longer will "no" be mistaken for "yes". Now you need a real "yes" to engage in sex. One could only dream that we might also destigmatize sexual interactions finally so there isn't a default position of shame, fear, and other psychological poisons tied to the thing that's supposed to be fun.

So yeah, Aziz has enjoyed tremendous fortune and fame and it might all end because he made poor social choices. Why does that scare you?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Explain the absurdity? Heck, explain the witch hunt aspect?

You mean because men have dominated all social norms for millennia and now we're finally taking a minute to question and potentially adjust that we need to slow down this movement? Fuck that. The movement is taking us forward and it is long overdue. Will there be some collateral damage? Possibly, but too fucking bad. Small price to pay for real and lasting social advancement. No longer will "no" be mistaken for "yes". Now you need a real "yes" to engage in sex. One could only dream that we might also destigmatize sexual interactions finally so there isn't a default position of shame, fear, and other psychological poisons tied to the thing that's supposed to be fun.

So yeah, Aziz has enjoyed tremendous fortune and fame and it might all end because he made poor social choices. Why does that scare you?

Doesn't scare me. I am not in a position of power, treat women with respect and well past my prime.

Having said that, how is trying to hook up with a girl and misreading cues while on a date a poor social choice?

Unfortunately for you, collateral damage is not the foundation of justice. This is not social advancement. This is a step backward.

This movement is becoming a temper tantrum.

 

[jackstar7]

Doesn't scare me. I am not in a position of power, treat women with respect and well past my prime.

Having said that, how is trying to hook up with a girl and misreading cues while on a date a poor social choice?

Unfortunately for you, collateral damage is not the foundation of justice. This is not social advancement. This is a step backward.

This movement is becoming a temper tantrum.

Says you. The ladies seem pretty keen on it, and they're not wrong.

But feel free to explain how this is backward. I notice you didn't have any thoughts on the inherent value of a sex-positive culture. Should I be surprised?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Says you. The ladies seem pretty keen on it, and they're not wrong.

But feel free to explain how this is backward. I notice you didn't have any thoughts on the inherent value of a sex-positive culture. Should I be surprised?

Most of the ladies I know think the movement is foolish and misdirected. Hollywood actresses don't speak for most women.

Collateral damage and a sex positive culture are diametrical positions. Free love and sexual liberation are sex positive. Twitter tribunals is McCarthyism.

 

[jackstar7]

Most of the ladies I know think the movement is foolish and misdirected. Hollywood actresses don't speak for most women.

Collateral damage and a sex positive culture are diametrical positions. Free love and sexual liberation are sex positive. Twitter tribunals is McCarthyism.

And the women you know don't speak for the rest out there. See how that shit works?

Calling this movement McCarthyism is hack. Do you know how many accusations of sexual assault are false? Do you know how many are unreported? The culture you're trying to preserve is toxic and hopefully it's done.

 

[Jaskalas]

To you the end justifies the means, but witch trials were supposed to end with Salem.
If I say you touched me, do you throw yourself on your almighty pyre of self righteousness? Evidence? Why start now?

 

[Bitek]

Whatever happened to a slap to the face and walking out?

WTF with this "non verbal" cues while he's going down on her, in his apartment which she went up to to make out, after a date. I see some "non verbal" cues going right the other way.

Not suave, not smooth and way too eager in your make out session does not equate to assault.

This is the way #metoo loses support.

You can't be passive aggressive then go onto into public media to destroy someone's livelihood when you have some reasonable responsibility for your conflicting actions and signals.

 

[Starbuck1975]

And the women you know don't speak for the rest out there. See how that shit works?

Calling this movement McCarthyism is hack. Do you know how many accusations of sexual assault are false? Do you know how many are unreported? The culture you're trying to preserve is toxic and hopefully it's done.

Hollywood is toxic, on that we can agree

 

[jackstar7]

Hollywood is toxic, on that we can agree

The culture you're trying to preserve is Hollywood?

Weird thing to assert.

Also, nice to see you dismiss the rest of the post. How many unreported sexual assaults vs false accusations?

 

[jackstar7]

To you the end justifies the means, but witch trials were supposed to end with Salem.
If I say you touched me, do you throw yourself on your almighty pyre of self righteousness? Evidence? Why start now?

This is the same false argument. Can you also answer how many unreported sexual assaults there are vs false accusations?

 

[jackstar7]

Whatever happened to a slap to the face and walking out?

WTF with this "non verbal" cues while he's going down on her, in his apartment which she went up to to make out, after a date. I see some "non verbal" cues going right the other way.

Not suave, not smooth and way too eager in your make out session does not equate to assault.

This is the way #metoo loses support.

You can't be passive aggressive then go onto into public media to destroy someone's livelihood when you have some reasonable responsibility for your conflicting actions and signals.

Or we can change culture to requiring (and giving) enthusiastic "yes" to sexual activity. How is that a problem? Why is subtlety better? It is borne from a Puritanism, which I don't recall being of much value these days.

 

[bshole]

Written contract for what? People always have the right to say no.

We're dealing with a case where she wants to say no but refuses to act on it.

It seems to me that she wanted to be "wife" material, not "one night stand" material. The calculus in her head at the moment was probably he will never want to see me again if I don't consent, etc...
afterwards it was like he just used me.....

I could be all wrong but that is my impression.

 

[jpeyton]

Or we can change culture to requiring (and giving) enthusiastic "yes" to sexual activity. How is that a problem? Why is subtlety better? It is borne from a Puritanism, which I don't recall being of much value these days.

Better yet, take a page out of Black Mirror and somebody should create an app where two people can record their sexual consent with a tap.