Aziz Ansari #himtoo

[thecoolnessrune]

Why would the first thing you do be to put words in my mouth?

I never said this should never have been part of the movement. It belongs in the movement because of its flaws and the adjustments that people are making. The movement doesn't need a purity test for incidents.

If it belong in the movement, then it will exist for its flaws, including the disruption it brings. I do feel that the disruption it brings to the movement can be learned from as well. Saying that it should be a part of the movement, but at the same time should bring no disruption to the movement is a "little bit of column A and a little bit of column B", and that's just not how it works.

 

[jackstar7]

If it belong in the movement, then it will exist for its flaws, including the disruption it brings. I do feel that the disruption it brings to the movement can be learned from as well. Saying that it should be a part of the movement, but at the same time should bring no disruption to the movement is a "little bit of column A and a little bit of column B", and that's just not how it works.

Sorry, I mean it shouldn't derail it. I'm fine with disruption and the consequential growth from it.

It's a shame that my position wasn't clear based on the context of my other posts about this. Seems like you're just wasting your time with me at this point, since there's nothing about which to disagree.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Sorry, I mean it shouldn't derail it. I'm fine with disruption and the consequential growth from it.

It's a shame that my position wasn't clear based on the context of my other posts about this. Seems like you're just wasting your time with me at this point, since there's nothing about which to disagree.

Sometimes one misses the forest for the trees. I don't think it's a waste of time, as I found something with which to agree on. The movement shouldn't stop. This should not derail the movement. I think it provides a valuable opportunity for not only a deeper discussion of regarding affirmative consent (which is no doubt going to bring a whole bunch of other faults to light), and also a viable discussion for what the movement is about, including the company it keeps. Every group has its fringe. Trim the loose strings before they unravel what's built.

 

[jackstar7]

Something I saw on the twitters that I found especially relevant to the discussion (yes, a thread):
https://twitter.com/elmyra/status/953942830094970880

Some of the educated responses are worthwhile, too.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Unfortunately for you, and specific to the Ansari story, the court of public opinion is becoming increasingly sympathetic to him, especially after the babe.net editor sent an unhinged email to Banfield, which she tore apart. The damage is already done for Ansari, but the negative press is putting appropriate boundaries on these kinds of ridiculous allegations.

This story is a foolish hill to die on, but you keep on charging it.

You are doing a great job of ignoring the forest in favour of concentrating on one scrubby bush. Keep up the good work.

 

[blankslate]

Something I saw on the twitters that I found especially relevant to the discussion (yes, a thread):
https://twitter.com/elmyra/status/953942830094970880

I think that most people will find that the more reasoned responses in that thread were posted by

• beccisumisu
• Andy Waters
• Noni May
• The Non-Sex Robot Haver

But we're probably not in agreement on that...

On another note some people I guess have taken it upon themselves to complain about "Grace's" twitter account... I was curious to see the replies and found it was suspended (probably only temporarily).
I really wish they wouldn't it only gives reason for sympathy... I'd rather they leave her twitter available so others could see what a "charmer" see really is....


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[BigDH01]

Something I saw on the twitters that I found especially relevant to the discussion (yes, a thread):
https://twitter.com/elmyra/status/953942830094970880

Some of the educated responses are worthwhile, too.

PhD in consent? Fucking retarded. As someone who used to look upon the ivory tower with great admiration, I'm excited for its coming annihilation under its own weight. If the girl didn't want to engage in activity, she was free to leave. Modern feminists apparently believe women have no agency or are just too fucking polite to say no but not so polite they don't shit on a person afterwards in public. But if women have no agency, why should anyone? If my boss asks me to help him move, am I now a slave for feeling compelled to do so? Can anyone ever consent? Maybe we should just let the government dictate all human interaction. I'd laugh at that idea, but I'm sure there are people, here even, that wouldn't mind it.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You are doing a great job of ignoring the forest in favour of concentrating on one scrubby bush. Keep up the good work.

Fix bayonets, lol

 

[woolfe9998]

Unfortunately for you, and specific to the Ansari story, the court of public opinion is becoming increasingly sympathetic to him, especially after the babe.net editor sent an unhinged email to Banfield, which she tore apart. The damage is already done for Ansari, but the negative press is putting appropriate boundaries on these kinds of ridiculous allegations.

This story is a foolish hill to die on, but you keep on charging it.

Question for you conservatives: why isn't the "liberal media" flaying Ansari alive here?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Fix bayonets, lol

Keep that 'concern' flowing.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Question for you conservatives: why isn't the "liberal media" flaying Ansari alive here?

There is no liberal media. Some certainly tried to flaye him, but enough rational voices spoke out to oppose the momentum from building. Ansari's career is probably toast, but that is what you get for serving the wrong wine to a date.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Keep that 'concern' flowing.

Keep charging that hill, although you may want to look over your shoulder because no one is following you.

Fortunately enough people shared my concern to at least oppose the nonsense specific to this story.

 

[Victorian Gray]

There is no liberal media. Some certainly tried to flaye him, but enough rational voices spoke out to oppose the momentum from building. Ansari's career is probably toast, but that is what you get for serving the wrong wine to a date.

You hope.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Keep charging that hill, although you may want to look over your shoulder because no one is following you.

Fortunately enough people shared my concern to at least oppose the nonsense specific to this story.

Oh dude, you have soooo much concern I don't know how you manage to live with it.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Oh dude, you have soooo much concern I don't know how you manage to live with it.

I follow your example. You give me the strength and courage to face the derp

 

[Victorian Gray]

I follow your example. You give me the strength and courage to face the derp

Really? Cause this seems more like it

or maybe this

 

[Starbuck1975]

Really? Cause this seems more like it

or maybe this

Maybe you should stop reading cartoons and start reading editorials, where there is a vibrant discussion led by people who share my "concern", many of them being feminists.

 

[VRAMdemon]

I dunno,,this may be more of a case of different expectations and bad communication than sexual assault. The story she told sounds like two people that need to mature and improve their communication skills around sex. Moving her hand towards his genitals is over the line. Doing it more than once puts him solidly in 'Creep' territory and will surely severely impact his future dating options. But there also comes a point when she needs to say to herself " Ok lady, why in the hell are you still here. Continuing to be there after repeated attempts at creepery crosses into mixed-messages territory and removes the 'completely blameless' from her side of the equation. At that point, he's thinking "Well she's not leaving"

It sounds like he ran his game so fast that she was taken totally by surprise. Then she was trying to figure out whether she wanted to try and salvage the date, while he assumed he had permission to play cat-and-mouse for another half hour with someone who kept turning away from him.

He seemed to be confused about consent, because she didn't GTFO right up front. It seems she was shellshocked. Ansari puts on a very public persona of being a nice and respectful guy, so of course she would be shocked. If there's any confusion, Ansari is responsible for creating it by putting on the pressure so fast and so hard to skate past the consent and preliminaries. That's all on him.

I couldn't convict him in court but I hope he takes this as notice that he needs to cut the bullshit with the shock-and-awe approach. He sounds like a douchebag when it comes to respecting the ladies and dating.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Maybe you should stop reading cartoons and start reading editorials, where there is a vibrant discussion led by people who share my "concern", many of them being feminists.

I don't actually give a shit about editorials I give a shit about the real world and in the real world you happen to be acting pretty much like the guys in those cartoons.

 

[justoh]

Seems some of you came out with the wrong take-away. It's actually to think more critically about what you read and to be more suspicious of the media and of popular "movements."

 

[Starbuck1975]

I don't actually give a shit about editorials I give a shit about the real world and in the real world you happen to be acting pretty much like the guys in those cartoons.

Editorials, not your silly little cartoons that fit a confirmation bias narrative, is where you will find the real world. You are welcome to join it.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Editorials, not your silly little cartoons that fit a confirmation bias narrative, is where you will find the real world. You are welcome to join it.

No, the real world is where the real world is. And that's where I live. And in that world the fact that a guy was embarrassed over a bad date means shit in comparison to the daily abuse that women and kids deal with in numbers that should make us all ashamed. A world where shits like Larry Nassar are allowed to get away with abusing girls and young women for decades. Where's your fucking 'concern' for real victims? Don't bother, rhetorical question. You've already more than provided an answer.

It sucks for Ansari that he apparently has the sexual sophistication of a 16 year old who just binged on his first porn and that he thought he was going to have sex with a not very together woman who seemed to believe that his public persona meant that he just must be a great guy to have a date and maybe a relationship with. Neither party comes off well but the bottom line is that the incident is essentially meaningless.

But it's certainly serving a purpose in smacking those uppity wimmins back into their rightful place. And the editorial pundits are having a field day playing with this shit. Click bait, just like the original article.

*This* is an actual important story.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-gymnastics-placshke-20180123-story.html

The 'concern' over the Ansari incident is nothing but the usual reactionary culture wars bullshit.

Have a nice day.

 

[Starbuck1975]

No, the real world is where the real world is. And that's where I live. And in that world the fact that a guy was embarrassed over a bad date means shit in comparison to the daily abuse that women and kids deal with in numbers that should make us all ashamed. A world where shits like Larry Nassar are allowed to get away with abusing girls and young women for decades. Where's your fucking 'concern' for real victims? Don't bother, rhetorical question. You've already more than provided an answer.

It sucks for Ansari that he apparently has the sexual sophistication of a 16 year old who just binged on his first porn and that he thought he was going to have sex with a not very together woman who seemed to believe that his public persona meant that he just must be a great guy to have a date and maybe a relationship with. Neither party comes off well but the bottom line is that the incident is essentially meaningless.

But it's certainly serving a purpose in smacking those uppity wimmins back into their rightful place. And the editorial pundits are having a field day playing with this shit. Click bait, just like the original article.

*This* is an actual important story.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-gymnastics-placshke-20180123-story.html

The 'concern' over the Ansari incident is nothing but the usual reactionary culture wars bullshit.

Have a nice day.

Nice job moving the goal posts to the Nasser story, but since you did, a reasonable person would never defend Nasser or Weinstein or Moore, yet also see cause for pause with Ansari and Franken.

You are lumping deviants and sexual predators with people who made bad or awkward decisions. I simply cannot accept that, nor do I accept social media tribunals.

I know editorials scare people like you. I don't know how things work in Canada, but in America we believe in free speech and due process. I see nothing wrong with supporting the broader movement but also keeping it in check when its over zealous members cross a line. That is what is happening. Is dialogue really that terrifying to you?

Stick to your cartoons if that makes you more comfortable.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Nice job moving the goal posts to the Nasser story, but since you did, a reasonable person would never defend Nasser or Weinstein or Moore, yet also see cause for pause with Ansari and Franken.

You are lumping deviants and sexual predators with people who made bad or awkward decisions. I simply cannot accept that, nor do I accept social media tribunals.

I know editorials scare people like you. I don't know how things work in Canada, but in America we believe in free speech and due process. I see nothing wrong with supporting the broader movement but also keeping it in check when its over zealous members cross a line. That is what is happening. Is dialogue really that terrifying to you?

Stick to your cartoons if that makes you more comfortable.

Weep for for the man. He's suffered so. As for Franken, 8 women came forward with credible stories. He seems to be rather a creep and he's resigning. Cry me a river.

I've seen this shit too many times. Go fight your culture war with someone else bunky. And keep an eye open for women carrying boiling pitch and feathers.

 

[blankslate]

Editorials, not your silly little cartoons that fit a confirmation bias narrative, is where you will find the real world. You are welcome to join it.

When a person wants to use cartoons to convince others why they're world view is better than others they live in bizzaro world...
one would find their energies better spend elsewhere.


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