Avoid AMD AHCI driver at all costs

[Vette73]

or run amd drives in legacy mode (called ide stupidly enough by mobos... Even though its not ide, its just legacy ata)

keep in mind that amd is a budget oriented company, for people who can't afford the quality of intel. Having things not work right is expected.

FUD



AMD has a new AHCI and Southbridge driver (Version 10.6) that came out June 16 (couple days ago)

http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_ca...ista32-chipset

 

[perdomot]

THAT is not true! The stuttering in Windows Media Center with the MS AHCI driver is evidence enough that there is some issue!!
I would have loved to know this 1 year ago when I upgraded my media center/server/desktop - I would have NOT bought an AMD.

DON'T BUY AMD UNTIL THEY FIX THIS!

I don't use WMC so I can't comment on that but I use VLC player to play all videos and Foobar2000 as my main music player and everything works perfectly. These are both free apps so you might want to try them out.

 

[perdomot]

I just tried the WMC on my PC and got not stuttering whatsoever. Playback of various songs was fast and smooth.

 

[perdomot]

FUD



AMD has a new AHCI and Southbridge driver (Version 10.6) that came out June 16 (couple days ago)

http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_ca...ista32-chipset

Have you tried it yet and did you find any difference in performance?

 

[coolVariable]

Keep in mind that AMD is a budget oriented company, for people who can't afford the quality of intel. Having things not work right is expected.

Ugh?
Last I checked there is not much of a price difference unless you are shopping for intel's newest and most expensive CPUs.
And that is not even a justification: our product doesn't work but it is $5 cheaper than the competition!!!

 

[coolVariable]

I just tried the WMC on my PC and got not stuttering whatsoever. Playback of various songs was fast and smooth.

Try watching HDTV (or doing something really HDD intensive): stutter!
You can also check out the greenbutton and AVforums with their millions of threads on stuttering due to MS's AHCI drivers.


I also want to add my voice to AT writing about AHCI drivers!

 

[taltamir]

FUD



AMD has a new AHCI and Southbridge driver (Version 10.6) that came out June 16 (couple days ago)

http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_ca...ista32-chipset

Oh really?
AMD has inferior AHCI implementation, AMD had the debacle with the first gen phenoms (where you had to disable the L3 cache in bios because the chip was bugged), AMD simply does not produce as reliable or as good hardware as intel. They lag behind across the board. AMD tried to handle multi-threading in a manner that required special drivers early on (a failure), they tried to handle power savings in a way that crippled performance as tested and shown by anandtech and then claimed that it is due to their implementation heavily depending on the mobo doing all things right, but that they will move to an intel like policy of not trusting the mobo makers and making it internal to the CPU.

They HAD maintained the lead in the past, during the early days of 64bit. Back then I said "Only an idiot or a person wholly ignorant of the existence of AMD would buy an intel system", and it was true at the time. But AMD is simply a less reliable company that provides lesser chips today.

That doesn't mean that they don't have their place, I am running chips from both companies, aside from my person gaming computer most are AMD... budget oriented is very important since almost everything has to deal with a tight budget.

Also, I take offense at you describing my words as FUD:

Fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) is a tactic of rhetoric and fallacy used in sales, marketing, public relations,[1][2] politics and propaganda. FUD is generally a strategic attempt to influence public perception by disseminating negative and dubious/false information designed to undermine the credibility of their beliefs. An individual firm, for example, might use FUD to invite unfavorable opinions and speculation about a competitor's product;

I am not a paid shill for intel and this is not anti AMD propaganda. If needed I can furnish links to anandtech articles showing:
1. Significantly lower performance with CnQ, no such degredation with intel C1E
2. Significantly lower performance via SATA
3. The whole phenom fiasco.

The AHCI not working thing (which is what this thread is about)? this is new to me, and I don't have an anandtech article showing it. but this is what this thread is here to discuss and is not related to what I said about intel and AMD's position in the market.

 

[Hacp]

Yes - there used to be a thread on the AMD/ATI forums though nothing ever came out of it.
The MS AHCI drivers CAN (don't have to) result in stuttering performance though (e.g. Win7MC Live TV will stutter)

THANK YOU! I was using MS's crappy AHCI driver and I was wondering why the FUCK my Intel G1 was stuttering like crazy. Installed the AMD driver and boom no stutter! Thank god AMD is more competent than MS.

 

[KrispyKreme50]

I was thinking about finally making the jump to a SSD for my 780G desktop but should I hold off until AMD fixes their AHCI problems or is there a workaround in the meantime?

 

[Hacp]

I was thinking about finally making the jump to a SSD for my 780G desktop but should I hold off until AMD fixes their AHCI problems or is there a workaround in the meantime?

They make it out like its a deal breaker. Its not. Go get that SSD. I don't think AMD drivers support trim but who needs that anyways?

 

[Vette73]

Oh really?
AMD has inferior AHCI implementation, AMD had the debacle with the first gen phenoms (where you had to disable the L3 cache in bios because the chip was bugged), AMD simply does not produce as reliable or as good hardware as intel. They lag behind across the board. AMD tried to handle multi-threading in a manner that required special drivers early on (a failure), they tried to handle power savings in a way that crippled performance as tested and shown by anandtech and then claimed that it is due to their implementation heavily depending on the mobo doing all things right, but that they will move to an intel like policy of not trusting the mobo makers and making it internal to the CPU.

They HAD maintained the lead in the past, during the early days of 64bit. Back then I said "Only an idiot or a person wholly ignorant of the existence of AMD would buy an intel system", and it was true at the time. But AMD is simply a less reliable company that provides lesser chips today.

That doesn't mean that they don't have their place, I am running chips from both companies, aside from my person gaming computer most are AMD... budget oriented is very important since almost everything has to deal with a tight budget.

Also, I take offense at you describing my words as FUD:

I am not a paid shill for intel and this is not anti AMD propaganda. If needed I can furnish links to anandtech articles showing:
1. Significantly lower performance with CnQ, no such degredation with intel C1E
2. Significantly lower performance via SATA
3. The whole phenom fiasco.

The AHCI not working thing (which is what this thread is about)? this is new to me, and I don't have an anandtech article showing it. but this is what this thread is here to discuss and is not related to what I said about intel and AMD's position in the market.

And intel has had bad video drivers, chipset issues, cpu recalls, etc...

Again your comments are pure FUD and you sound like a lame Fanboy.

 

[lopri]

I really have no idea about all these horror stories about SB750/SB850 performance. I have been using 6 HDDs hooked to SB750 in AHCI mode for over a year with native Win7 drivers. Yes, it's not as sophisticated as ICH10R and benchmarks do reveal that it's slower than ICH10R, but those benchmarks here and there are highly unrealistic scenarios for desktop usage. And likewise I haven't noticed the difference between my systems when it comes to disk performance.

To be honest I suspect people are mistaking something else for disk controller's performance. I mean, I don't even know how the symptom might manifests.. Can stuttering during live TV playback be caused by a disk controller?

 

[Auric]

Damn, I can't find mine and there is no icon in the notification area for that. What could be wrong?

Perhaps it is hidden according to notification area options. In any case, connect a USB drive and see if it is then available.

 

[perdomot]

Try watching HDTV (or doing something really HDD intensive): stutter!
You can also check out the greenbutton and AVforums with their millions of threads on stuttering due to MS's AHCI drivers.


I also want to add my voice to AT writing about AHCI drivers!

I'll check that out when I get home because even with the AMD drivers, my HD playback has been fine. The big difference for me was in regular hdd write speeds where I was losing over 30MB/s. My ssd reads were still over 150MB/s but went over 200 when I used the MS ahci drivers.

 

[perdomot]

Oh really?
AMD has inferior AHCI implementation, AMD had the debacle with the first gen phenoms (where you had to disable the L3 cache in bios because the chip was bugged), AMD simply does not produce as reliable or as good hardware as intel. They lag behind across the board. AMD tried to handle multi-threading in a manner that required special drivers early on (a failure), they tried to handle power savings in a way that crippled performance as tested and shown by anandtech and then claimed that it is due to their implementation heavily depending on the mobo doing all things right, but that they will move to an intel like policy of not trusting the mobo makers and making it internal to the CPU.

They HAD maintained the lead in the past, during the early days of 64bit. Back then I said "Only an idiot or a person wholly ignorant of the existence of AMD would buy an intel system", and it was true at the time. But AMD is simply a less reliable company that provides lesser chips today.

That doesn't mean that they don't have their place, I am running chips from both companies, aside from my person gaming computer most are AMD... budget oriented is very important since almost everything has to deal with a tight budget.

Also, I take offense at you describing my words as FUD:

I am not a paid shill for intel and this is not anti AMD propaganda. If needed I can furnish links to anandtech articles showing:
1. Significantly lower performance with CnQ, no such degredation with intel C1E
2. Significantly lower performance via SATA
3. The whole phenom fiasco.

The AHCI not working thing (which is what this thread is about)? this is new to me, and I don't have an anandtech article showing it. but this is what this thread is here to discuss and is not related to what I said about intel and AMD's position in the market.

I agree that the phenom bug was a fiasco and the continuing ahci issues are disappointing but I disagree that they are lesser chips. The new 6 core cpus are keeping pace with all but the top intel cpus and at a much lower price. Remember the intel Prescott cpus which were little blast furnaces? Intel has been forced to behave better because of AMD products because without the competition, they get lazy and greedy. Look at how they are delaying the USB 3.0 specification. AMD may not be the fastest at the moment but given what I hear about their cpu/gpu work, it may not be long before they retake the performance crown.

 

[lopri]

I mean, think about it. The most intense 1080p scene from a Blu-Ray disc doesn't pass more than 50 Mbps of data. Live stream? Internet? ~10 Mbps 720p max. Heck people use USB 2.0 Blu-Ray ROM with no issue and USB 2.0 practically maxes around ~30 MB/s.

150 MB/s v. 200 MB/s.. While I understand the frustration, but can't help but analogize it to 150 FPS v. 200 FPS. Unless you move large data back and forth from your SSD (which you should avoid doing anyway), you will not notice it in everyday usage.

 

[perdomot]

I was thinking about finally making the jump to a SSD for my 780G desktop but should I hold off until AMD fixes their AHCI problems or is there a workaround in the meantime?

If you are using Win 7 and an ssd from OCZ like their vertex or agility, you will be very satisfied with the MS ahci driver included with the OS.

 

[lopri]

BTW, with regard to "Safely Remove Hardware" not appearing: Try installing Windows with only the SSD connected to the controller. Disconnect other disks, and if the board has any other controller (JMicron, Marvell, etc.) disable it. With the SSD and SB750 only, in AHCI mode, install Windows. After finishing installation, connect the other disks. And see if hotplug shows up.

 

[perdomot]

They make it out like its a deal breaker. Its not. Go get that SSD. I don't think AMD drivers support trim but who needs that anyways?

I agree. They make a bigger difference on mechanical hdds than ssds.

 

[taltamir]

And intel has had bad video drivers, chipset issues, cpu recalls, etc...

Again your comments are pure FUD and you sound like a lame Fanboy.

Or maybe you can't stomach your favorite company being on the ropes.
When AMD had the upper hand I said so, now intel does and I say so.
Its funny, I am always a "fanboy" of the company that has the currently superior product.
AMD suffered years of mismanagement, they have cemented their status as a follower (even though they, in the past, had great innovations such as the IMC and the x86_64 architecture), they produce much weaker chips, they do not have the same standards of QC, and they are unable to catch up.
I long for the days of the innovative and powerful AMD of the x64 days. And now that hector ruin finally left the company it seems like AMD will recover. But they are not quite there yet.

I agree that the phenom bug was a fiasco and the continuing ahci issues are disappointing but I disagree that they are lesser chips. The new 6 core cpus are keeping pace with all but the top intel cpus and at a much lower price.

Hence the budget oriented. And the nehalem chips do much better...

Remember the intel Prescott cpus which were little blast furnaces?

I specifically referred to the fact the back in the day there was no reason to buy intel.

Intel has been forced to behave better because of AMD products because without the competition, they get lazy and greedy. Look at how they are delaying the USB 3.0 specification. AMD may not be the fastest at the moment but given what I hear about their cpu/gpu work, it may not be long before they retake the performance crown.

I specifically referred to the fact that intel is being greedy and in the past 2 years or so has been pushing obsolete tech at obscene prices because they can get away with it. intel chipsets leave lots to be desired feature wise, and they are cutting out competitors (nvidia) instead of producing a better product on that front.

 

[perdomot]

I really have no idea about all these horror stories about SB750/SB850 performance. I have been using 6 HDDs hooked to SB750 in AHCI mode for over a year with native Win7 drivers. Yes, it's not as sophisticated as ICH10R and benchmarks do reveal that it's slower than ICH10R, but those benchmarks here and there are highly unrealistic scenarios for desktop usage. And likewise I haven't noticed the difference between my systems when it comes to disk performance.

To be honest I suspect people are mistaking something else for disk controller's performance. I mean, I don't even know how the symptom might manifests.. Can stuttering during live TV playback be caused by a disk controller?

The native Win 7 drivers are good for performance but detecting new hdds that are hotswapped into the system doesn't seem to work with them. I use the Hotswap utility with my esata hdd so I'm happy with my rig.

 

[Auric]

intel chipsets leave lots to be desired feature wise, and they are cutting out competitors (nvidia) instead of producing a better product on that front.

Nvidia losing the privilege of a chipset bidness was a win for the consumer, even if means paying $1 more for a system. It was especially bad when their shoddy chipsets were the default tainting otherwise good AMD platforms. Now AMD must catch up with Intel, even with the start gained from ATI.

 

[taltamir]

Nvidia losing the privilege of a chipset bidness was a win for the consumer, even if means paying $1 more for a system. It was especially bad when their shoddy chipsets were the default tainting otherwise good AMD platforms. Now AMD must catch up with Intel, even with the start gained from ATI.

a monopoly is never good for consumers. And nvidia's chipsets were excellent, head and shoulders above their competition.

 

[coolVariable]

I mean, think about it. The most intense 1080p scene from a Blu-Ray disc doesn't pass more than 50 Mbps of data. Live stream? Internet? ~10 Mbps 720p max. Heck people use USB 2.0 Blu-Ray ROM with no issue and USB 2.0 practically maxes around ~30 MB/s.

150 MB/s v. 200 MB/s.. While I understand the frustration, but can't help but analogize it to 150 FPS v. 200 FPS. Unless you move large data back and forth from your SSD (which you should avoid doing anyway), you will not notice it in everyday usage.

Something is broken in the MS AHCI drivers that makes HDDs "choke" under Media Center. The AMD drivers don't choke but they can be such a drag that they cause the same issue. I would assume (and hope) that the chipsets are fine but that the drivers are just badly written. But it (sadly) is a fact that they choke: Do a quick google search for media center and stutter and you will find literally millions of postings about this.

 

[perdomot]

It also appears that the type of file makes a difference. I got the choking effecting on an HD MKV file but an HD MP4 file played perfectly.