Average Performance Delta between Phenom II, Core 2, Core i7, and Sandy?

[Abwx]

Arkaign , i do not agree with all your sayings, but you have made many good points.
I ll stay laconic since i don t want to fuel the debate by systematicaly answering all the posts in an extensive manner.

 

[aigomorla]

i think the main point in this arguement is.

You can get away with cheap for something you "need".
If you "want" something tho, you will have to pay for it.

That being said, if u need a pc, thats cheap, fast, and probably wont notice any speed difference at all, the AMD platform wins hands down.

If your a heavy encoder, a hard core gamer, or straight up greedy, then you'll probably snag an intel platform.

 

[Vesku]

I'm with aigomorla on this. AMD can get far on less $ right now while Intel holds onto the performance lead it took with the Core 2. I've got an overclocked Athlon II x4 that shocks me sometimes in what it can do and a Phenom II x560 with a third core unlocked, but if I decided to build a performance PC I'd go straight to Sandybridge.

As for average performance Delta Phenom II is basically a longer lasting, socket-wise, Core 2 at affordable price points. Athlon II is pretty comparable to the current Pentiums but goes up to quad core without paying a premium. It's been a while since I had my S775 Core 2 system, but I think any look at performance needs to take into account the amazing variety of quality AMD motherboards available even on a budget.

In the mobile space AMD has yet to get out of Intel's shadow. Although Zacate definitely tripped up Intel's atom thanks to mobile demands being more about a combination of cpu and (usually integrated) gpu rather than pure cpu power.

 

[Phynaz]

This is exactly what intel has done during the P4 era, particularly
at the beginning, explicitly , forcing the consumer to buy an
inferior product

I missed the gun Intel was holding to my head. I was unaware I was forced to buy a computer with a P4 CPU.

 

[dguy6789]

That s not true, PhII is superior to a C2.

Phenom II is faster than Core 2 in 1 out of 31 tests.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/80?vs=49

Lying isn't good

 

[Schmide]

Phenom II is faster than Core 2 in 1 out of 31 tests.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/80?vs=49

Lying isn't good

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/85?vs=76

13 of 31 with a few too close to call if the caches are evened.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

An unlocked Phenom II made the most sense for upgrading all my 65nm C2D systems (fileserver, netserver, folks, etc.), given the insane prices on Q6600s and 45nm C2Qs.

 

[Arkaign]

An unlocked Phenom II made the most sense for upgrading all my 65nm C2D systems (fileserver, netserver, folks, etc.), given the insane prices on Q6600s and 45nm C2Qs.

This is true, and I made the same move myself, first to an PhII X4 805, then not long after to a 955BE. Coming from a S775 DDR2 setup at the time, the prices I got for my old equipment + the cost of new setup, going C2Q was prohibitive, and this was back when i7-920 + X58 was really expensive.

It's a bit different now, if I had the $ today, a PhII X4 or X6 is a senseless purchase, though for the real cheapie systems I still prefer Athlon II or cheap Phenom IIs + mobos w/ATI video to cheap Pentium Dual core or i3 systems with crappier video.

 

[Abwx]

I missed the gun Intel was holding to my head. I was unaware I was forced to buy a computer with a P4 CPU.

A gun or a handfull of dollars....
I did read in another thread that in 16 years you didn t deal with
a single AMD system.
So i suppose that by 2005, you did sell crappy P4 based servers.
No doubt that you dragged your customers inside some FUD and
sentences like " but the intels have more cores by the grace of
hyperthreading, not counting a much much higher frequency
than those crappy opteron64"....

And then telling JF AMD that you are not a liar..
Wrong, you had forcibly to be one at the time.

You could as well add :
"Phynaz "P4 based Xeon is way better then OPT64"
along with you current signature trashing Randy allen..

With such a background ,if i was you, i would keep mum,
at least on this very subject.

 

[aigomorla]

i think were failing to help the OP now, and trying to swing blue vs green now.

 

[Abwx]

i think were failing to help the OP now, and trying to swing blue vs green now.

As pointed by a poster, the thread was troll-ish starting with the
very first post..
Robertsxxx had full knowledge of the processors caracteristics
well before opening this messy pub...

 

[Morg.]

I missed the gun Intel was holding to my head. I was unaware I was forced to buy a computer with a P4 CPU.

Half-brainwashed, half-market limited.
What Intel did during the Athlon Xp + days almost killed AMD, nice shot Intel

No kidding, for 3 years Intel shouldn't have been able to sell a single chip and yet they kept most of the market -- lol ?

Oh and By the way, if anyone here thinks Intel could be in trouble because they can't make real GPU's or could be back in an Athlon CPU era - don't worry, they don't need good chips to make your stock worth its price

 

[IntelUser2000]

No kidding, for 3 years Intel shouldn't have been able to sell a single chip and yet they kept most of the market -- lol ?

Actually, even those days the average chips being sold were what we enthusiasts would call it "value". That's in the Pentium/Athlon II class if we speak in modern day equivalent.

Have you ever watched a TV documentary or read a story about people who has a special skill but seemed underappreciated? Making sure your products are out there and known for people to buy is just as important, if not more important as having a good product. The worst product is one that's not known to exist.

Also, Intel had the lead with mobile back then. Probably not as big as now, but it was there.

 

[Topweasel]

@Topweasel
Wrong. Time is Money. A chip with strong IPC gets work done quicker = Time is Money. In my former place of work we had Amd Magnycours chips in limited server deployments for non essential tasks. Every other computer used Intel chips. Mobile, Desktop, and Essential Server.

I thought you were smarter then just using the IPC catch phrase just to sound smart. IPC is nothing but one component of building a chip.

You want to tell me that any SB is a better buy then a similiar priced AMD CPU I can buy that. If you want to tell me that any Nahelem is a better buy then any smililar priced AMD CPU I get that. If you want to tell me the biggest advantage that the two have over similar priced AMD CPU's is their IPC, I would agree.

What I disagree with is the idea that IPC is the end of the world. When actually its easily negated with a clock advantage. What they have over AMD is that Intel designed a chip that clocks very well with a deeper pipeline and the ability to handle more instructions per clock. The problem is and one that AMD has run into in the past with the Thoroughbred is that if you go for IPC and their is an issue with the process you are using, or the die shrink, then all of a sudden you could find yourself very limited in clock speed. There is a balance and Intel found it, well at least for this generation.

In the last 10 years IPC and Clock speed crowns have gone back and forth dozens of times. The type of balance you are seeing now mirrors what AMD had with the original Athlon, Thunderbird, and Palomino over the different the PII/PIII. The design AMD picked for BD models the Netburst a bit. Its obvious that they want more cores for more IPC and are hoping they can clock it especially higher.

 

[Phynaz]

A gun or a handfull of dollars....
I did read in another thread that in 16 years you didn t deal with
a single AMD system.

Link please.

So i suppose that by 2005, you did sell crappy P4 based servers.
No doubt that you dragged your customers inside some FUD and
sentences like " but the intels have more cores by the grace of
hyperthreading, not counting a much much higher frequency
than those crappy opteron64"....

Sell? I haven't been in sales since 1990.

And then telling JF AMD that you are not a liar..
Wrong, you had forcibly to be one at the time.

I suspect you are about to get a visit from a mod.

 

[infoiltrator]

If it works don't fix it.
If you need it buy on sale.
How do you upgrade a 2500K?
Why make things easy?
If AMD goes what will InTeL charge?

 

[Abwx]

Link please.



Sell? I haven't been in sales since 1990.

Was that you, or was it the much ( and worthy as well) regretted
Michael Jackson..??...

No, I'm not including software. I was actually rounding down, our standard small workload server is a little over $16K for hardware and build.


That, or HP and AMD are not really that close. That could explain why in 19 years HP has not once even mentioned seeding me with an AMD system. And maybe that's why there isn't an AMD cpu to be found in the HP enterprise client elite line - desktop or laptop.

 

[Phynaz]

I'll mark that up to the language barrier.

In what you quoted I mentioned a specific company (HP) and a specific process (seeding).

Seed:
to place, introduce, etc., especially in the hope of increase or profit

It's a process where if somebody wants to sell lot of something they give the potential customer some for free. The hope is the company will try it out, like it, and buy more.

Think of it as a free trial.

As far as the last, go look on HP's website yourself. You cannot purchase a high end enterprise class desktop or laptop from HP with an AMD CPU in it. They don't make them.

 

[Arkaign]

Was that you, or was it the much ( and worthy as well) regretted
Michael Jackson..??...

Charlie Sheen? Is that you? You're making less sense with every post

 

[Arg Clin]

Phenom II X4 is more or less equal to the old core i5. In some things faster in others slower. I picked the Ph II myself, because I liked the platform better. With the Core i5 SB though, there's a brand new platform (and they've ironed out the worst bugs AFAIK), so for a mid-high end system or gaming rig I think the i5 SB makes most sense right now.

Hopefully Bulldozer will change that - not that I really care about blue vs green teams, I just like to see the competition and have the maximum of choice when I upgrade.

 

[Arkaign]

Phenom II X4 is more or less equal to the old core i5. In some things faster in others slower. I picked the Ph II myself, because I liked the platform better. With the Core i5 SB though, there's a brand new platform (and they've ironed out the worst bugs AFAIK), so for a mid-high end system or gaming rig I think the i5 SB makes most sense right now.

Hopefully Bulldozer will change that - not that I really care about blue vs green teams, I just like to see the competition and have the maximum of choice when I upgrade.

I have a PhII 955BE. Saying 'i5' is kind of misleading. If you mean Clarkdale dual-core i5, then yes, I can kind of see a certain parity (i5-650/etc). If you mean quad-core Lynnfield i5 (760/etc), then not at all, though stock speeds were at least somewhat close when you compare 3.4ghz 965BE to stock 2.66ghz i5-750. The PhII tops out usually just below 4ghz, but even at 4ghz, it's gonna get run over like a pancake by even a mildly overclocked lynnfield.

But yeah, i5-2500 is king right now for price/performance.

 

[Arg Clin]

I have a PhII 955BE. Saying 'i5' is kind of misleading. If you mean Clarkdale dual-core i5, then yes, I can kind of see a certain parity (i5-650/etc). If you mean quad-core Lynnfield i5 (760/etc), then not at all, though stock speeds were at least somewhat close when you compare 3.4ghz 965BE to stock 2.66ghz i5-750. The PhII tops out usually just below 4ghz, but even at 4ghz, it's gonna get run over like a pancake by even a mildly overclocked lynnfield.

But yeah, i5-2500 is king right now for price/performance.

Seems more or less on par with i5-750 .. depends on what you're doing.

I'm talking all stock speed - OC can be fun, but IMHO worthless for comparison, since OC results aren't consistant.

 

[RobertPters77]

@abwx
Wrong. All I wanted to know was how much real world difference in performance per clock their is between amd's current phenom and intel's last 3 architectures.

Your the one who comes in with his blind zealotry and tries to defame the other team.

[redacted]

 

[RobertPters77]

@topweasel

I disrespectfully disagree.

If company 'A' gives me a cpu at 3ghz that does 100 operations per second. And company 'B' gives me a cpu that does only 50 operations per second at the same clock speed. I'll buy the cpu from company 'A.' If the price is right though.

The whole More cores, + higher clock speed thing that amd is doing right now is the same thing intel did with the P4+HT in 2004.

Why is it that a 1075t at 190$ get's smashed by an i5-2300 at 185$? Both are in the same price range. Why isn't amd's more core + higher clock speed approach working? I'll tell you why. Performance per clock.

 

[OCGuy]

Well this thread turned into exactly what I thought it would once the Intel conspiracy that "Anand is part of" garbage started being posted.

I wish I could report the whole thread to the mods, but I don't think there is that option.