Average Obamacare Enroll - Age 50+ Game Set.

Nov 8, 2012
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Insurers say the early buyers of health coverage on the nation's troubled new websites are older than expected so far, raising early concerns about the economics of the insurance marketplaces.

If the trend continues, an older, more expensive set of customers could drive up prices for everyone, the insurers say, by forcing them to spread their costs around. "We need a broad range of people to make this work, and we're not seeing that right now," said Heather Thiltgen of Medical Mutual of Ohio, the state's largest insurer by individual customers. "We're seeing the population skewing older."

The early numbers, described to The Wall Street Journal by insurance executives, agents, state officials and actuaries, are still small—partly a consequence of the continuing technical problems plaguing the federally run exchanges, experts say. HealthCare.gov, the federally run marketplace serving 36 states, is suffering serious technical problems that have prevented many people from signing up.

But the numbers demonstrate a real-world fallout from the digital snafus: Less-healthy customers are more likely to persevere through technical obstacles to gain coverage, insurers say. Younger, healthier customers who feel less need for insurance—but whose widespread participation is important to the financial success of the system—could be quicker to give up.

The average enrollee age at Priority Health, a Michigan insurer, has ticked up to age 51 for newcomers, from about 41 years old for plans offered for the current year, said Joan Budden, chief marketing officer. Arise Health Plan, Wisconsin's largest nonprofit insurer, said more than half its 150 signees are over 50, a higher proportion than expected, while declining to be specific on its target age.

Industry experts cautioned that, a month into the health law's enrollment period, it is too soon to say what insurers' final pool of members will look like. Medical Mutual, for instance, has seen health-law enrollments so far in the "low triple digits," and Priority Health has seen fewer than 100. Both are selling on the federal exchange.

A White House official said the Obama administration expects most young, healthy enrollees to wait until the last minute to sign up, citing research showing that pattern when Massachusetts embarked on a similar health overhaul in 2007. People have until Dec. 15 to enroll in coverage starting Jan. 1, with open enrollment for coverage during the year lasting through next March.

In states that are running their own marketplaces and have seen smoother rollouts, officials are now also reporting a similar phenomenon, suggesting the economics of the law play a role, too. In Connecticut and Kentucky, which have enrolled more than 4,000 people each in private health plans so far, the largest segments of enrollees in new commercial health-law plans are over age 55, much older than industry actuaries say they had anticipated. Each state ultimately expects to register several hundred thousand people in their exchanges.

Age expectations for enrollees vary by market, but one adviser and several insurers said an average age of around 40 would be a typical target.

The more difficult it is for a person to sign up, "the more danger there is of having a bad risk pool," said Jim Whisler, an actuary for Deloitte Consulting LLP, which advises health plans participating in the marketplaces. "Indications to date are that that is playing out," he said.

The law bars insurers from charging sicker customers higher rates, and limits the amount they can charge older people compared with younger ones. It offers new subsidies to help cover premiums available to many lower-income applicants. Insurers are relying on a steady stream of younger, healthier enrollees to offset medical bills of older, sicker customers.

"The more sick people who do enroll, the more exposed [insurers] become," said Jim O'Connor, an actuary for Milliman Inc., a consulting firm.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/young-avoid-health-plans-014700566.html

Everyone knows the whole basis for Obamacare was another Pyramid Scheme, much like Social Security. What is that pyramid scheme? Depending on the new masses (The young) to contribute, while the old and dying (the one's actually using it) are abusing it - balancing out a "screw the young, pay for other people's shit" that we all know and love apparently. It appears no one is falling for this shit.

So, on a scale from 1-10... how screwed is this HORRIBLE plan for fixing our healthcare?

I'll start: 11
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
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how screwed is this HORRIBLE plan for fixing our healthcare?

Well considering the fact from the beginning the plan was to consolidate and ruin the private insurance industry to force us towards a single payer system, I think it is right on track.
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
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The Republicans in the House will not allow that though, Obama played his hand poorly with this legislation. The flaws that would be responsible for such a collapse will only give his opposition traction, their arguments all along will receive validation and the Republicans will be able to take credit for fixing the Democrats follies.

That is if the more stubborn elements of the party can play ball; As well as if the Republican leadership still has any foresight and political touch.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Well considering the fact from the beginning the plan was to consolidate and ruin the private insurance industry to force us towards a single payer system, I think it is right on track.

Based on experience of every other universal health care country, we'll either have an individual mandate system or a single payer system, or some hybrid. The American people will decide one way or the other.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/young-avoid-health-plans-014700566.html

Everyone knows the whole basis for Obamacare was another Pyramid Scheme, much like Social Security. What is that pyramid scheme? Depending on the new masses (The young) to contribute, while the old and dying (the one's actually using it) are abusing it - balancing out a "screw the young, pay for other people's shit" that we all know and love apparently. It appears no one is falling for this shit.

So, on a scale from 1-10... how screwed is this HORRIBLE plan for fixing our healthcare?

I'll start: 11

All insurance is a pyramid scheme by your definition where the more fortunate subsidize the less fortunate. That is how insurance works. The young and healthy of today are likely the future's old and sick, so it balances out.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I assume this means that those with pre-existing conditions are signing up in droves as expected.
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
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To be fair they probably were less motivated to attempt to sign up given the recent website issues.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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All insurance is a pyramid scheme by your definition where the more fortunate subsidize the less fortunate. That is how insurance works. The young and healthy of today are likely the future's old and sick, so it balances out.

Nope.

Normally in the insurance game you are paying based on how risky you are. That is not the case here. This is a case of socialism in that you are all equally paying the same amount, except not everyone is taking the same amount.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Nope.

Normally in the insurance game you are paying based on how risky you are. That is not the case here. This is a case of socialism in that you are all equally paying the same amount, except not everyone is taking the same amount.

Last I checked, at my work, everyone pays same for insurance, regardless of how risky they are and how much they use. I guess all private companies that provide this type of health insurance are socialists.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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Last I checked, at my work, everyone pays same for insurance, regardless of how risky they are and how much they use.

Bwahahaha, your company sure doesn't. Also, we aren't talking large office pools from corporate discounts setup with the insurance agency that are averaged out.

How about other questions such as Do you Smoke?
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Bwahahaha, your company sure doesn't.
There are no health questions at my company's open enrollment, and same price for all employees, regardless of pre-existing conditions.
Also, we aren't talking large office pools from corporate discounts setup with the insurance agency that are averaged out.

How about other questions such as Do you Smoke?

Obamacare individual mandate is creating a large pool for the exchange plans, so that people in the individual market get same risk pooling (or as you call it, "socialism") benefits as those working for large companies.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,016
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I suspect this is true. However the plan to have young suckers sign up and pay for it is not working out as expected so far.

Of course the people who signed up first are those most motivated to do so due to age and/or illness. Is that even the slightest bit surprising?

mass_enrollment_blue.jpg


What is sad is how hard so many people are rooting for the ACA to fail.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
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All insurance is a pyramid scheme by your definition where the more fortunate subsidize the less fortunate. That is how insurance works. The young and healthy of today are likely the future's old and sick, so it balances out.
Research birth rates in the U.S. You will come to realize that Obamacare will be the least of our worries.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Research birth rates in the U.S. You will come to realize that Obamacare will be the least of our worries.

Either way, the young, healthy, and wealthy are going to subsidize the old, sick, and poor. Unless your plan is to simply ignore the old, sick, and poor and let them suffer, and that won't fly politically.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
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Average cost of insurance for young people has gone up steeply under ACA, it serving as yet another transfer of wealth from the young to the rich. I hope Obama et al are not surprised when they find this trend continuing.

What is interesting is how few have still signed up. That is because even when you call to sign up you're basically sent through the website anyway, except by somebody on your behalf. I would be shocked if the site is running cleanly by December 1.
 

Dannar26

Senior member
Mar 13, 2012
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What is sad is how hard so many people are rooting for the ACA to fail.

Partisan malcontent.

It would be refreshing to see something work. Healthcare is a big problem. It seems obvious that this wasn't going to work...and now, well...
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,016
55,464
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Partisan malcontent.

It would be refreshing to see something work. Healthcare is a big problem. It seems obvious that this wasn't going to work...and now, well...

It is quite likely going to work as shown by direct experience in previous similar systems. People get carried away with the day to day ups and downs with this much like in an election horse race.

So good news, I find it very likely that you can be refreshed! Happy now?
 

Dman8777

Senior member
Mar 28, 2011
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Isn't that the expected average? No one under 20 will sign up and the average lifespan today is ~80, that puts the median at 50... or am I missing something?
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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Isn't that the expected average? No one under 20 will sign up and the average lifespan today is ~80, that puts the median at 50... or am I missing something?

You can also stay on parents insurance till 26. But on the other hand, over 65 are eligible for Medicare. So I would expect the average for target audience closer to 45.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Isn't that the expected average? No one under 20 will sign up and the average lifespan today is ~80, that puts the median at 50... or am I missing something?

You are missing something. Something VERY important.

#1) Average lifespan is 78 in the US. Our nation is heavily obese, it's funny, our lifespan is something that is missing the "middle class". Most are either going to die at ~55-65, or from 85-100.

#2) The most important point that is being missed the most: THIS IS A PYRAMID SCHEME. That means, they MUST have shitloads of young people to account for the older generations taking advantage and paying the same (or less) price. You must understand, the principle of ObamaCare revolves around the idea that the population is still multiplying (when in reality, population growth has actually slowed down, see boomerang's post on birth rates). Even if it was at the average age, that would not matter because what is needed is for it to be heavily on the young side, hence Pyramid Scheme.
 
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sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,649
2,925
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Last I checked, at my work, everyone pays same for insurance, regardless of how risky they are and how much they use. I guess all private companies that provide this type of health insurance are socialists.

Technically, not apples to apples. Your employer is charged by the insurance company and passes a portion of that charge on to you. When the insurer sends your employer a bill it is rated based on morbidity (i.e. in proportion to risk). That your employer chooses to pass the cost on to the employees in a flat manner is a different dynamic.