Avatar made me want to throw up

[weflyhigh]

To the people who say "it's just a movie":
If you bought a video game and they forced you to brutally kill puppies and babies, you cannot tell me you would not feel uneasy. If you saw animated child pornography, you cannot tell me you would not feel uneasy (hell, I'm pretty sure animated is still illegal, right? So, the government even agrees that not-real things can cause real problems).

Just look at that thread about the airport mission in COD MW2. People either felt uneasy about the entire situation or at least did not go out of their way to kill the civilians (even though they would not have been penalized in the least and the entire mission would have been easier).

 

[yh125d]

To the people who say "it's just a movie":
If you bought a video game and they forced you to brutally kill puppies and babies, you cannot tell me you would not feel uneasy. If you saw animated child pornography, you cannot tell me you would not feel uneasy (hell, I'm pretty sure animated is still illegal, right? So, the government even agrees that not-real things can cause real problems).

Just look at that thread about the airport mission in COD MW2. People either felt uneasy about the entire situation or at least did not go out of their way to kill the civilians (even though they would not have been penalized in the least and the entire mission would have been easier).

I would say...


It's a damn game, you jackass



And for the record I played the MW2 mission. And I killed lots of civilians. It's not our fault idiots like you don't have the mental capacity to separate fantasy from reality

 

[JEDI]

To the people who say "it's just a movie":
If you bought a video game and they forced you to brutally kill puppies and babies, you cannot tell me you would not feel uneasy. If you saw animated child pornography, you cannot tell me you would not feel uneasy (hell, I'm pretty sure animated is still illegal, right? So, the government even agrees that not-real things can cause real problems).

Just look at that thread about the airport mission in COD MW2. People either felt uneasy about the entire situation or at least did not go out of their way to kill the civilians (even though they would not have been penalized in the least and the entire mission would have been easier).

animated = illegal?! since when?

didnt the supreme court rule on this aready? even if life like, it's still FAKE

/thread hijack try #2

 

[Koudelka]

SPOILERS

Let me say the movie looked AMAZING and the special effects were mind blowing. But, about half? way into the movie, I started to want to throw up:
The main characters of the movie do a complete 180 and started MURDERING their fellow soldiers and American comrades.
I understand if you do not believe in what your government is doing - and if you believe this strongly enough you can get a dishonorable discharge from the military - but to literally a) steal American weapons and then b) use them to kill those Americans you fought side by side with and are contracted under law with to serve fully and honorably just made me sick.

When that girl helicopter pilot turned her American helicopter around and started firing at her superiors, my stomach started turning. I felt no sympathy at all when she got blown up.
Treason is arguably the WORST crime a person can commit. In fact, it is the only crime documented in the US constitution. If she wants to turn her helicopter back, refuse to fight, and get sent to prison for disobeying the law, then she can - that is her only right.


Another thing that bothered me was the fact that the natives would have gotten stomped on if 1) they did not use any of the "Sky Peoples"'s weapons or 2) they hadn't gotten extremely fortunate (those explosives were seconds from being dropped before a stolen grenade stopped it - and then the second grenade that blew the hole).

I'm not a fan of any movie that shows the American military being defeated.

Notes:
I know there are threads on the movie, but I want this thread to be specifically about this part of the movie and also about Americans being defeated in movies in general.
I am contracted in the Army ROTC.

Holy crap. You sir, are retarded. This is fact.

Its a movie. Please find a small cave, move in, and never come out. Thank you.

Oh, also nobody gives a shit about your rotc contract, i happen to be active duty, and i still think you're an utter moron.

 

[HumblePie]

Just finished watching the movie and I will make some points.


One...

These were NOT soliders. These were all mercs and prior military. It was stated up front. The main character Sully, was forced out of the military due to his injury. The corporation signed him on in his twin brothers places because he had on other obligations. That and he could be an avatar.

These were NOT soldiers defending their country, their lives, or their loved ones. These were mercs out for money. Plain and simple. That was the point of the movie.

Also, as a FORMER enlisted man, I will state the following. The military tells you to obey the LAWFUL orders of your superiors, but not the unlawful. You have EVERY RIGHT and it is deemed acceptable, to disobey orders when they are unlawful as the orders of the merc commander was.

Anyone who disagrees needs to go back and read their AFI's PFIs or whatever other manual you were given back in BMT. Otherwise you are another brainwashed sorry sack of shit without the brains to be in the military and only a damn meatbag peice of fodder. The military doesn't want complete mindless drones. They want SOLDIERS. Have you not at least seen A Few Good Men? the point being, even though the soldiers were "following orders" they were unlawful and just as guilty as Jack Nicholson's character for giving them. Go read your history and you'll see that this shit happens in real life, and the perps do get caught.


That being said, it was a wonderful movie in my opinion.

 

[Poulsonator]

I've seen it mentioned a few times. Here is the first mention a quick search shows.

Oh, I know how the system works, I've just never heard anyone say they're gonna wait 3 weeks to see a movie because they don't want Hollywood to get the majority of their money. Usually folks wait to see a movie to let the crowds die down.

I know I, personally, don't give a rat's ass who gets my money after I buy my ticket.

 

[Aluvus]

The main characters of the movie do a complete 180 and started MURDERING their fellow soldiers and American comrades.

It is specifically stated at multiple points that the humans on Pandora work for a corporation (RDA), and not any government: it's mentioned in part of the setup at the beginning of the movie, and late in the movie the guy in charge (Parker Selfridge; yes I IMDB'd it) makes a reference to quarterly reports... because this is a for-profit enterprise.

Even ignoring all of this, none of those characters raised a hand against anyone in the RDA (the greatest violence they had done was to destroy some cameras) until after the RDA forces had opened fire on a structure that they knew several of those characters were (sort of) in.

Another thing that bothered me was the fact that the natives would have gotten stomped on if 1) they did not use any of the "Sky Peoples"'s weapons

I doubt it is a coincidence that the Native Americans had their greatest military successes against the Americans using rifles that they had stolen or purchased from the Americans. The movie can be seen substantially as an allegory for that conflict (it didn't pick up the nickname "Dances with Wolves in space" for nothing).

I'm not a fan of any movie that shows the American military being defeated.

Ignoring for a moment that this movie was not about the American military, you sound like a child. The American military is no more invulnerable than any other, and it would serve us well to remember that. The War of 1812 and Vietnam were both painful defeats, and there are plenty of other conflicts (WWII, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq) where we spent a lot of time losing.

 

[Newbian]

P & N <---

Go troll there.

 

[Jeff7]

Reading the link in Aluvus' post.....they seriously called the stuff "unobtanium?"
Oy....
Gee, the very same stuff that the hull of the subterranean dig-a-ma-jig in "The Core" was made out of, and also used in numerous comics.

Couldn't they have come up with anything else to call it? Hell, cameronium would be preferable.



Oh well, looks like something I'll probably watch - once I can get a cheap used copy of the DVD.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

I really can't put my finger on one aspect, but CGI just looks fake. Things like smoke and fire and mountains and clouds in the distance are fine, but when you start making humans and animals and space aliens, they start to really piss me off.

If you mean superior officers, I mean lieutenants and up.

QFMFT.

Any movie that does this=fail.

 

[Jeff7]

QFMFT.

Any movie that does this=fail.

Were the LOTR movies == fail, in your opinion?

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Were the LOTR movies == fail, in your opinion?

The movies were alright, but yes some of the ways in which CGI was used I disagree with. A few years from now it will be even worse as CGI characters do not age well.

 

[weflyhigh]

From the UCMJ, all of these were violated, ignoring whether the orders were lawful or not. I have already said that if you do not believe what you are ordered, you HAVE THE RIGHT to not obey it (and if it is unlawful, you are obligated to do so). You can go to prison and then let the court martials decide if that order was lawful or not afterwards.
You are not sanctioned to: supply the enemy with weapons/intelligence/assistance. If you do, you are to be punished by death, especially in a time of war.

895. ARTICLE 95. RESISTANCE, BREACH OF ARREST, AND ESCAPE

Any person subject to this chapter who resists apprehension or breaks arrest or who escapes from custody shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

896. ARTICLE 96. RELEASING PRISONER WITHOUT PROPER AUTHORITY

Any person subject to this chapter who, without proper authority, releases any prisoner committed to his charge, or who through neglect or design suffers any such prisoner to escape, shall be punished as a court-martial may direct, whether or not the prisoner was committed in strict compliance with law.

899. ARTICLE 99. MISBEHAVIOR BEFORE THE ENEMY

Any person subject to this chapter who before or in the presence of the enemy--

(1) runs away;

(2) shamefully abandons, surrenders, or delivers up any command, unit, place, or military property which it is his duty to defend;

(3) through disobedience, neglect, or intentional misconduct endangers the safety of any such command, unit, place, or military property;

(4) casts away his arms or ammunition;

(5) is guilty of cowardly conduct;

(6) quits his place of duty to plunder or pillage;

(7) causes false alarms in any command, unit, or place under control of the armed forces;

(8) willfully fails to do his utmost to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy any enemy troops, combatants, vessels, aircraft, or any other thing, which it is his duty so to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy; or

(9) does not afford all practicable relief and assistance to any troops, combatants, vessels, or aircraft of the armed forces belonging to the United States or their allies when engaged in battle;

shall be punished by death or such punishment as a court- martial may direct.

904. ARTICLE 104. AIDING THE ENEMY

Any person who--

(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or

(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or [protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;

shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.

NOW, regards to lawful or not:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

809. ARTICLE 90. ASSAULTING OR WILLFULLY DISOBEYING SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER.

Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) strikes his superior commissioned officer or draws or lifts up any weapon or offers any violence against him while he is in the execution of his officer; or

(2) willfully disobeys a lawful command of his superior commissioned officer;

shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, and if the offense is committed at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.

From the Universal Declaration of HUMAN Rights:

Article I
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Article 2
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.
Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
Article 3
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Article 4
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 5
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.


Article 6
Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
Article 7
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
Article 8
Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.
Article 9
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
Article 10
Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
Article 11
1. Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
2. No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier


penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.
Article 12
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
Article 13
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each State.
2. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
Article 14
1. Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
2. This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
Article 15
1. Everyone has the right to a nationality.
2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
Article 16


1. Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
2. Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
3. The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
Article 17
1. Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.
Article 18
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
Article 19
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
Article 20
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association.
Article 21


1. Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
2. Everyone has the right to equal access to public service in his country.
3. The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
Article 22
Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.
Article 23
1. Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
2. Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
3. Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
4. Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
Article 24
Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.


Article 25
1. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
2. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
Article 26
1. Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
2. Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
3. Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.
Article 27
1. Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.


2. Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.
Article 28
Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.
Article 29
1. Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
2. In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
3. These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
Article 30
Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

Assuming the "blue monkeys" even deserve to be treated similarly under international HUMAN rights laws, even still none of their basic rights were violated - also assuming a valid casus belli (which we are assuming for the entire movie to make sense).
The orders given were within "lawful" limits. The Marines even made EXTRA attempt out of kindness for the people. The main character wasted 3 months and did not even properly deliver the one message necessary for saving many "lives". He was supposed to tell them to move or die, but he did not successfully do so until much later than the Marines had intended. I'd say over 3 months warning and due compensation is definitely reasonable, especially in a time of war with HOSTILE non-human enemies (as little as it is worth, let us not forget who made the very first shot).

There was nothing shown in the movie that would hint that the justification of attack was invalid.

Just because you might FEEL bad about something, that is no excuse to betray your country:
From the Manual for Courts Martials:

However, the dictates of a person’s
conscience, religion, or personal philosophy
cannot justify or excuse the disobedience of an otherwise
lawful order.

 

[Newbian]

Wall of text crit x2

 

[Molondo]

Lol, this is too funny.
In cs, i always play terrorist. Are you going to cry about that?

 

[mav451]

Many reviews called it "Dances with Wolves" with aliens. Now if you hadn't heard that before, ok, but you had to have realistic expectations for the story line. Heck, even the trailer spoiled this a little bit. You can get mad all you want, but the story was pretty clearly going in this direction.

And once again - this is a movie with aliens. Lol at any serious discussion about procedure/code or whatever.

 

[Newbian]

Lol, this is too funny.
In cs, i always play terrorist. Are you going to cry about that?

Only if you awp...

 

[lifeobry]

Wall of text crit x2

lol

Dude, they weren't marines. It was a private army. Your argument is based on your misunderstanding of the facts.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

why do alot of people pick apart a story line to such lenghts...

 

[yh125d]

snip

I'm glad that not all of our armed forces have an IQ as low as yours









Go sodomize a donkey

 

[Meghan54]

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah

There. Now that that's fixed......grow up.

My husband served during Vietnam.....8 years.

He read your gibberish and just fell out laughing! How can you compare real life to a story being told via a movie?

True, some movies attempt to tell a moral tale, but to get upset and twistedly obcessed with its inaccuracies and "it's Unamerican!!!" supposed theme you seem to be spouting about, just boggles the mind. And the "I'd never watch anything about America losing...." claptrap you spewed out......don't ever watch anything about Vietnam, Korea, WWII or other conflicts. Hint: America has had numerous defeats throughout history, battles and wars. It happens.

After you turn 25, let us know if reality has finally set in.

ps.....Just an FYI, but puberty is going to be a bitch, too............

 

[WHAMPOM]

SPOILERS

Let me say the movie looked AMAZING and the special effects were mind blowing. But, about half? way into the movie, I started to want to throw up:
The main characters of the movie do a complete 180 and started MURDERING their fellow soldiers and American comrades.
I understand if you do not believe in what your government is doing - and if you believe this strongly enough you can get a dishonorable discharge from the military - but to literally a) steal American weapons and then b) use them to kill those Americans you fought side by side with and are contracted under law with to serve fully and honorably just made me sick.

When that girl helicopter pilot turned her American helicopter around and started firing at her superiors, my stomach started turning. I felt no sympathy at all when she got blown up.
Treason is arguably the WORST crime a person can commit. In fact, it is the only crime documented in the US constitution. If she wants to turn her helicopter back, refuse to fight, and get sent to prison for disobeying the law, then she can - that is her only right.


Another thing that bothered me was the fact that the natives would have gotten stomped on if 1) they did not use any of the "Sky Peoples"'s weapons or 2) they hadn't gotten extremely fortunate (those explosives were seconds from being dropped before a stolen grenade stopped it - and then the second grenade that blew the hole).

I'm not a fan of any movie that shows the American military being defeated.

Notes:
I know there are threads on the movie, but I want this thread to be specifically about this part of the movie and also about Americans being defeated in movies in general.
I am contracted in the Army ROTC.

I am quite sure that the oath you take requires you to obey and uphold the law and constitution first and your superior officers last. Other then that you are being a silly boy getting all hotsie/wotsie over a movie.

 

[frostedflakes]

The US military has done a good job of indoctrinating this one.

 

[Ackmed]

SPOILERS

Let me say the movie looked AMAZING and the special effects were mind blowing. But, about half? way into the movie, I started to want to throw up:
The main characters of the movie do a complete 180 and started MURDERING their fellow soldiers

They are Marines... not soldiers. There is a difference, just a fyi.

 

[Bateluer]

The US military has done a good job of indoctrinating this one.

What's the emoticon for roll eyes now?

I go to movies to be entertained, if I wanted a political commentary, I wouldn't go to the movie theater. Thanks to the OP for bringing this to my attention so I don't waste my time or money on political bull.