Avatar made me want to throw up

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SphinxnihpS

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2005
8,368
25
91
lol I support murdering your commanding officers in real life.

I also still think that CGI special effects look completely fake.
 

Adrenaline

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2005
5,320
8
81
Actually, no, these were not mercenaries. These were Marines on a tour to Pandora. Sully spent the rest of his contract finishing what his brother couldn't.

They came off as hired guns to me, nothing more. I may have to watch it again but I did not get how it could be military. So, you're saying the military works for a greedy corporation in this movie?

I will see it again in a few months when it comes out on blu-ray.
 

SphinxnihpS

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2005
8,368
25
91
Which part specifically?

I really can't put my finger on one aspect, but CGI just looks fake. Things like smoke and fire and mountains and clouds in the distance are fine, but when you start making humans and animals and space aliens, they start to really piss me off.

If you mean superior officers, I mean lieutenants and up.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
ROFL! What a fucking troll.

"My country, right or wrong!"

Seriously, I too am contracted (graduate at the end of this year. huzzah), though I'll be in the Army Reserve (no idea what the hell I'm doing for my 40hour workweek yet, lol).

I haven't seen this yet, probably going Tuesday to get cheap tickets: $6 at National Amusements, I think nationwide, and regardless of screen type. Imax? $6. Sadly, not driving 45min for Imax again. Not when it was all digitally filmed, a RealD viewing will work just fine.

I'll be the first to admit at this point, I'll fight where I'm told, no qualms. But I'll also be the first one to question something terribly wrong, it's in my nature to constantly question. :D But seriously, morally/ethically wrong command deserves justice.

Like I said, I haven't seen this, and have no clue specifically WHO the invading humans represent, be it a country, all of Earth, or just a corporation, but it doesn't matter.

As a civilian, I say pillage and destroy whatever it takes for us to succeed. That's me relishing in my animal pride - we're animals, and when you come across new creatures, you do what it takes to secure what you need to secure. If that creature is sitting on important resources (say a never before encountered creature has just taken over the watering hole)... what do you do? Attempt to befriend this species? Pounce on them, kill, and ask questions later? Or run away and give up without a second thought? Level of intelligence should never come into play, it doesn't matter. Life isn't some fancy game where the brightest stick together, where you reach some fictional level of intelligence and all of a sudden get advanced to the next level where more intelligent creatures are now common and you work in co-op to explore the Universe as a team. For all we know, the first moments we encounter a more intelligence species, could be our last moments of life - if they know what's good for them, they surely would obliterate us and pillage Earth. Resource rich planet with an arguably retarded species ruling it.
;)

Now, as the military side of me, I say: gotta fight with standards, and in the case of native people, do what it takes to secure the objective but in the end represent who is being represented in a positive light. Make them, while not necessarily LIKE you, at least not hate you. Don't want natives hating the invader, but if you can secure cooperation, befriend the natives, a hell of a lot can be accomplished. Especially if it's over something the natives don't even use.

as far as this movie, it's hardly an original tale.
Europeans invaded America and raped, pillaged, and plundered the native peoples of the Americas, all for the resources they had.
The U.S. committed treason and terrorism against the powers of the Colonies to secure their own land.
The U.S. raped, pillaged, and plundered the native peoples of Western N.A. to secure the resources out there.
just saying...
 

Proprioceptive

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2006
1,630
10
81
They came off as hired guns to me, nothing more. I may have to watch it again but I did not get how it could be military. So, you're saying the military works for a greedy corporation in this movie?

I will see it again in a few months when it comes out on blu-ray.

Haha... who tells the military what to do? The politicians. Who tells the politicians what to do? Special interest groups ala corporations... so yeah, the military works for greedy corporations in the movie... :D
 

Adrenaline

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2005
5,320
8
81
Haha... who tells the military what to do? The politicians. Who tells the politicians what to do? Special interest groups ala corporations... so yeah, the military works for greedy corporations in the movie... :D

I guess they could have developed a little more on this part of the story. I enjoyed the movie, but will have to watch it again to see.
 
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Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
...
as far as this movie, it's hardly an original tale.
Europeans invaded America and raped, pillaged, and plundered the native peoples of the Americas, all for the resources they had.
The U.S. committed treason and terrorism against the powers of the Colonies to secure their own land.
The U.S. raped, pillaged, and plundered the native peoples of Western N.A. to secure the resources out there.
just saying...
And yet every time a new scenario comes up where we can choose between the livelihood of a native populace and their resources, we still quickly forget history. "OMG, their stuff is awesome! Kill them all, they don't matter!"




Treason as the worst thing a person can do? No, I'd say not. Yes, it's worse than abruptly telling your employer, "Go to hell, I quit," and then trashing your office, but it's along those lines. A government is a logistics venture, a way of organizing a bunch of otherwise unruly people. And when one invariably falls, another will eventually take its place, either by collective will of the people, or, more likely, by the will of a small group of power-hungry individuals. But one way or another, order will be brought, fanboys will come forth to fly the banner of the new government, and eventually, it too will fall.

Concerning treason in the Constitution, I figure it's in there because of the circumstances present during the formation of the US. It was a tiny infant of a country, so they wouldn't want anyone screwing it up at that stage, hence you state specifically that treason is a very bad thing.

All that said, hey, once you've got a good organizational structure, might as well stick with it - and yes, acts to destroy it would be viewed as a crime. The worst one possible? No, not by far. Worthy of a death sentence? I suppose that depends on the circumstances, and the amount of damage done, some of which will have a very subjective portion.


Finally, yes, it's a movie, a work of fiction. (Which I have yet to see.)
There are lots of things that go into making a movie like this that's profitable.
1) You need the "bad guys" to be really bad, down to the core. That makes it "ok" to kill them, or at least easier, in the minds of the audience.
That of course makes it more likely that they'll leave the movie feeling good, and will tell friends to go see it as well. Plus they'll probably want to see it again and again.
2) Test audiences will invariably lead to changes in the movie, often dumbing it down in some way.
3) It has to have characters that the audience is more likely to relate to. Why do the characters come off as American? Because it's an American audience that they want to pander to. If it was made in China, guess what, you'd have a lot of Chinese characters. It's just another way to make the movie more marketable to its target audience.


I'm not a fan of any movie that shows the American military being defeated.
All armies are defeated at some point in time. It happens.

Notes:
I know there are threads on the movie, but I want this thread to be specifically about this part of the movie and also about Americans being defeated in movies in general.
I am contracted in the Army ROTC.
For myself, I'm a civilian who finds the very need for an organization like an army pretty sad. I do understand that, given our species' nature, in that it is so very innately predatory that it will readily prey on itself, despite having what we call "free will", armies are necessary for our defense. Though they're really just an extension of an individual trying to protect himself from other human predators - an army is just an outgrowth of a government, protecting itself from other predatory governments.

But still, I find it more profoundly terrible that we are so willing to prey on ourselves, often for things which are in no way related to survival, but only to profitability, and a desire to feel superior.
 
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BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
14,011
3,400
146
I haven't even seen the movie and I know you are wrong about pretty much every point. Hopefully you were just really drunk or high when you watched it.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
SPOILERS

Let me say the movie looked AMAZING and the special effects were mind blowing. But, about half? way into the movie, I started to want to throw up:
The main characters of the movie do a complete 180 and started MURDERING their fellow soldiers and American comrades.
I understand if you do not believe in what your government is doing - and if you believe this strongly enough you can get a dishonorable discharge from the military - but to literally a) steal American weapons and then b) use them to kill those Americans you fought side by side with and are contracted under law with to serve fully and honorably just made me sick.

When that girl helicopter pilot turned her American helicopter around and started firing at her superiors, my stomach started turning. I felt no sympathy at all when she got blown up.
Treason is arguably the WORST crime a person can commit. In fact, it is the only crime documented in the US constitution. If she wants to turn her helicopter back, refuse to fight, and get sent to prison for disobeying the law, then she can - that is her only right.


Another thing that bothered me was the fact that the natives would have gotten stomped on if 1) they did not use any of the "Sky Peoples"'s weapons or 2) they hadn't gotten extremely fortunate (those explosives were seconds from being dropped before a stolen grenade stopped it - and then the second grenade that blew the hole).

I'm not a fan of any movie that shows the American military being defeated.

Notes:
I know there are threads on the movie, but I want this thread to be specifically about this part of the movie and also about Americans being defeated in movies in general.
I am contracted in the Army ROTC.

You need to relax. It's just a movie.

Holy christ.

You know what's even more frightening? Knowing we have people like you on the front lines -people who can't tell the fucking difference between real life and make-believe.

You should NOT be in the service.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
1. OK
2. The "Sky People" never once made the first move without due warning. They wanted the tree and so they took it. Eminent domain. I am sure the resources provided under that tree could be used to help save many American lives - why else would it be so valuable. The natives were being greedy. They did not have to die and they did not have to retaliate. If they wanted to retaliate, that is fine, but do not expect sympathy.
If all had gone according to plan, NO ONE would have died and who knows what benefits would have come. Not to mention, they are not even humans. If a dog is sitting on top of an epipen and I get stung by a bee, you better believe I will put my human life over that dog's to get it. And be justified. I am saying this as an ASPCA volunteer, too.
3. Treason can be considered worse than murder and rape when you look at it like this: a government is set up by people to protect those people. That protection includes protection from things like murder and rape and then also punishment of violators. Treason, specifically, is the betrayal of that government and the entire system. Destroying the government also destroys laws and essentially ALLOWS murder and rape.
4. The ranks matched up specifically with those of America - not to mention American names, dialects, armor, features, etc.
5. I put that in there to say that I might be biased. You are a douchebag for turning that around any other way.
1. You are an idiot.
2. Based on your theory of Eminent domain we should just go into the middle east and take any land that has oil under it. Of course we should warn the Arabs to move first, and if they don't move we should blow them to hell.
3. The movie is VERY CLEAR that these were mercenaries hired to do the job. BTW if Blackwater decided to start razing entire towns in Iraq in order to make its job of securing the country would you think it a bad thing if one of their own objected to killing innocents?
4. The ranks match up because it is an American made movie and they wanted us Americans to understand what is all meant. I suppose they could have referred to the head bad guy "Oberst" and Sully as "Oberstabsgefreiter" but then most Americans would have been like 'what the hell?" (I wonder what they call these guys in subtitled versions?)
5. I hope you meant to say JRROTC because if you are in line to be an office then god help us.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,738
126
SPOILERS

Let me say the movie looked AMAZING and the special effects were mind blowing. But, about half? way into the movie, I started to want to throw up:
The main characters of the movie do a complete 180 and started MURDERING their fellow soldiers and American comrades.
I understand if you do not believe in what your government is doing - and if you believe this strongly enough you can get a dishonorable discharge from the military - but to literally a) steal American weapons and then b) use them to kill those Americans you fought side by side with and are contracted under law with to serve fully and honorably just made me sick.

When that girl helicopter pilot turned her American helicopter around and started firing at her superiors, my stomach started turning. I felt no sympathy at all when she got blown up.
Treason is arguably the WORST crime a person can commit. In fact, it is the only crime documented in the US constitution. If she wants to turn her helicopter back, refuse to fight, and get sent to prison for disobeying the law, then she can - that is her only right.


Another thing that bothered me was the fact that the natives would have gotten stomped on if 1) they did not use any of the "Sky Peoples"'s weapons or 2) they hadn't gotten extremely fortunate (those explosives were seconds from being dropped before a stolen grenade stopped it - and then the second grenade that blew the hole).

I'm not a fan of any movie that shows the American military being defeated.

Notes:
I know there are threads on the movie, but I want this thread to be specifically about this part of the movie and also about Americans being defeated in movies in general.
I am contracted in the Army ROTC.

/thread hijack

i would have enjoyed the movie more if it werent for the baby crying in the background.

come on guys.. uplooad a better copy SOON.. Pretty please!

/thread hijack

discuss
 

OFFascist

Senior member
Jun 10, 2002
985
0
0
I plan to see it for the 3D and visuals, but I'm going to wait till the 3rd week it is out (if it lasts that long) that way atleast the movie theater will get a bigger cut of the ticket prices instead of sending it to Hollywood people.
 

Poulsonator

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2002
1,597
0
76
I plan to see it for the 3D and visuals, but I'm going to wait till the 3rd week it is out (if it lasts that long) that way atleast the movie theater will get a bigger cut of the ticket prices instead of sending it to Hollywood people.

Interesting. I've never heard anyone say this.
 

Terzo

Platinum Member
Dec 13, 2005
2,589
27
91
Interesting. I've never heard anyone say this.

I've seen it mentioned a few times. Here is the first mention a quick search shows.

I have to admit, I wonder how much the snowstorm on the east coast will hurt the opening weekend; I feel like it will cause a significant dent.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
106
2. The "Sky People" never once made the first move without due warning. They wanted the tree and so they took it. Eminent domain. I am sure the resources provided under that tree could be used to help save many American lives - why else would it be so valuable. The natives were being greedy. They did not have to die and they did not have to retaliate. If they wanted to retaliate, that is fine, but do not expect sympathy.
If all had gone according to plan, NO ONE would have died and who knows what benefits would have come. Not to mention, they are not even humans. If a dog is sitting on top of an epipen and I get stung by a bee, you better believe I will put my human life over that dog's to get it. And be justified. I am saying this as an ASPCA volunteer, too.

WOW.

That's all I can say to this. WOW.

So if a valuable mineral is found under your house and the government surrounds your house with soldiers and says GTFO, you'd be fine with that?

If only we had a time machine and the founding fathers could read an American soldier say that.