Avatar made me want to throw up

[destrekor]

Lmao, you guys really don't see that the mercenaries are meant to represent America? You know that blue aliens don't really exist right? They represent something too...

For recent history story re-tellings, they represent Western Europeans (and hence, America), and the blue guys represent... well pick - Native Americans, Arabic People, other ethnic people who had land stolen by us white people.

But it'd be a lie to say they can only represent America - because that same practice has been a human concept since it began. Take land for the good things it offers, and do whatever possible to claim, own, and protect said land from the people who originally lived on it.

More so - it represents a developed nation claiming ownership of something that belongs to impoverished/tribal people. Far from being only a White thing, let alone American.

I'd say about the most recent very strong connection would be Americans/Native Americans, for resources to claim full ownership were involved (including land itself). Our foray into the Middle East, if anyone in this thread is even suggesting that, is hardly anything similar - we aren't claiming land for the U.S., nor are we directly reaping the benefits of any resource.

 

[manowar821]

Made you want to throw up? Probably because you're a nationalist little cry-baby.

 

[Cogman]

Lmao, you guys really don't see that the mercenaries are meant to represent America? You know that blue aliens don't really exist right? They represent something too...

No no no, they are nazi communist fascists. They represent hitler and how evil he is. That was the moral of the movie, hitler sucks and america is awesome.

Its like the war of 1812 when the nazis tried to take over America. Here we had america defending south Korea and the nazis tried to obliterate us and make us speak german.

Luckily, we have the second amendment which allowed us to stop the invasion force of the nazis, who would have forced us to have abortions, and drink solent green.

See, that is how this movie is saying that America is awesome, I hope that was clear enough for you!

 

[Geekbabe]

I just thought it was a well done, beautiful movie, lol, I went "whoa" a couple times when things looked like they were flying off the screen at us

I go to the movies for the "whoa" factor

 

[Nik]

I just thought it was a well done, beautiful movie, lol, I went "whoa" a couple times when things looked like they were flying off the screen at us

I go to the movies for the "whoa" factor

That's exactly why I went! ^_^

 

[oddyager]

No no no, they are nazi communist fascists. They represent hitler and how evil he is. That was the moral of the movie, hitler sucks and america is awesome.

Its like the war of 1812 when the nazis tried to take over America. Here we had america defending south Korea and the nazis tried to obliterate us and make us speak german.

Luckily, we have the second amendment which allowed us to stop the invasion force of the nazis, who would have forced us to have abortions, and drink solent green.

See, that is how this movie is saying that America is awesome, I hope that was clear enough for you!

Now the way I see it the mercs/company clearly represented the oppressive/tyrannical monarchy of the British empire back in the 13-14th century and the Na'Vi clearly represented the Scots. I mean damn, the Brits tried breeding the Scots out and the mercs are clearly doing the same with their Avatar programs. Don't tell me those skimpy outfits the Na'Vi wear don't turn you on. And the war speech at the end, clearly shades of William Wallace.

 

[JTsyo]

Sometimes you have to say this is not right and make a stand

 

[meltdown75]

I just thought it was a well done, beautiful movie, lol, I went "whoa" a couple times when things looked like they were flying off the screen at us

I go to the movies for the "whoa" factor

i go to ATOT for my woahs

edit: and whoas too

 

[Goosemaster]

what a fun thread! Regardless of whether the OP was serious or not, the owage was hilarious throughout!

Some things I would like to add to the sub-discussions:


Quote from James Cameron on AVATAR:

“We’re telling the story of what happens when a technologically superior culture comes into a place with a technologically inferior indigenous culture and there are resources there that they want,” said Cameron. “It never ends well."- TELEGRAPH

The only thing additional over-analysis will yield is to elaborate on your mindset and not that of Cameron, as his is quite clear.

 

[Terzo]

what a fun thread! Regardless of whether the OP was serious or not, the owage was hilarious throughout!

Some things I would like to add to the sub-discussions:


Quote from James Cameron on AVATAR:

“We’re telling the story of what happens when a technologically superior culture comes into a place with a technologically inferior indigenous culture and there are resources there that they want,” said Cameron. “It never ends well."- TELEGRAPH

The only thing additional over-analysis will yield is to elaborate on your mindset and not that of Cameron, as his is quite clear.

I take issue with Mr. Cameron's statement. I haven't studied history beyond the basics in k-12 education, but most of the examples I can think of involve it ending poorly for the indigenous people, or neutrally at best, rather than for the "invading" culture.

Off the top of my head, European and US settlement of USA ends poorly for the Native Americans. Heck, European colonization of South America and Africa as well as heavy influence on China (opium, right?). When Perry visited Japan it didn't necessarily end poorly for the Japanese, but it led Japan to modernization and entering the world stage.

I think a more accurate statement would be that contact between cultures with a technological disparity will always change the status quo.

Of course, given my limited knowledge of history it's possible I'm wrong. I'm all ears if someone would care to enlighten me.

 

[destrekor]

I take issue with Mr. Cameron's statement. I haven't studied history beyond the basics in k-12 education, but most of the examples I can think of involve it ending poorly for the indigenous people, or neutrally at best, rather than for the "invading" culture.

Off the top of my head, European and US settlement of USA ends poorly for the Native Americans. Heck, European colonization of South America and Africa as well as heavy influence on China (opium, right?). When Perry visited Japan it didn't necessarily end poorly for the Japanese, but it led Japan to modernization and entering the world stage.

I think a more accurate statement would be that contact between cultures with a technological disparity will always change the status quo.

Of course, given my limited knowledge of history it's possible I'm wrong. I'm all ears if someone would care to enlighten me.

Please tell me that Native Americans are happy with what they have right now. They live in ghettos and have an absolutely terrible life. We put them there after we stole everything from them.

Cameron was speaking of it not ending well for those who are invaded. He took Avatar the other way and used people who were formally of the invading group help the surely-destined-to fail indigenous people secure victory in the end.

There are a ton of arguments that can go either way, with the outcome 100 years later looking great after a superior force invaded inferior peoples. Because sure, that happens, won't argue against that. Who is right and who is wrong is always going to be an opinion.

 

[Terzo]

That's what I was confused about; he said it never ends well but showed it going the other way in the movie.

In terms of the Avatar universe, I suppose it's a case of won the battle but there's still going to be a war.

 

[Rubycon]

When I first saw the title I thought this was going to be one of those motion sickness complaints. Cloverfield had a lot of them.

 

[destrekor]

That's what I was confused about; he said it never ends well but showed it going the other way in the movie.

In terms of the Avatar universe, I suppose it's a case of won the battle but there's still going to be a war.

precisely.

For Avatar's story, if the people of Earth want it bad enough, resistance is futile. They'll come back and deal out carnage something fierce.

It's a David vs Goliath type of story, except in real life David rarely gets any real chance of actually winning if Goliath is determined enough.
And that's where the true stories of conquer come into play, as the Davids get brutally beaten and their story turns quite sour, yet the Goliaths get to write the history and can turn the story into something that can be perceived as awesome by any neutral party. But it is always ugly for the Davids in real life.

 

[Bignate603]

There is such a thing as an illegal order from a commanding officer. Following orders to kill innocent people is still wrong.

 

[SilthDraeth]

I see your point OP, and I am ex Military. But as the guy said... Back on Earth they were fighting for their country and were honorable. Out in space they were just Mercs hired grunts doing dirty work for rich companies.

He started the movie off stating as much, which one would hope would of discouraged the type of gut reaction you had.

As for contracts, etc, Marines are not on contracts. So even if they called themselves Marines, they weren't truly Marines.

 

[Aluvus]

That's what I was confused about; he said it never ends well but showed it going the other way in the movie.

In terms of the Avatar universe, I suppose it's a case of won the battle but there's still going to be a war.

Their home was destroyed, many of their people were killed (including a decent chunk of their leadership), and they stand a real chance of facing another, much larger attack in retribution.

I would not describe that as "ending well". More like, "not ending catastrophically".

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

I actually waited to watch the movie before I commeneted on the OP... and 200-whatever posts in I'm probably not saying anything new but...

They were mercenaries not soldiers. The people who turned on the humans were part of the science part of the mission, not the security part. Jake was playing both sides for a while but hadn't updated in weeks prior to his siding with the Na'Vi and was never a part of the military side of the operation except to feed them intelligence.

In the end the 'soldiers' were being asked to commit genocide. Jake and the science crew sided with the intended victims of the genocide, militarily, when it was clear that reason and negotiation were thrown out the window in favor of erradication.

And oh by the way... it's a movie.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Made you want to throw up? Probably because you're a nationalist little cry-baby.

Jingoist is the word you are searching for.

 

[DesiPower]

YAAR - Yet Another Avatar Rant
Thought of starting a new thread, but was afraid of the ATOT wrath...

R1. Unobtanium... could have stolen the Star Trek name... would have been forgivable... invented new camera and Language for the movie and... UNOBTANIUM... really James???

R2. Takes 5 some odd years to reach there... guessing takes the same time for the ore to reach earth... can it still be viable from a long term business perspective...

R3. Why did you have to destroy the tree house... could have had the "big war" to save the tree house... I hate you James.

R4. Why kill so all the main good guy characters... couldnt they all have lived happily ever after???

R5. So after White Guilt what comes next?? Human Guilt??? Freakin Hollywood Koolies...

 

[alkemyst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKQ_2ku2ytg

 

[DesiPower]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKQ_2ku2ytg

Snippet pzl - youtube@work = blocked

 

[zinfamous]

SPOILERS

Let me say the movie looked AMAZING and the special effects were mind blowing. But, about half? way into the movie, I started to want to throw up:
The main characters of the movie do a complete 180 and started MURDERING their fellow soldiers and American comrades.
I understand if you do not believe in what your government is doing - and if you believe this strongly enough you can get a dishonorable discharge from the military - but to literally a) steal American weapons and then b) use them to kill those Americans you fought side by side with and are contracted under law with to serve fully and honorably just made me sick.

When that girl helicopter pilot turned her American helicopter around and started firing at her superiors, my stomach started turning. I felt no sympathy at all when she got blown up.
Treason is arguably the WORST crime a person can commit. In fact, it is the only crime documented in the US constitution. If she wants to turn her helicopter back, refuse to fight, and get sent to prison for disobeying the law, then she can - that is her only right.


Another thing that bothered me was the fact that the natives would have gotten stomped on if 1) they did not use any of the "Sky Peoples"'s weapons or 2) they hadn't gotten extremely fortunate (those explosives were seconds from being dropped before a stolen grenade stopped it - and then the second grenade that blew the hole).

I'm not a fan of any movie that shows the American military being defeated.

Notes:
I know there are threads on the movie, but I want this thread to be specifically about this part of the movie and also about Americans being defeated in movies in general.
I am contracted in the Army ROTC.

if it makes you feel any better, the mercenaries in Avatar (not soldiers), were ROTC, iirc.

probably why they lost, in the end.

 

[geno]

if it makes you feel any better, the mercenaries in Avatar (not soldiers), were ROTC, iirc.

probably why they lost, in the end.

weflyhigh, thank you for the best, most absolutely laughable thread I've seen in ages. This stuff is golden, please keep it up. :thumbsup:

 

[mmntech]

if it makes you feel any better, the mercenaries in Avatar (not soldiers), were ROTC, iirc.

probably why they lost, in the end.

That's right, the movie points this out right in the first 10 minutes. They were hired by a corporation, so it's not treason. The main character (blanking on his name) is working for the science team, not the mercs. I don't think the movie ever specifically says they're American. It's obviously implied. The movie does have strong political themes though. Iraq is an obvious one.

I guess if they really wanted to beat the Na'vi, they should have sent Canada in to fight for them. A country that can win wars. The US military excels at that.