News AUKUS - new Australia/UK/US alliance

[Jaskalas]

It will take more than a few subs to retain control of the ocean.
For every expensive toy we build, there will be a dozen kamikaze sub drones ready to blow holes into them.

 

[pmv]

Canada should join. Then they could call it CAUKUS. Just sounds so ominous.

Clearly France had to be excluded or it would be FAUKUS, which sounds all kinds of wrong. Or get Russia in and end up with RAUKUS?

 

[itsmydamnation]

pretty big news , US SSN's in 2030's for Australia and standardised systems going forward between aukus boats with AU and UK operating the same boats.

thats an interesting change for the UK boats.

 

[rommelrommel]

Too bad Canada is cheap and dumb. We’re gonna keep operating our useless UK cast off subs and hoping our domestic ship building doesn’t end up 500% over budget as usual.

 

[eelw]

Too bad Canada is cheap and dumb. We’re gonna keep operating our useless UK cast off subs and hoping our domestic ship building doesn’t end up 500% over budget as usual.

We have no need to be involved in South Pacific matters. Not like we have sub designs to offer.

 

[rommelrommel]

We have no need to be involved in South Pacific matters. Not like we have sub designs to offer.

You don’t think Canada could use a non-garbage submarine fleet of reasonable size?

 

[Jaskalas]

You don’t think Canada could use a non-garbage submarine fleet of reasonable size?

I'll leave it up to their gov / military to decide what tools are in their own best interests.
No need to second guess that.

 

[eelw]

You don’t think Canada could use a non-garbage submarine fleet of reasonable size?

This isn’t about getting any random country to have nuclear subs. This is about modernizing Australia’s fleet to watch China in the South Pacific.

 

[KB]

pretty big news , US SSN's in 2030's for Australia and standardised systems going forward between aukus boats with AU and UK operating the same boats.

thats an interesting change for the UK boats.

Supplying subs in the 2030s is a bit late. China will have built islands up to the Australian border by then.

 

[brycejones]

Supplying subs in the 2030s is a bit late. China will have built islands up to the Australian border by then.

Australia should build a wall then!

 

[IronWing]

Supplying subs in the 2030s is a bit late. China will have built islands up to the Australian border by then.

Can't hide a sub if there's no ocean to hide it in.

 

[rommelrommel]

I'll leave it up to their gov / military to decide what tools are in their own best interests.
No need to second guess that.

You are obviously seriously unfamiliar with Canadian military procurement.

 

[KMFJD]

You don’t think Canada could use a non-garbage submarine fleet of reasonable size?

what for?

 

[eelw]

what for?

Indeed. Like sure we need to upgrade NORAD. Increase military spending to meet 2% NATO responsibility. But being beside the US is all the protection we need.

 

[hal2kilo]

pretty big news , US SSN's in 2030's for Australia and standardised systems going forward between aukus boats with AU and UK operating the same boats.

thats an interesting change for the UK boats.

Your Vanguards ( not sure if any are actually in service) and previous Strategic submarines used US Fire Control, Launcher systems and missiles per the Polaris agreement. When they ever get going on the new subs, it will also use the US hardware. I retired in 2019, so I'm not sure where the program is at now.

 

[pcgeek11]

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[itsmydamnation]

Your Vanguards ( not sure if any are actually in service) and previous Strategic submarines used US Fire Control, Launcher systems and missiles per the Polaris agreement. When they ever get going on the new subs, it will also use the US hardware. I retired in 2019, so I'm not sure where the program is at now.

not talking the SSBN's but the SSN's. Yeah the SSBN's already had lots of commonality for minuteman, but the astute(SSN) , vanguard(SSBN) and to be dreadnaught (SSBN) class all still have nots of non US systems like combat management , sensors and processing , their torpedo's etc. I might be reading to much into the statement but im expecting more commonality with US systems on these aukus boats.

 

[rommelrommel]

what for?

Indeed. Like sure we need to upgrade NORAD. Increase military spending to meet 2% NATO responsibility. But being beside the US is all the protection we need.

Uh, maybe patrolling the arctic and the longest coastline in the world?

A reasonable submarine fleet could be part of meeting NATO commitments.

 

[hal2kilo]

not talking the SSBN's but the SSN's. Yeah the SSBN's already had lots of commonality for minuteman, but the astute(SSN) , vanguard(SSBN) and to be dreadnaught (SSBN) class all still have nots of non US systems like combat management , sensors and processing , their torpedo's etc. I might be reading to much into the statement but im expecting more commonality with US systems on these aukus boats.

If they are smart they will stick with the US power plant. Sorry, Vanguard.

 

[itsmydamnation]

If they are smart they will stick with the US power plant. Sorry, Vanguard.

i thought the pwr3 of the dreadnaught was effectively the latest US design , wiki seems to agree

Rolls-Royce PWR - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

so i take this as US design but UK implementation /build

 

[hal2kilo]

i thought the pwr3 of the dreadnaught was effectively the latest US design , wiki seems to agree

Rolls-Royce PWR - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

so i take this as US design but UK implementation /build

Interesting. Out of the loop. Let's just say the US designs are very robust, inherently safe (convection cooling) and last an amazing amount of time with at least one refueling of course. I'm just speculating that the UK doesn't want to expend the amount of money it cost to refuel their reactors, thus the seemingly early, compared to US, retirement of the Vanguards. By the way, that end of the boat is not really in my wheelhouse, but, you hear things after decades in that specific business.

 

[KMFJD]

AUKUS risks are piling up. Australia must prepare to build French SSNs instead | The Strategist

Australia should start planning for acquisition of at least 12 submarines of the French Suffren design. The current AUKUS plan for eight nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs) has always been flawed, and now its risks are ...

www.aspistrategist.org.au

lmfao, what a joke

pay penalty to weasel out of french contract to get American subs only to not get those subs and now have to get the French subs again?

 

[itsmydamnation]

AUKUS risks are piling up. Australia must prepare to build French SSNs instead | The Strategist

Australia should start planning for acquisition of at least 12 submarines of the French Suffren design. The current AUKUS plan for eight nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs) has always been flawed, and now its risks are ...

www.aspistrategist.org.au

lmfao, what a joke

pay penalty to weasel out of french contract to get American subs only to not get those subs and now have to get the French subs again?

I think we (Australia) will fuck this up but that guys option is cooked. His thoughts around detection are using the submarines wrong , which is why I come back to us as Australia fucking this up.

I actually agree 12 subs are the way to go. But we should just bite the bullet and roll 12 dreadnought. Would make it the 5 boat in the class so should be in a good place build wise.

Can spend the next 10 years from now designing non ballistic things to put in the tubs like UAV/drones. carousel to hold large amounts of NSM. A long arse booster for NSM etc. etc.

 

[KMFJD]

I think we (Australia) will fuck this up but that guys option is cooked. His thoughts around detection are using the submarines wrong , which is why I come back to us as Australia fucking this up.

I actually agree 12 subs are the way to go. But we should just bite the bullet and roll 12 dreadnought. Would make it the 5 boat in the class so should be in a good place build wise.

Can spend the next 10 years from now designing non ballistic things to put in the tubs like UAV/drones. carousel to hold large amounts of NSM. A long arse booster for NSM etc. etc.

Doesn't Australia have issues getting enough people to join the navy as it is?

 

[itsmydamnation]

Doesn't Australia have issues getting enough people to join the navy as it is?

Australia's far bigger problem in defence is sustainment.

We want nuclear subs because of the geo-political outlook

Having a continuous sub building program fixes sustainment and price per unit which are some of the navys biggest problems. Yes it doesn't help crewing , the easy fix for that is just to offer pathways for US Navy personal to join Australian Navy , we already do it for UK personal. With the US begin hell bent on screwing its own people for profit we should look pretty attractive .