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News AUKUS - new Australia/UK/US alliance

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
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US and UK are helping Australia to get nuclear powered (NOT nuclear armed) submarines. Start of a wider alliance, apparently.

The French are pissed because Australia are cancelling a deal for diesel submarines.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,941
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People get peeved over the weirdest things ......

France was negotiating a deal with Australia to build these subs for them. This deal kills France's . There is a ton of money and well-paying jobs in weapon construction.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
22,920
25,036
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40 billions in fact

"This brutal, unilateral and unpredictable decision reminds me a lot of what Mr Trump used to do," Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian told france info radio. "I am angry and bitter. This isn't done between allies."
-In 2016, Australia had selected French shipbuilder Naval Group to build a new submarine fleet worth $40 billion to replace its more than two-decades-old Collins submarines.
-Just two weeks ago, the Australian defence and foreign ministers had reconfirmed the deal to France, and French President Emmanuel Macron lauded decades of future cooperation when hosting Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison in June.

New Zealand re-affirmed it's position on not allowing any nuclear powered vessels in it's territory

"New Zealand's position in relation to the prohibition of nuclear-powered vessels in our waters remains unchanged," Ardern said in a statement

 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
12,381
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Are we talking boomers, attack subs, a mix of both in the deal? I can see where as a compromise, the nuke powered subs would be used for force projection in the region and diesel powered ones used for home defense that would include NZ and their ban on nuclear powered vessels as a way to placate France, the EU and NZ. Or was this a plain 'ol profit making power grab by the USA/AUS/GB group? It's business after all.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
18,222
5,435
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US and UK are helping Australia to get nuclear powered (NOT nuclear armed) submarines. Start of a wider alliance, apparently.

The French are pissed because Australia are cancelling a deal for diesel submarines.
Wonder who's going to be building these, EB, Groton, or I think it's now Northrup Grumman at Newport News.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
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"Nuclear-propelled submarines in this context have longer range, are quicker and are harder to detect. "
It makes sense they picked nuclear subs, but what they should have mentioned was all the carbon savings from going Nuclear compared to diesel. The Europeans love going green and would have less to complain about if it was all about going green
 
Dec 10, 2005
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"Nuclear-propelled submarines in this context have longer range, are quicker and are harder to detect. "
It makes sense they picked nuclear subs, but what they should have mentioned was all the carbon savings from going Nuclear compared to diesel. The Europeans love going green and would have less to complain about if it was all about going green
France's gripe likely centers around Australia buying into our state-sponsored jobs program instead of France's state-sponsored jobs program.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
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AHEM
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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I think this agreement is a good idea for the US. It's not the money. It's that we need to check Chinese force projection into the South China Sea, and Australia can't do that with diesel powered subs.

I get that France is pissed over losing the money, but they'll get over it. Our and France's strategic interests are better served by this.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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The larger picture is good, another western axis to combat the rise of regimes.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,710
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Pfffttt.... That's like a Ford dealer being ticked off that a company bought Chevies for their fleet.
Correction, the Yugo dealership mad a company cancelled and bought Tesla's instead.

Small diesel subs? WWII tech? Get the F out of here France with that bullshit. Aussie Navy doesn't want to get killed.

Develop better subs, and actually deliver them on time, if you want to play in the market.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
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itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
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I very much doubt they will be American Subs. the American SSN's , seawolf , Virginia , LA class are all way to big with way to large a crew requirement. Far more likely to be a Astute Class Hull/ drive train / reactor with mostly American weapons, fire control and sensors. would lose the VLS tubes but that seems a reasonable compromise.

Also expect the Large amount of the subs construction to be done in OZ. American sub yards are full , UK's isn't as they are coming to the end of build for Astute, So there is an ideal opportunity to build the first hull in the UK while skilling up AUS engineers while at the same time building out the naval base assets needed to support SSN's at Australia's two main fleet bases. On top of that it would bridge a large amount of the time gap between the last astute and the next gen gen of UK SSN being built, not losing skills and workforce is very important.

If this really is a Force projection to the China Sea. US/AUS probably want to be able to station subs in Darwin as well.

In tems of the now cancelled "Attack" class sub, so far its been 5 years and 2 billion dollars and not much to show for it. in all honesty the wrong bid one that tender , mostly because the Japanese completely fucked it up.

This video here does a great job of summing up ( over a year ago) what a basket case the Attack class project was.
 
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