News AUKUS - new Australia/UK/US alliance

[Bitek]

The media is framing this development at a loss for Biden on re-engagement with allies and not as a win for Biden on something that even his critics applaud. They are so eager to write "Biden stumbles" stories that they've lost the plot.

Agreed. Super stupid.

We had no deal for subs (where was Trump?)
Now we have a multi-billion deal
Our alliance and joint military power is better off on net
Screw France's tears. They didn't deliver. They opened this door.

If it was Trump, the media would be drooling over his cutthroat business and deal making skills.

But it's Biden, so whah whah France...

 

[Ajay]

Screw France's tears. They didn't deliver. They opened this door.

Well, I wouldn't say 'screw them'. They are our friends - our oldest friend in fact. That said, they will get over after they protest for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if we come up with some face saving sweet heart deal for them in the near future. Geopolitics - messy business that.

 

[Bitek]

Well, I wouldn't say 'screw them'. They are our friends - our oldest friend in fact. That said, they will get over after they protest for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if we come up with some face saving sweet heart deal for them in the near future. Geopolitics - messy business that.

Agreed, but I'm tired of the whining from our end about it. Everything is negative.

 

[Ajay]

Agreed, but I'm tired of the whining from our end about it. Everything is negative.

The MSM need a kick in the butt for sure. They can't handled the loss of the former president's incessant stirring up of controversy, which did have the side effect of earning them lots of eyeballs. Their corporate masters cannot handle having a low drama, steady hand at the wheel. It's perverse.

 

[Zorba]

Pfffttt.... That's like a Ford dealer being ticked off that a company bought Chevies for their fleet.

Let's just throw a fit next time an airline cancels a Boeing order and bus Airbus instead.

 

[kage69]

Well, I wouldn't say 'screw them'. They are our friends - our oldest friend in fact. That said, they will get over after they protest for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if we come up with some face saving sweet heart deal for them in the near future. Geopolitics - messy business that.

I think the French need to overhaul their work culture a bit if they want to entertain foreign contracts with deadlines. They are definitely our friends, but when time is a priority you can't blame the customer for not wanting to shut down development for a whole month every summer. The Aussies are watching the clock, keeping an eye on current day provocations and bullying by the PLAN, meanwhile their French counterparts balk at the idea of lunch taking less than an hour. It just wasn't going to work at their pace, mid 2030s is too long and would mean the Collins boats would need upgrades in order to make it until the French boats arrive.

Frum had a good article on it, I like the way he ended it. 'We had a spat, our sulking friends cancelled on us, but they still wanted to make sure we're fed.'

 

[MichaelMay]

It's a response to the EU suggestion. Of course it is.

 

[shortylickens]

Since Biden is in office I promise somebody in Briton will complain they are getting a raw deal and ask to be removed from the Alliance, which will cause problems for 6 straight years and end up fucking over the common man.

 

[sandorski]

Canada should join. Then they could call it CAUKUS. Just sounds so ominous.

 

[rommelrommel]

What wasn't discussed is why the US wasn't in the initial bidding process. Maybe too expensive and our tech not fit for purpose?

The US naval yards have no spare capacity, in fact there is a significant capacity shortage. In service US types are big, expensive, and have never been exported.

 

[cytg111]

It's a response to the EU suggestion. Of course it is.

What?

 

[cytg111]

Important to note that France still benefits from Aussie "Virginias" (Ipswitch class?) helping keep the peace.

Lets not forget this ...

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

The were soooo close ....AUSUK

 

[HomerJS]

What happened to all the people claiming Biden is soft on China?

Cat got your tongues, again??

 

[Ajay]

I think the French need to overhaul their work culture a bit if they want to entertain foreign contracts with deadlines. They are definitely our friends, but when time is a priority you can't blame the customer for not wanting to shut down development for a whole month every summer. The Aussies are watching the clock, keeping an eye on current day provocations and bullying by the PLAN, meanwhile their French counterparts balk at the idea of lunch taking less than an hour. It just wasn't going to work at their pace, mid 2030s is too long and would mean the Collins boats would need upgrades in order to make it until the French boats arrive.

Frum had a good article on it, I like the way he ended it. 'We had a spat, our sulking friends cancelled on us, but they still wanted to make sure we're fed.'

If the French want one month vacations (who wouldn't??) and hour lunch breaks; I don't have a problem with that. But, in that case, the obvious solutions seems to be that they have to become more efficient - that, or add a second shift. The German's have pretty much figured out how to get work done while having a high quality of life. The only thing wrong with the french is that they are french and stubborn is their middle name

 

[kage69]

What happened to all the people claiming Biden is soft on China?

Cat got your tongues, again??

I'd like to know about the sudden surge of empathy for French wallets by the freedom fries crowd. Were they similarly incensed when France cancelled the delivery of the Mistral ships after Putin invaded Crimea? Why is OK for France to cancel a contract but when Australia does it bricks are shat?

Given how Beijing is acting, this sounds like Biden did the right thing again. Sorry magats.

 

[kage69]

If the French want one month vacations (who wouldn't??) and hour lunch breaks; I don't have a problem with that.

You probably would if you were an Australian. Your tax dollars would be supporting private English school fees for Aussie staff family living in France, not to mention the costly upgrades need for the Collins boats to make them last until the French ones arrive.

Btw a French lunch break is more like 2 hours.

But, in that case, the obvious solutions seems to be that they have to become more efficient - that, or add a second shift. The German's have pretty much figured out how to get work done while having a high quality of life. The only thing wrong with the french is that they are french and stubborn is their middle name

It's a culture issue, why certain parties within both the French and Australian teams tried to make it work with workshops and seminars apparently. I'm sure there would be various cultural differences that would affect development if the Aussies were working with the Germans, Japanese, Swedes, whomever, I'm just not so sure it would translate into the project being that delayed. There is a different work ethic involved, no offense mes amis. I'd take all of August off too if I could.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I'd like to know about the sudden surge of empathy for French wallets by the freedom fries crowd.

Dude, that's like the easiest issue of all. Which letter was after the President's name back then? Which is now?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

And if this EXACT same deal had been done a year ago, it would have been the greatest most fantastically super perfect deal ever made. Know why?

 

[woolfe9998]

Well, I wouldn't say 'screw them'. They are our friends - our oldest friend in fact. That said, they will get over after they protest for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if we come up with some face saving sweet heart deal for them in the near future. Geopolitics - messy business that.

Yes, and don't forget there is a national election coming up next April in France. Macron has to posture over this to project French nationalism in advance of said election. I suspect the outrage will calm considerably after the election.

 

[Ajay]

Btw a French lunch break is more like 2 hours.

Geez, that's like Spain!

There is a different work ethic involved, no offense mes amis

Yes, certainly in some industries. I used to collaborate with a french software engineer in a former job, his turn-around time was excellent. Maybe it's just in heavy industry, which is mostly likely unionized in France. French unions are not like American unions (which have, for the most part, evolved with the times).

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Cool pic:

 

[hal2kilo]

The US naval yards have no spare capacity, in fact there is a significant capacity shortage. In service US types are big, expensive, and have never been exported.

US Naval yards are used for upkeep of vessels produced by private shipyards. The kicker is, there are very few private yards certified for nuclear work. Electric Boat (General Dynamics div) and now (been some major consolidations in shipbuilding) Huntington Ingalls Industries in Newport News.

 

[Vic]

Is there a reason why even the mainstream media is presenting this as some kind of Biden failure when it's actually a big win for the US and a big middle finger at China? Yet all we hear is boohoo France? When France was totally screwing over the Aussies? CNN is headlining this as a "Even Biden caught off-guard," when it seems quite clear that only France was caught off-guard (and is butthurt).

 

[rommelrommel]

US Naval yards are used for upkeep of vessels produced by private shipyards. The kicker is, there are very few private yards certified for nuclear work. Electric Boat (General Dynamics div) and now (been some major consolidations in shipbuilding) Huntington Ingalls Industries in Newport News.

Yeah, I meant US naval yards as in the yards in the US that are capable of such work.