Attorney defends trooper in Okla. ambulance stop

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Why does it seem more and more Police are on real headtrips??
This is just amazing......it`s also very scary to think we have Police who have no clue or cannot put one plus one together.........

What I fiund interesting is the Ambulance dude it appears got away with resisiting arrest from an over zealous Cop.

Don`t get me wrong I am not advocating resisting arrest. Just amzing if you ask me!!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...s/us_ambulance_stopped

OKLAHOMA CITY ? Bothered that an ambulance driver failed to yield to him as he raced to provide backup on a call ? and angered further when he thought the driver flipped him an obscene gesture ? state Trooper Daniel Martin decided to stop the ambulance and give the driver a piece of his mind.

What Martin didn't know then, his lawyer said Monday, was that there was a patient in the back of the ambulance.

"He's not this ogre, this depriver of people's rights," the trooper's attorney, Gary James, said. "He's a good man."

Since a cell phone video of the dispute taken by the patient's son was released last month, Martin has faced criticism and has been placed on paid leave pending an investigation. The patient, Stella Davis of Boley, was eventually treated and released from the hospital, but relatives and others have questioned why the ambulance was stopped and pushed for answers.

After the trooper stopped the vehicle, a paramedic jumped from the back and demanded that Martin talk to him instead of the driver, according to a longer video, taken by the dashboard camera in Martin's cruiser, that authorities released over the weekend.

"You get back in the ambulance, I'm talking to the driver," Martin said.

"I'm in charge of this unit, sir," the paramedic tells Martin, an Iraq war veteran who returned from the Middle East about a month before the May 24 incident in Paden, 40 miles east of Oklahoma City.

Martin tells the driver he's going to give him a ticket for failure to yield.

"I ain't going to be putting up with that (expletive)," Martin said. "You understand me?"

Then the paramedic, Maurice White Jr., said: "And I won't put up with you talking to my driver like that."

The situation escalates, with White repeatedly telling Martin he has a patient that he wants to take to the hospital, and Martin telling him to get back in the ambulance. They soon begin scuffling on the side of the road as Martin attempts to arrest White, at one point grabbing him by the throat, video shows.

Martin's attorney said the trooper ? whom he described as a decorated sailor and a 15-year law enforcement veteran ? didn't realize there was a patient in the ambulance until well after the situation had intensified. He either didn't hear it or it didn't register, he said.

Martin was trying to make a legitimate traffic stop, James said, when White became hostile, refused to comply with the patrolman's orders and caused the situation to spiral out of control.

James said the law allows an officer to pull over an ambulance if its emergency lights and sirens aren't running, as was the case in this incident.

Thompson Gouge, spokesman for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, which employs White as a paramedic, said the use of lights and sirens depends on the patient's medical situation. Sometimes the lights and sirens often won't be used when patients are transported to the hospital in order to keep them calm.

White's attorney, Richard O'Carroll, said the veteran paramedic was trying to protect his patient and that the trooper had no reason to stop the ambulance, let alone try and arrest White. The trooper's arms were bruised when White resisted arrest, James said.
"If the guy was bruised, it didn't make any difference," O'Carroll said. "He ought not to stop ambulance drivers for hurting his feelings."
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
All parties could have acted better in this scenario, but from my perspective as a private citizen, the #1 characteristic of a good cop is good judgment. Everything else (smarts, training, physical abilities etc etc) is secondary. He's out there in stressful situations, making decisions that can impact people's lives. From the video and story, it would appear this cop does not have good judgment, that's not someone I'd want to have out there. A little calm and common sense could have defused the situation before it got ugly, he should be removed from his job.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,363
1,222
126
The guy was in such a hurry to answer a back up call, but he had time to make a traffic stop on the way. I'd be pissed if I was the cop waiting on him to back me up.

Me: "Need backup"
Me "Where is my backup?"
Them: "He had to pull an ambulance over first."
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: brandonbull
The guy was in such a hurry to answer a back up call, but he had time to make a traffic stop on the way. I'd be pissed if I was the cop waiting on him to back me up.

Me: "Need backup"
Me "Where is my backup?"
Them: "He had to pull an ambulance over first."
Win.

However, among hundreds of thousands of cops in the US, we hear about the bad ones. The availability heuristic strikes again.

 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: brandonbull
The guy was in such a hurry to answer a back up call, but he had time to make a traffic stop on the way. I'd be pissed if I was the cop waiting on him to back me up.

Me: "Need backup"
Me "Where is my backup?"
Them: "He had to pull an ambulance over first."

Wasn't the "backup" picking up his wife?
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: brandonbull
The guy was in such a hurry to answer a back up call, but he had time to make a traffic stop on the way. I'd be pissed if I was the cop waiting on him to back me up.

Me: "Need backup"
Me "Where is my backup?"
Them: "He had to pull an ambulance over first."
Win.

However, among hundreds of thousands of cops in the US, we hear about the bad ones. The availability heuristic strikes again.

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

Thumbs up for both of you!
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: brandonbull
The guy was in such a hurry to answer a back up call, but he had time to make a traffic stop on the way. I'd be pissed if I was the cop waiting on him to back me up.

Me: "Need backup"
Me "Where is my backup?"
Them: "He had to pull an ambulance over first."
Win.

However, among hundreds of thousands of cops in the US, we hear about the bad ones. The availability heuristic strikes again.

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

Thumbs up for both of you!

I guess maybe ambulances need one of those "How am I driving? Concerns or Compliments, call 555-999-8888" bumper stickers on back.

 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: brandonbull
The guy was in such a hurry to answer a back up call, but he had time to make a traffic stop on the way. I'd be pissed if I was the cop waiting on him to back me up.

Me: "Need backup"
Me "Where is my backup?"
Them: "He had to pull an ambulance over first."

No kidding, this is an open and shut case. That officer should feel lucky he's ONLY on paid administrative leave, or whatever lame-ass slap on the wrists he received. Perhaps next time, he'll keep his raging ego in check.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: brandonbull
The guy was in such a hurry to answer a back up call, but he had time to make a traffic stop on the way. I'd be pissed if I was the cop waiting on him to back me up.

Me: "Need backup"
Me "Where is my backup?"
Them: "He had to pull an ambulance over first."

No kidding, this is an open and shut case. That officer should feel lucky he's ONLY on paid administrative leave, or whatever lame-ass slap on the wrists he received. Perhaps next time, he'll keep his raging ego in check.

Maybe the Ambulance driver and medic should have kept theirs in check too. Everyone seems at fault in this one, but fuck it lets blame the cop.
the driver of the ambulance was clearly running without lights on. He was breaking the law. Police officer saw someone breaking the law, and acted. Could he have acted better, sure, could the guys in the ambulance acted better, most definately. They tried to take control of the situation, as a police officer, you must always be the one in control.
Though if you watch the un-edited video, you will see a clearer picture of the events, where as the edited video the news outlets show, make it look like the officer just up and grabs the black guy by the neck for no reason, the unedited shows the black guy resisting and fighting.
 

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
7,253
1
0
The unedited video (linked in another AT thread somewhere, maybe in OT) shows:

- the ambulance was not running with emergency lights on. But there is no allegation that the ambulance was speeding.

- the cop came up behind the ambulance very quickly, and there was a curve in the road. I think it is very possible that the ambulance driver did not see the cop until he was right behind them. An EMT posted in that other thread that it is possible with all the equipment in the ambulance, the driver may not have been able to hear the siren.

- I think it is debatable whether the ambulance driver could have safely pulled over immediately because there was another car in the way. Once the ambulance passed that car, it pulled over.

- I couldn't tell if the ambulance driver flipped off the cop.

- the cop did pass the ambulance and proceeded to his destination. When he got there (maybe a minute or two later), he found out he wasn't needed. Then he turned around, and went back to chase the ambulance.

- As soon as the cop approached the ambulance, he immediately began shouting, and then swearing. He was not in control of himself. IMO, he was using the Failure to Yield charge as an excuse to get back at the ambulance driver for giving him the finger.

- the EMT told the cop SEVERAL TIMES that he had a patient and was on the way to the hospital. That came up pretty early in the conversation.

- the EMT did not "fight." He did put his hand up although I couldn't really tell from the video what his intention was. The cop was very close to him. The cop then grabbed his arm and things went downhill from there.

- IMO The cop is the one who escalated the confrontation initially and bears the most fault for the incident. He acted very unprofessionally from the very start.

Once he found out there was a patient on the way to the hospital, why did he insist on detaining them further? Did he think the ambulance was going to run for the state line?
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
The situation escalates, with White repeatedly telling Martin he has a patient that he wants to take to the hospital, and Martin telling him to get back in the ambulance. They soon begin scuffling on the side of the road as Martin attempts to arrest White, at one point grabbing him by the throat, video shows.

Cop is a fucking moron, the patient's life comes first before the cop's ego.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: brandonbull
The guy was in such a hurry to answer a back up call, but he had time to make a traffic stop on the way. I'd be pissed if I was the cop waiting on him to back me up.

Me: "Need backup"
Me "Where is my backup?"
Them: "He had to pull an ambulance over first."

No kidding, this is an open and shut case. That officer should feel lucky he's ONLY on paid administrative leave, or whatever lame-ass slap on the wrists he received. Perhaps next time, he'll keep his raging ego in check.

Maybe the Ambulance driver and medic should have kept theirs in check too. Everyone seems at fault in this one, but fuck it lets blame the cop.
the driver of the ambulance was clearly running without lights on. He was breaking the law. Police officer saw someone breaking the law, and acted. Could he have acted better, sure, could the guys in the ambulance acted better, most definately. They tried to take control of the situation, as a police officer, you must always be the one in control.
Though if you watch the un-edited video, you will see a clearer picture of the events, where as the edited video the news outlets show, make it look like the officer just up and grabs the black guy by the neck for no reason, the unedited shows the black guy resisting and fighting.

Yup, the cop started it, escalated it and then was such a raging fuckup that he didn't understand there was a patient inside the ambulance despite being told a bazillion f'ing times. Damn straight. Glad you agree.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: brandonbull
The guy was in such a hurry to answer a back up call, but he had time to make a traffic stop on the way. I'd be pissed if I was the cop waiting on him to back me up.

Me: "Need backup"
Me "Where is my backup?"
Them: "He had to pull an ambulance over first."

No kidding, this is an open and shut case. That officer should feel lucky he's ONLY on paid administrative leave, or whatever lame-ass slap on the wrists he received. Perhaps next time, he'll keep his raging ego in check.

Maybe the Ambulance driver and medic should have kept theirs in check too. Everyone seems at fault in this one, but fuck it lets blame the cop.
the driver of the ambulance was clearly running without lights on. He was breaking the law. Police officer saw someone breaking the law, and acted. Could he have acted better, sure, could the guys in the ambulance acted better, most definately. They tried to take control of the situation, as a police officer, you must always be the one in control.
Though if you watch the un-edited video, you will see a clearer picture of the events, where as the edited video the news outlets show, make it look like the officer just up and grabs the black guy by the neck for no reason, the unedited shows the black guy resisting and fighting.

you realize that the only thing the ambulance did wrong was to pull over slowly right, which certainly is not a major issue and definitely not worth the response that it received
 

SunSamurai

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2005
3,914
0
0
Maybe if the cop tazed the patient in the back many of you would be ok with this? But the patient would have to be 72 and "asking for it"!
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: brandonbull
The guy was in such a hurry to answer a back up call, but he had time to make a traffic stop on the way. I'd be pissed if I was the cop waiting on him to back me up.

Me: "Need backup"
Me "Where is my backup?"
Them: "He had to pull an ambulance over first."

No kidding, this is an open and shut case. That officer should feel lucky he's ONLY on paid administrative leave, or whatever lame-ass slap on the wrists he received. Perhaps next time, he'll keep his raging ego in check.

Maybe the Ambulance driver and medic should have kept theirs in check too. Everyone seems at fault in this one, but fuck it lets blame the cop.
the driver of the ambulance was clearly running without lights on. He was breaking the law. --- He was NOT breaking the Law!!


Police officer saw someone breaking the law, and acted. Could he have acted better, sure, could the guys in the ambulance acted better, most definately. They tried to take control of the situation, as a police officer, you must always be the one in control.
Though if you watch the un-edited video, you will see a clearer picture of the events, where as the edited video the news outlets show, make it look like the officer just up and grabs the black guy by the neck for no reason, the unedited shows the black guy resisting and fighting.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
That cop is lucky the patient didn't die.

Yep, and the ambulance driver is lucky he didn't cause an accident by cutting the officer off like he did... or if there would have been a life threating emergency the officer was going to...

IMO people just need to think instead of letting their knee go off. Yes, there are bad cops but seriously - do you really need to get all worked up all the time?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
An ambulance carrying a patient has legal right-of-way (read: doesn't have to yield) over any cop regardless of his emergency. Cop was a tool and should have known that if he'd ever been in a battle in his life.

Prediction: cop won't lose his job (has better union), but all charges will be dropped against the EMT. Tomorrow, you all will forget about this.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
cops are unstable. I just try and avoid them as much as possible and in LA thats pretty easy :)
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
That cop is lucky the patient didn't die.

Yep, and the ambulance driver is lucky he didn't cause an accident by cutting the officer off like he did... or if there would have been a life threating emergency the officer was going to...

IMO people just need to think instead of letting their knee go off. Yes, there are bad cops but seriously - do you really need to get all worked up all the time?

IMO, people need to watch the video before they put their foot in their mouth.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: SirStev0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
That cop is lucky the patient didn't die.

Yep, and the ambulance driver is lucky he didn't cause an accident by cutting the officer off like he did... or if there would have been a life threating emergency the officer was going to...

IMO people just need to think instead of letting their knee go off. Yes, there are bad cops but seriously - do you really need to get all worked up all the time?

IMO, people need to watch the video before they put their foot in their mouth.

What part of my post do you take issue with?
 

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
7,253
1
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
That cop is lucky the patient didn't die.

Yep, and the ambulance driver is lucky he didn't cause an accident by cutting the officer off like he did... or if there would have been a life threating emergency the officer was going to...

IMO people just need to think instead of letting their knee go off. Yes, there are bad cops but seriously - do you really need to get all worked up all the time?

You didn't watch the dashcam video at all, did you? The ambulance driver didn't cut off the officer, and its debatable as to whether he could have pulled over onto the shoulder any sooner than he did. I don't think he blocked the cop's way for more than 10 seconds total, if that much. I can't re-watch the video right now, but that's what I recall.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
That cop is lucky the patient didn't die.

Yep, and the ambulance driver is lucky he didn't cause an accident by cutting the officer off like he did... or if there would have been a life threating emergency the officer was going to...

IMO people just need to think instead of letting their knee go off. Yes, there are bad cops but seriously - do you really need to get all worked up all the time?

Hey CADsortaGUY you still president of the Fraternal Order of Cops???
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: tk149
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
That cop is lucky the patient didn't die.

Yep, and the ambulance driver is lucky he didn't cause an accident by cutting the officer off like he did... or if there would have been a life threating emergency the officer was going to...

IMO people just need to think instead of letting their knee go off. Yes, there are bad cops but seriously - do you really need to get all worked up all the time?

You didn't watch the dashcam video at all, did you? The ambulance driver didn't cut off the officer, and its debatable as to whether he could have pulled over onto the shoulder any sooner than he did. I don't think he blocked the cop's way for more than 10 seconds total, if that much. I can't re-watch the video right now, but that's what I recall.

Sorry - not "cut off" - rather didn't get the F out of the way. Is "blocked his way" better for you...:roll:

Anyway - changing the wording doesn't change my post. Too many knees went atwitchin'. Par for the course here on AT.