What kind of piece of shit, after centuries of racial victimization of blacks, pretends that he's the victim?
What kind of piece of shit, after centuries of racial victimization of blacks, pretends that he's the victim?
Andrew1990
Banned
- Mar 8, 2008
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Actually my Great grandfather lived in Germany and owned part of the black forest. Our family has never owned a slave.
I never did anything to blacks. My family never did anything to blacks. Get over the "victimization of blacks" horseshit. That is last-century crap.
After your generation dies off, it will be a bunch of white-kids that see blacks as the same, and black-kids that see whites as the same. No more white-guilt. No more racism.
Ocguy: I never did anything to blacks. My family never did anything to blacks. Get over the "victimization of blacks" horseshit. That is last-century crap.
M: Fool listen to your self. You are so stuck in what you claim is last century you whine about your innocence.
O: After your generation dies off, it will be a bunch of white-kids that see blacks as the same, and black-kids that see whites as the same. No more white-guilt. No more racism.
M: You are immature and self-centered. You don't know the difference between guilt and responsibility. You, in your need for innocence, are blind to the damage racism has done to black society. You can't man up to the fact that your guilt has nothing to do with anything. You have a moral responsibility to repair damage, regardless of who has done it. It is what it means to be a moral compassionate human being instead of a guild ducking little worm. What is dying is conscience you moral leper.
M: Fool listen to your self. You are so stuck in what you claim is last century you whine about your innocence.
O: After your generation dies off, it will be a bunch of white-kids that see blacks as the same, and black-kids that see whites as the same. No more white-guilt. No more racism.
M: You are immature and self-centered. You don't know the difference between guilt and responsibility. You, in your need for innocence, are blind to the damage racism has done to black society. You can't man up to the fact that your guilt has nothing to do with anything. You have a moral responsibility to repair damage, regardless of who has done it. It is what it means to be a moral compassionate human being instead of a guild ducking little worm. What is dying is conscience you moral leper.
You cant argue facts, you just call names. You assume that everyone with white skin should feel guilty for the horrible things that happened to the Africans that were sold by their tribal leaders to European assholes, and then auctioned off when they got here.
Guess what? I dont feel guilty. Noone in my family feels guilty. (We migrated post-slavery). The only people who feel guilty and cry "racism" at every little thing are people like you, who have a guilty conscience.
I will never instill white-gulit into my future children. Just like the next generation of black children wont have the same victim mentality that the current generation does. Your breed of Anglo-American is dying, just like the "I need reparations, they are paying my gas and mortgage" breed of African-American is dying.
Soon, all anyone is going to say is "American", with no seperation from "African" and everyone else. Thankfully, the old fogies likes you, who try and drive a wedge between everyone by claiming that everything is "racist", will be long gone.
Racist organizations like the NAACP (seriously, who says "colored people" anymore?), and racist ideas like affirmative action are going the way of the dodo. Even our 1/2 African President will never back these sort of discriminatory practices.
Ironically, once the guilt-filled people like you, and the victimization-filled people pass-on, this country will be closer to MLKs dream.
Its being used a bludgeon by some to beat the dead racism horse in this thread when they cant prove anything factually.
Point: The "Planet of the Apes" movies were, by the definitions listed here, racist movies about black people. Discuss.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
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Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
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In the movie "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" I always thought the nuke that the underground mutants worshiped was a thinly disguised attempt at blaming badgers for the end of civilization as we know it.
O: You cant argue facts, you just call names. You assume that everyone with white skin should feel guilty for the horrible things that happened to the Africans that were sold by their tribal leaders to European assholes, and then auctioned off when they got here.
M: You lack a capacity for deep self reflection so you haven't a capacity to understand emotional facts, of which I have given plenty. You can't distinguish, as I said, between the useless emotion of guilt, of which you demonstrate you have plenty by your vociferous and insistent denial. Nobody is guilty of anything. I have no interest in making you feel guilty of racism. You live in a society in which the fact of racial bigotry, forget whose fault it is, still persists and negatively impacts the lives of both blacks and whites. If you were a real man, a guilt free man, a man of conscience and moral integrity, you would care about these facts, the fact of the damage that has been done, and is still being done by racism, not just denying any you may or may not have. You would feel a moral responsibility to stand of the side of the victimized, not maintain how you're not part of the problem how you have no responsibility and how you have nothing to do. Your need to absolve yourself of any guilt is a sure sign that guilt is your emotional trigger, that you are the one with the guilt issues, not me. I am no more guilty than you, but I seem to know it. You reach the absurd conclusion that morality and conscience exist because people feel guilty and need to act responsibly. That's because you have none and can't see the error. When you are free of guilt, THEN you can move on to responsibility. You feel guilty so your life is all about deny deny deny.
O: Guess what? I dont feel guilty. Noone in my family feels guilty. (We migrated post-slavery). The only people who feel guilty and cry "racism" at every little thing are people like you, who have a guilty conscience.
M: Guess what. You don't know what you feel. You don't even know that your need to deny reveals your guilt. You imagine that because you can put forth a logical premise, that you and your family weren't here, that somehow that logic translates into how you actually feel. Sorry Bub, but what you think, how you rationalize, can't reach or change how you feel if those feelings are unconscious. You live on the surface and don't know what is deep.
O: I will never instill white-gulit into my future children. Just like the next generation of black children wont have the same victim mentality that the current generation does. Your breed of Anglo-American is dying, just like the "I need reparations, they are paying my gas and mortgage" breed of African-American is dying.
M: As long as you have this, I am not guilty theme in your consciousness, you will instill it and transmit it unconsciously, regardless of what you say. You do not know how we work, how the human psyche operates. You are a blind man in a store promising he won't break the glass.
O: Soon, all anyone is going to say is "American", with no seperation from "African" and everyone else. Thankfully, the old fogies likes you, who try and drive a wedge between everyone by claiming that everything is "racist", will be long gone.
M: This, old fogy is so far ahead of his time I will be dead centuries before the world catches up.
O: Racist organizations like the NAACP (seriously, who says "colored people" anymore?), and racist ideas like affirmative action are going the way of the dodo. Even our 1/2 African President will never back these sort of discriminatory practices.
M: Racism makes people crazy. People who are put down constantly get angry and they get even. None of that has anything to do with you. You are pointing at the faults of others so you don't feel any blame. You're back on you're, invisible to you, guilt trip again.
O: Ironically, once the guilt-filled people like you, and the victimization-filled people pass-on, this country will be closer to MLKs dream.
M: Yup, in a few millennium when people catch on to the fact they hate themselves and are in denial.
M: You lack a capacity for deep self reflection so you haven't a capacity to understand emotional facts, of which I have given plenty. You can't distinguish, as I said, between the useless emotion of guilt, of which you demonstrate you have plenty by your vociferous and insistent denial. Nobody is guilty of anything. I have no interest in making you feel guilty of racism. You live in a society in which the fact of racial bigotry, forget whose fault it is, still persists and negatively impacts the lives of both blacks and whites. If you were a real man, a guilt free man, a man of conscience and moral integrity, you would care about these facts, the fact of the damage that has been done, and is still being done by racism, not just denying any you may or may not have. You would feel a moral responsibility to stand of the side of the victimized, not maintain how you're not part of the problem how you have no responsibility and how you have nothing to do. Your need to absolve yourself of any guilt is a sure sign that guilt is your emotional trigger, that you are the one with the guilt issues, not me. I am no more guilty than you, but I seem to know it. You reach the absurd conclusion that morality and conscience exist because people feel guilty and need to act responsibly. That's because you have none and can't see the error. When you are free of guilt, THEN you can move on to responsibility. You feel guilty so your life is all about deny deny deny.
O: Guess what? I dont feel guilty. Noone in my family feels guilty. (We migrated post-slavery). The only people who feel guilty and cry "racism" at every little thing are people like you, who have a guilty conscience.
M: Guess what. You don't know what you feel. You don't even know that your need to deny reveals your guilt. You imagine that because you can put forth a logical premise, that you and your family weren't here, that somehow that logic translates into how you actually feel. Sorry Bub, but what you think, how you rationalize, can't reach or change how you feel if those feelings are unconscious. You live on the surface and don't know what is deep.
O: I will never instill white-gulit into my future children. Just like the next generation of black children wont have the same victim mentality that the current generation does. Your breed of Anglo-American is dying, just like the "I need reparations, they are paying my gas and mortgage" breed of African-American is dying.
M: As long as you have this, I am not guilty theme in your consciousness, you will instill it and transmit it unconsciously, regardless of what you say. You do not know how we work, how the human psyche operates. You are a blind man in a store promising he won't break the glass.
O: Soon, all anyone is going to say is "American", with no seperation from "African" and everyone else. Thankfully, the old fogies likes you, who try and drive a wedge between everyone by claiming that everything is "racist", will be long gone.
M: This, old fogy is so far ahead of his time I will be dead centuries before the world catches up.
O: Racist organizations like the NAACP (seriously, who says "colored people" anymore?), and racist ideas like affirmative action are going the way of the dodo. Even our 1/2 African President will never back these sort of discriminatory practices.
M: Racism makes people crazy. People who are put down constantly get angry and they get even. None of that has anything to do with you. You are pointing at the faults of others so you don't feel any blame. You're back on you're, invisible to you, guilt trip again.
O: Ironically, once the guilt-filled people like you, and the victimization-filled people pass-on, this country will be closer to MLKs dream.
M: Yup, in a few millennium when people catch on to the fact they hate themselves and are in denial.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Two ways to perceive this...either I'm the idiot or you are. I choose the latter. But I'm prejudiced.Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You think, you idiot. No racism found because all you see is a nail.
You're getting smarter. Now you see it's all in what you see and why. If you had a lifetime of being made fun of as an ape because you're black you'd know exactly what was being said. There are facts here you cannot escape. Ape is code for black. Obama is black. Obama is talking about a stimulus plan. Two policemen shot the President. Now you may say there was no intention to evoke that code, but because that code exists it is evoked automatically. It's like calling somebody a shit head and pretending you meant dear friend. You can't be alive and functioning as a newspaper person and not know the code.
Obama is also white.
Doc Savage Fan
Lifer
- Nov 30, 2006
- 15,456
- 389
- 121
Perhaps I'm not any smarter than I was before...maybe it's just that you're starting to realize that I'm not who or what you imagined me to be.Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Two ways to perceive this...either I'm the idiot or you are. I choose the latter. But I'm prejudiced.Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You think, you idiot. No racism found because all you see is a nail.
You're getting smarter. Now you see it's all in what you see and why. If you had a lifetime of being made fun of as an ape because you're black you'd know exactly what was being said. There are facts here you cannot escape. Ape is code for black. Obama is black. Obama is talking about a stimulus plan. Two policemen shot the President. Now you may say there was no intention to evoke that code, but because that code exists it is evoked automatically. It's like calling somebody a shit head and pretending you meant dear friend. You can't be alive and functioning as a newspaper person and not know the code.
I fully understand how people can be offended by racist symbols...however I'm not buying your "code" argument here. The man who drew the cartoon is the only one in this world who knows his intent and he's clearly stated that no racist symbolism was intended:
Delonas, the cartoonist, said to CNN, "It's absolutely friggin ridiculous. Do you really think I'm saying Obama should be shot? I didn't see that in the cartoon. The chimpanzee was a major story in the Post. Every paper in New York, except The New York Times, covered the chimpanzee story. It's just ridiculous. It's about the economic stimulus bill. If you're going to make that about anybody, it would be [House Speaker Nancy] Pelosi, which it's not."
Delonas doesn't have a track record of being a racist in all his previous cartoons and I have no reason to doubt this man's word. Would not a reasonable person give this man the benefit of any reasonable doubt? Or perhaps he's a liar? Pouring esoteric meaning into a cartoon that's well beyond the artist's stated intent is perhaps 'well intended' hypersensitivity 'at best'....and for the the 'at worst' part...I'll leave that to your rather active imagination.
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Perhaps I'm not any smarter than I was before...maybe it's just that you're starting to realize that I'm not who or what you imagined me to be.Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Two ways to perceive this...either I'm the idiot or you are. I choose the latter. But I'm prejudiced.Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You think, you idiot. No racism found because all you see is a nail.
You're getting smarter. Now you see it's all in what you see and why. If you had a lifetime of being made fun of as an ape because you're black you'd know exactly what was being said. There are facts here you cannot escape. Ape is code for black. Obama is black. Obama is talking about a stimulus plan. Two policemen shot the President. Now you may say there was no intention to evoke that code, but because that code exists it is evoked automatically. It's like calling somebody a shit head and pretending you meant dear friend. You can't be alive and functioning as a newspaper person and not know the code.
I fully understand how people can be offended by racist symbols...however I'm not buying your "code" argument here. The man who drew the cartoon is the only one in this world who knows his intent and he's clearly stated that no racist symbolism was intended:
Delonas, the cartoonist, said to CNN, "It's absolutely friggin ridiculous. Do you really think I'm saying Obama should be shot? I didn't see that in the cartoon. The chimpanzee was a major story in the Post. Every paper in New York, except The New York Times, covered the chimpanzee story. It's just ridiculous. It's about the economic stimulus bill. If you're going to make that about anybody, it would be [House Speaker Nancy] Pelosi, which it's not."
Delonas doesn't have a track record of being a racist in all his previous cartoons and I have no reason to doubt this man's word. Would not a reasonable person give this man the benefit of any reasonable doubt? Or perhaps he's a liar? Pouring esoteric meaning into a cartoon that's well beyond the artist's stated intent is perhaps 'well intended' hypersensitivity 'at best'....and for the the 'at worst' part...I'll leave that to your rather active imagination.
He certainly isn't very tolerant. I don't put the racist overtone past him.
I've considered this before. The answer:
The comparisons between blacks and simians we're discussing here are *racist*, based on 'real apes' who are not as 'evolved' as man - they are false and insulting.
The apes of 'Planet of the Apes' had evolved to the status of being man's equals, replacing the human race - they were a fantasy construct used to make points about humans.
Their 'equal' evolution as 'the new man' removes the insulting aspect. The negative message about types of apes, such as the militarism of the apes, was about types of humans unrelated to race - not dividing them like 'black and white people'. Instead, the groups were 'ideologues', 'scientists', 'militarists', all unrelated to 'black and white'.
There was a message comparing white men enslaving blacks and white men enslaving simians, but it was for larger commentary on enslavement, creating empathy for the white moviegoer to see things from the point of view of the slave for a change, to see the corrupt institutions of their society better when it was 'the enemy', the simians, who had the same organizations and flaws as white America. That was not racist against blacks. Quite the opposite.
You might then argue, wasn't the simian an unfortunate choice, considering the history of racist use of comparisons? There wasn't much choice.
Who was going to be credible as some science fiction species who evolved to make the movie's points? Dogs now run the world and talk? Apes were the only reasonable choice.
Doc Savage Fan
Lifer
- Nov 30, 2006
- 15,456
- 389
- 121
Well...he's certainly not a gay marriage advocate for sure. You know...people against gay marriage are not automatically racist (many blacks are against gay marriage)...right? You know...if there was any even one remotely racist cartoon that this man has drawn in the past that it would be plastered all over the web by now...right?Originally posted by: Jack Flash
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Perhaps I'm not any smarter than I was before...maybe it's just that you're starting to realize that I'm not who or what you imagined me to be.Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Two ways to perceive this...either I'm the idiot or you are. I choose the latter. But I'm prejudiced.Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You think, you idiot. No racism found because all you see is a nail.
You're getting smarter. Now you see it's all in what you see and why. If you had a lifetime of being made fun of as an ape because you're black you'd know exactly what was being said. There are facts here you cannot escape. Ape is code for black. Obama is black. Obama is talking about a stimulus plan. Two policemen shot the President. Now you may say there was no intention to evoke that code, but because that code exists it is evoked automatically. It's like calling somebody a shit head and pretending you meant dear friend. You can't be alive and functioning as a newspaper person and not know the code.
I fully understand how people can be offended by racist symbols...however I'm not buying your "code" argument here. The man who drew the cartoon is the only one in this world who knows his intent and he's clearly stated that no racist symbolism was intended:
Delonas, the cartoonist, said to CNN, "It's absolutely friggin ridiculous. Do you really think I'm saying Obama should be shot? I didn't see that in the cartoon. The chimpanzee was a major story in the Post. Every paper in New York, except The New York Times, covered the chimpanzee story. It's just ridiculous. It's about the economic stimulus bill. If you're going to make that about anybody, it would be [House Speaker Nancy] Pelosi, which it's not."
Delonas doesn't have a track record of being a racist in all his previous cartoons and I have no reason to doubt this man's word. Would not a reasonable person give this man the benefit of any reasonable doubt? Or perhaps he's a liar? Pouring esoteric meaning into a cartoon that's well beyond the artist's stated intent is perhaps 'well intended' hypersensitivity 'at best'....and for the the 'at worst' part...I'll leave that to your rather active imagination.
He certainly isn't very tolerant. I don't put the racist overtone past him.
Maybe he isn't the only one with the tolerance problem...no? Stereotypes are lies believed by ignorant people and will be our ruin.
I haven't seen the films in a while, though - perhaps somebody can answer this for me. Were any of the "humans" in the original movie series black?
Andrew1990
Banned
- Mar 8, 2008
- 2,153
- 0
- 0
wow, just wow. Reading at some of these comments on how it is all whiteys fault and that we should feel blame forever.
That is Bull. Back in the day it was LEGAL to own a slave. People had different mind sets then what we have now. You can not compare someone from back then that couldnt even read to someone now with higher education.
In all fairness, shouldnt we get reparations from the government as they took away our slaves? Shouldnt the Slaves children's children feel bad for not staying by their master? Now this is obviously wrong in so many ways, but so is feeling guilty that some white folk's ancestors owned slaves.
It is HISTORY.
That is Bull. Back in the day it was LEGAL to own a slave. People had different mind sets then what we have now. You can not compare someone from back then that couldnt even read to someone now with higher education.
In all fairness, shouldnt we get reparations from the government as they took away our slaves? Shouldnt the Slaves children's children feel bad for not staying by their master? Now this is obviously wrong in so many ways, but so is feeling guilty that some white folk's ancestors owned slaves.
It is HISTORY.
1. That was Lincoln's plan, to end slavery by the end of the 19th century, and pay reparations to the slave owners for their loss.
2. You confuse "guilt" for something you did with recognizing the wrongs done to blacks by whites, *including* the effects of those policies that still affect blacks today.
There was also a main black human character in the movie about how the ape rebellion started. That was the closest one with the ape-black metaphor, as the apes were slaves.
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