Nik
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2006
- 16,101
- 3
- 56
Sure you have! You quoted it. He's contributing to the number of bullshit posts in this thread, not to the good ones
Sure you have! You quoted it. He's contributing to the number of bullshit posts in this thread, not to the good ones
MJinZ
Diamond Member
- Nov 4, 2009
- 8,192
- 0
- 0
Just got back from working out and finished dinner. Here's what I consumed/worked out:
5:45 PM: Pre-workout shake- 430 Calories + 25 G protein
-----------------------------------------
GYM - Chest/Triceps day (used as much weight as I could to get to 6-8 reps. went fast/intense)
Incline barbell press - 3 sets - 7 reps
Flat-bench dumbbell press - 4 sets - 8 reps
Weighted dip - 4 sets - 7 reps
Close-grip bench press - 4 sets - 7 reps
Lying triceps extension - 3 sets - 6 reps
-----------------------------------------
6:45 PM: Post-workout shake- 430 Calories + 25 G protein
Decided to go swimming after I worked out for about 30-45 minutes. Got home, did another protein shake.
8:30 PM: 300 Calories + 12.5 G Protein
9:00 PM - Dinner:
9 oz atlantic salmon - 468 calories + 51 G protein
1 cup brown rice - 218 calories + 5 g protein
1 cup black beans - 227 calories + 15 g protein
Will be doing this before bedtime:
10:50 PM:
Casein Protein shake - 120 calories + 24 g protein
1 wheat english muffin - 134 calories + 6 g protein
light Peanut butter - 50-60 calories + 2 g protein
5:45 PM: Pre-workout shake- 430 Calories + 25 G protein
-----------------------------------------
GYM - Chest/Triceps day (used as much weight as I could to get to 6-8 reps. went fast/intense)
Incline barbell press - 3 sets - 7 reps
Flat-bench dumbbell press - 4 sets - 8 reps
Weighted dip - 4 sets - 7 reps
Close-grip bench press - 4 sets - 7 reps
Lying triceps extension - 3 sets - 6 reps
-----------------------------------------
6:45 PM: Post-workout shake- 430 Calories + 25 G protein
Decided to go swimming after I worked out for about 30-45 minutes. Got home, did another protein shake.
8:30 PM: 300 Calories + 12.5 G Protein
9:00 PM - Dinner:
9 oz atlantic salmon - 468 calories + 51 G protein
1 cup brown rice - 218 calories + 5 g protein
1 cup black beans - 227 calories + 15 g protein
Will be doing this before bedtime:
10:50 PM:
Casein Protein shake - 120 calories + 24 g protein
1 wheat english muffin - 134 calories + 6 g protein
light Peanut butter - 50-60 calories + 2 g protein
I'm not "pretending" to be anything. It's hard to gain weight by just lifting (for me). Protein shakes provide added calories and protein in a quick, easy form especially after the gym or before the gym or during a work/school day. It is IMPOSSIBLE for me to gain weight by just lifting weights at the gym...unfortunately, I don't have that body type.
Don't want to keep posting here and making the thread longer so will update here every once in a while but started a blog:
http://putonpounds.blogspot.com/
http://putonpounds.blogspot.com/
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
- 20,736
- 1,379
- 126
Take steroids!!!!
What an excellent suggestion.
Heh, well .. they do work, though I cannot recommend them for very many situations at all. I recommend checking out the documentary 'Bigger, Stronger, Faster' for a crazy inside look at the whole scene. Primarily they help you 'cheat' your way beyond normal limits. When I was in my early 20s, I had maxed out at around 225-230lbs with all natural foods/materials, but after going on some routines using the above, was able to hit 275lbs and still maintaining very low body fat levels. After dropping them (several 2 week cycles over a 6 month period) I slowly wound back to slightly above my normal weight ceiling over about a 2 year period.
M0oG0oGaiPan
Diamond Member
Troll post? Sounds like some potentially heavy stuff and you don't even mention any form of PCT. So he goes on cycle and ends up in complete shut down with any number of possible sides. Funny stuff.
AznAnarchy99
Lifer
- Dec 6, 2004
- 14,695
- 117
- 106
Whole milk compared to skim gives you nothing but extra fat. Why dont you add up calories with, I dont know, good calories? Like real food + protein?
I agree that protein shakes can be great for putting on weight if you're having trouble eating enough solid food to do so, and there's nothing at all similar to "pretending to be a bodybuilder" by taking them. I personally don't use them, but I'm largely content with my current weight.
As for caloric goal, I'd say 3k is probably a good number to start at and then measure the gains from there. Although given your short time limit (30 days), you'll probably end up needing more. if I had to guess, I'd say I probably eat ~2.5k/day to maintain 170 lbs @ 5' 10.5" with my current routine (workout 5 days/week, no cardio). Then again, given that I'm a grad student, I'm certain there are also days when I eat <2k calories.
Whole milk over skim is actually a very sound way to add weight (GOMAD), as the caloric breakdown of whole milk isn't horrible in terms of fat/protein/carbs. You'll gain some fat in addition to lean mass, but when bulking, that's the most efficient way to go (i.e., bulk then cut). I've "clean bulked" on and off for the past decade, and I NEVER recommend it to anyone looking to gain any serious amount of weight. It literally took me three years to gain 10 pounds.
Remember, not everything in your diet should come in as protein--you NEED a decent amount of fat, and carbs are always nice as well.
AznAnarchy99
Lifer
- Dec 6, 2004
- 14,695
- 117
- 106
I dont argue carbs and fat. Just different types. Non refined carbs and more unsaturated fats.
First of all, you're not going to gain 10lbs of muscle mass in 30 days, especially if you've been working out regularly. You'll definitely be able to gain 10lbs of weight, but that's quite different. I don't mean to discourage you, but it's reality, and if you're going to reach any type of goal the goal has to be realistic. A begir may be able to gain 20-25 pounds of muscle mass in an entire year (not accounting for creatine loading, glyocgen supercompensation, etc.) and you plan on gaining half that in only a month and you're not even a beginner? Granted, if you're training hasn't exactly been optimal you may be able to gain a bit more, but if you're truly an intermediate a better goal would be to gain 10lbs of muscle mass in a year. People seem to have a very unrealistic view on what is achievable in terms of muscle mass for a natural athlete, which isn't a surprise because of all the ads that try to tell you otherwise to sell a product. Over the course of a lifting career you may be able to add 40-50 of muscle mass, but that's 4+ years of consistent and optimal training and diet, not accounting for down time, injuries, etc.
For a natural you'd be much better off gaining at a slower pace and setting more of a long term goal. Even if you gained 5lbs a month you'd be much better off, still giving you plenty of a surplus for growth, without too much excess. Once you've met the caloric demands for growth and recovery, the rest is just stored as fat. Even for complete beginners I usually only recommend a 500 calorie surplus a day, which at your weight would likely only be about 3000 calories. I don't know how you were eating before, but you'd be better off starting there and shooting for about 1lb a week.
Also, what does your training routine look like? You've only posted one workout day, but from the sounds of it you're taking the bodybuilding approach where you blast one muscle group once per week. It's not optimal for a natural and you'd be MUCH better off with a bit more frequency. Also, don't forget progressive overload is required to gain mass. This means the primary goal should be to lift more weight, or get more reps with the same weight (give good form obviously). Without progressing, you're not growing.
For a natural you'd be much better off gaining at a slower pace and setting more of a long term goal. Even if you gained 5lbs a month you'd be much better off, still giving you plenty of a surplus for growth, without too much excess. Once you've met the caloric demands for growth and recovery, the rest is just stored as fat. Even for complete beginners I usually only recommend a 500 calorie surplus a day, which at your weight would likely only be about 3000 calories. I don't know how you were eating before, but you'd be better off starting there and shooting for about 1lb a week.
Also, what does your training routine look like? You've only posted one workout day, but from the sounds of it you're taking the bodybuilding approach where you blast one muscle group once per week. It's not optimal for a natural and you'd be MUCH better off with a bit more frequency. Also, don't forget progressive overload is required to gain mass. This means the primary goal should be to lift more weight, or get more reps with the same weight (give good form obviously). Without progressing, you're not growing.
Last edited:
Thank you for your post.
Previously, I was consuming about 3000 calories a day with no added weight gain. If I gain 10 lbs of weight I won't be too angry - I think with that added weight I can then cut fat with good cardio/lifting program while maintaing some of the weight.
Also, I am going to start adding 3-5 g of creatine to my pre/post workout shake. Also going to add Vitargo to to my post-workout shake.
What do you mean by a "bit more frequency" ?
My guess is that he'd meant adopting a routine/split that had you working the same (or functionally related) muscle groups multiple times per week. Perhaps a two- or three-day split (push/pull, upper body/lower body, etc.).
I personally use a bodybuilding routine (i.e., one body part per day, five days a week) while being natural, but it's something I've worked up towards for years. It may work for you if you've also been going at it for a while, but a stronglifts-type split might produce better results overall.
surfsatwerk
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2008
- 10,110
- 5
- 81
5grams of creatine is all you need, time of consumption doesn't matter. Also the creatine isn't going to drastically alter your situation. Diet and workout will make or break your goals.
MJinZ
Diamond Member
- Nov 4, 2009
- 8,192
- 0
- 0
My favorite is a 3 day split:
Day 1 - Legs + Cardio
Day 2 - Chest/Shoulder/Triceps (all pressing movements involve these)
Day 3 - Back/Arms (almost all back exercises also require grip and bicep work) and Abs
This gives 2 or 3 days of rest in between any given muscle group, but keeps you lifting hard nearly every day.
I was lifting prior to starting this program by doing pretty much the same routine of of hitting the chest one day. The arms another day. The legs another day. The shoulders another day...doing about 10 reps each set (3-4 sets).
This is what I'm trying to do now. I found this article on another website that had it as a supplement to the 10 lbs in a month goal. It seems pretty reliable. What do you guys think?
WEEKS 1-2: HEAVY HITTER
The first two weeks of the program are all about lifting heavy with mass-building compound exercises. For everything but abs and calves, reps fall in the 6-8 range; for those accustomed to doing sets of 8-12, this means going heavier than normal. There are very few isolation exercises during this phase for chest, back, shoulders and legs because the emphasis is on moving as much weight as possible to add strength and size.
The volume here isn't excessive. You'll do 11 sets total for large muscle groups (the one exception being shoulders, for which you'll do 15) and train each bodypart once a week. Reason being, to pack on tons of mass you need ample recovery time. Doing endless sets in each workout can easily put you in a catabolic (muscle-wasting) state in which lean tissue is broken down, not built up. Gaining 10 pounds of muscle in such a short period requires the right balance of adequate volume to rest and recovery.
The four-day split pairs a large bodypart (chest, back, shoulders, quads/hams) with one or two smaller muscle groups (tri's, bi's, traps, calves, abs) in each workout. This helps ensure that you're fresh when doing your heaviest compound exercises.
WEEKS 3-4: INTENSITY BOOST
The second half of the program is all about maximizing size with slightly higher reps and an emphasis on intensity. Rep ranges move up to 10-12 for most exercises, which is ideal for promoting muscle hypertrophy (growth). Overall volume increases slightly during these two weeks, mainly due to the addition of isolation exercises that you'll perform before compound movements for your chest, back, shoulders and legs.
Called pre-exhaustion, this technique dramatically increases workout intensity. You fatigue the main target muscle with an isolation exercise, then hit it in this fatigued state with a compound move, which if done right will lead to your main muscle failing before assistance muscles give out. (For example, for chest the dumbbell flye hits the pecs directly, so your triceps shouldn't end up being the weak link and cause the termination of the set during the bench press).
This phase continues to employ a four-day split, but bodyparts are paired differently--namely, chest and back are trained on the same day (Day 1), as are biceps and triceps (Day 4). This is little more than a means of changing things up, giving your muscles a slightly different stimulus to spark new muscle growth. Each workout includes drop sets to increase intensity, but for only one set per bodypart, so as to avoid overtraining and muscle catabolism.
As a parting thought, we can't emphasize enough the importance of consistency and staying focused. Your workouts shouldn't be two-hour affairs--each visit to the gym needs to be fast-paced and intense. With that as your guide and following the heavy-duty blueprint laid out here, we can't promise it'll be easy, but the results should be worth every drop of sweat. Just think, 10 more muscular pounds may be a mere month away.
This is what I'm trying to do now. I found this article on another website that had it as a supplement to the 10 lbs in a month goal. It seems pretty reliable. What do you guys think?
WEEKS 1-2: HEAVY HITTER
The first two weeks of the program are all about lifting heavy with mass-building compound exercises. For everything but abs and calves, reps fall in the 6-8 range; for those accustomed to doing sets of 8-12, this means going heavier than normal. There are very few isolation exercises during this phase for chest, back, shoulders and legs because the emphasis is on moving as much weight as possible to add strength and size.
The volume here isn't excessive. You'll do 11 sets total for large muscle groups (the one exception being shoulders, for which you'll do 15) and train each bodypart once a week. Reason being, to pack on tons of mass you need ample recovery time. Doing endless sets in each workout can easily put you in a catabolic (muscle-wasting) state in which lean tissue is broken down, not built up. Gaining 10 pounds of muscle in such a short period requires the right balance of adequate volume to rest and recovery.
The four-day split pairs a large bodypart (chest, back, shoulders, quads/hams) with one or two smaller muscle groups (tri's, bi's, traps, calves, abs) in each workout. This helps ensure that you're fresh when doing your heaviest compound exercises.
WEEKS 3-4: INTENSITY BOOST
The second half of the program is all about maximizing size with slightly higher reps and an emphasis on intensity. Rep ranges move up to 10-12 for most exercises, which is ideal for promoting muscle hypertrophy (growth). Overall volume increases slightly during these two weeks, mainly due to the addition of isolation exercises that you'll perform before compound movements for your chest, back, shoulders and legs.
Called pre-exhaustion, this technique dramatically increases workout intensity. You fatigue the main target muscle with an isolation exercise, then hit it in this fatigued state with a compound move, which if done right will lead to your main muscle failing before assistance muscles give out. (For example, for chest the dumbbell flye hits the pecs directly, so your triceps shouldn't end up being the weak link and cause the termination of the set during the bench press).
This phase continues to employ a four-day split, but bodyparts are paired differently--namely, chest and back are trained on the same day (Day 1), as are biceps and triceps (Day 4). This is little more than a means of changing things up, giving your muscles a slightly different stimulus to spark new muscle growth. Each workout includes drop sets to increase intensity, but for only one set per bodypart, so as to avoid overtraining and muscle catabolism.
As a parting thought, we can't emphasize enough the importance of consistency and staying focused. Your workouts shouldn't be two-hour affairs--each visit to the gym needs to be fast-paced and intense. With that as your guide and following the heavy-duty blueprint laid out here, we can't promise it'll be easy, but the results should be worth every drop of sweat. Just think, 10 more muscular pounds may be a mere month away.
As long as you understand the whole 10lbs won't be muscle, then it's fine. If you're training right some of it definitely will and at least you know you have to eat to gain weight, even if I don't agree with quite that much of a surplus.
5g a day in your post workout shake would be fine, and should reach total saturation by the end of the 30 days. Alternatively, you could consume 20 grams (5g doese spread throughout the day) for 5 days, which would be the fastest route, but may cause stomach upset in some people. You could even just do 10g a day for 10 days. Whichever method you choose the end result is the same, just the time taken to reach complete saturation. If you decide to load, you'd just take 5g a day after that point to maintain creatine levels.
Vitargo is just a wazy maize startch and while it may benefit athletes who need to maximize glycogen synthesis between two workouts very close together, it's not going to have much benefit for you. If you already have some, then take it. If not, I wouldn't bother. In your case the primary determinant of whether or not normal glycogen levels are acheieved is going to be the total amount of carbohydrates.
You should be hitting a muscle group AT LEAST every 5th day. Ideally 2x a week. 3x a week can work well too, especially for beginners. The problem is that all the anabolic processes behind muscle growth such as protein synthesis, IGF-1 levels, mRNA levels, etc. return to normal in about 36 hours. So true anabolism after loading only lasts around two two days and the rest of the time is spent "recovering."
Obviously there has to be a balance between frequency, volume, and intensity though. Most people are best off with some sort of upper/lower split, similiar to Lyle McDonalds generic bulking routine.
The main problem with the routine you posted (besides frequency and claiming to build 10lbs of muscle) is splitting the heavy and intensity groups into two week parts, not nearly long enough to provide much if any in terms of adaptions for someone who's been working out for a while. It's a trap far too many people fall into, but whatever rep ranges, program, exercises or whatever you choose, you should stick with for a good 6-8 weeks before making changes. You can just easily fit both the heavy stuff and high rep metabolic work in the same workout anyway.
Let's take a chest workout for example, 1-3 movements with varied rep ranges.
Bench Press 5x5
DB Incline Press 3x8-12
Flyes 2x15-20
As for pre-exhaustion, it really depends. Let's use the bench press as an example. If you find throughout the sets your triceps seem to giving out way before your chest does, your chest isn't receiving near the stimulis it should due to weak triceps. In this case it may be benefitial. If your weak point is your chest, all you'll end up doing is limiting the amount of weight you'll be able to lift on the bench press. In your case I wouldn't really worry about it too much and just worry about getting stronger. For everybody except the most advanced athletes, that's usually all that's needed, given sufficient volume and food for growth.
All in all, it sounds like your training routine needs some serious work. If hypertrophy is your main goal something like Lyle McDonalds Generic Bulking Routine that I mentioned earlier is what I would recommend....
http://www.lylemcdonald.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1696
I'm curious though... what are your current rep maxes on bench, squat, deadlift, row,etc.? If you don't even have those bases down, that might be where you'd want to start.
This is what I came in here to say. If you're not doing the big lifts (squat, deadlift, bench, weighted dips and pull-ups) then you're not really training, and you're not going to get the stimulus required to grow quality muscle. Compound movements should take absolute priority over isolation exercises, and any isolation stuff should really just be considered assistance work for the compounds. There's no reason to do 10 kinds of bicep curl, especially when done at the expense of something much more useful.
surfsatwerk
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2008
- 10,110
- 5
- 81
If you're a human being, then you have the body type that can get bigger by eating more and lifting weights.
Update:
Day 2 8/31
Pretty much ate all the same except on lunch had a roast beef sandwich on wheat and dinner had a 8 oz steak with black beans and brown rice.
Also worked out lower body/abs and went swimming afterward.
Exercise Sets Reps
Quads/Hamstrings/Glutes
Smith Machine Squat 3 6-8
Leg Press 4 6-8
Hack Squat 4 6-8
Hamstrings
Romanian Deadlift 4 (1) 6-8
Calves
Standing Calf Raise 3 (1) 20
Abs
Hanging Leg Raise 2 20
Cable Crunch 2 20
Day 2 8/31
Pretty much ate all the same except on lunch had a roast beef sandwich on wheat and dinner had a 8 oz steak with black beans and brown rice.
Also worked out lower body/abs and went swimming afterward.
Exercise Sets Reps
Quads/Hamstrings/Glutes
Smith Machine Squat 3 6-8
Leg Press 4 6-8
Hack Squat 4 6-8
Hamstrings
Romanian Deadlift 4 (1) 6-8
Calves
Standing Calf Raise 3 (1) 20
Abs
Hanging Leg Raise 2 20
Cable Crunch 2 20
SociallyChallenged
Elite
- Mar 22, 2002
- 10,483
- 32
- 81
If you're trying to gain significant mass in a short amount of time, can you tell me why you're using the Smith machine to squat rather than a barbell and power/squat rack?
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