++ ATOT official NEF thread part IV ++

[sdifox]

Oh gas tankless is on the agenda but they are expensive. If I go that route I want a good condensing one, they are super efficient. 2 pipes, like a furnace, so no vaccum sucking your conditioned air outside.

So might do electric first since I need a holding tank anyway, then I'll decide if I want to do tankless too. I could save by doing install myself (got quoted for 7k to install) but would still need to hire out gas line (about 2k). I don't have the threading tools to do it myself and rather not touch gas anyway.

don't you have a gas water heater? just install the tankless one on the wall near there so minimal gas piping work. drill holes to outside to vent. there is no way that is 2000 just for the piping.

 

[Red Squirrel]

don't you have a gas water heater? just install the tankless one on the wall near there so minimal gas piping work. drill holes to outside to vent. there is no way that is 2000 just for the piping.

It's next to the furnace, not ideal to put the tankless there as there is no wall for it. I would probably end up putting it near where my water comes in as it's an outside wall then it can vent straight out. So it would be far from where the gas line goes, but even then the gas line goes all the way to the ground still need to modify it a lot evne if I built a wall where the tank is now. I still need that space for the holding tank anyway. The water here comes in at around 1C so a tankless can't bring it up high enough so you need a holding tank which is basically just a hot water tank that you don't run.

 

[Red Squirrel]

This is probably the tankless I would go with, or similar if I did go that route:

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/rheem-platinum-condensing-18-5-litres-per-minute-gas-tankless-water-heater/1000730128

The smaller ones are designed mostly for point of use, like a bathroom sink where water only needs to be warm enough to hand wash.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Navian makes some that have separate set of inlet/outlet too, you can setup a glycol loop for heating. Could heat my garage with it too.

 

[Red Squirrel]

There's also electric tankless: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/rheem-rheem-36kw-electric-tankless-water-heater/1001070389?rec=true


36kw lmao. I need to call Ontario Power Generation to warn them before I take a shower. "Yeah you're going to want to open up a couple extra dams".

 

[Red Squirrel]

If my calcs are right, would need a 150 amp circuit for that. LOL.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I should probably go to bed.

 

[Red Squirrel]

But first, I have to poop. I will go to bed nice and lighter.

 

[shortylickens]

I havent ate a Reeses Peanut Butter Cup in some time.
Tried one today.
Its weird.
Did they change the recipe?

 

[bigboxes]

I havent ate a Reeses Peanut Butter Cup in some time.
Tried one today.
Its weird.
Did they change the recipe?

Are you talking the full size regular ones? Sometimes the miniatures don't taste quite right, like they cheaped out the product.

 

[EliteRetard]

That's kinda my argument for electric, I might not even see a big enough dent in my hydro bill to bother going tankless. And since I need a holding tank anyway... may as well just do that part first. Those things are 6kw though. But I guess it's not like it's running all the time, and I can insulate the crap out of it.

I seriously don't understand your thinking.
You have a gas water heater, replace it with a gas water heater...it's practically a drag and drop.
Why go through the hassle/expense of wiring in an electric?

You can get good quality, name brand, energy star, 10 year gas units for around $600.
Cost to install is less than $100 even if you replace the expansion tank (probably should).

Get one with a brass drain valve (not plastic) and flush it every year or two (clears sediment).
That along with a replacement anode (before warranty expires) can keep a unit working for 20+ years.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I seriously don't understand your thinking.
You have a gas water heater, replace it with a gas water heater...it's practically a drag and drop.
Why go through the hassle/expense of wiring in an electric?

You can get good quality, name brand, energy star, 10 year gas units for around $600.
Cost to install is less than $100 even if you replace the expansion tank (probably should).

Get one with a brass drain valve (not plastic) and flush it every year or two (clears sediment).
That along with a replacement anode (before warranty expires) can keep a unit working for 20+ years.

The type I have is the old style, need to update all the venting if I put gas. They are super inefficient. Bet I use more gas to heat water than to heat the house. Most of the heat just goes up the chimney. If I'm going to go gas rather go with a higher efficiency unit like a condensing tankless but it would not go in the same location as it needs to be on a wall.

 

[EliteRetard]

The type I have is the old style, need to update all the venting if I put gas. They are super inefficient. Bet I use more gas to heat water than to heat the house. Most of the heat just goes up the chimney. If I'm going to go gas rather go with a higher efficiency unit like a condensing tankless but it would not go in the same location as it needs to be on a wall.

Old style?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Old style?

With pilot light, and metal chimney. They are not efficient as most of the heat goes outside and they suck your home's heat outside with it too. Cheapest compromise option is to do a direct vent, though those still suck your indoor air outside. They make dual pipe condensing tank but condensing tankless are cheaper so I'd go that route first. I may very well just bite the bullet and go to that and skip the holding tank, I MIGHT be ok. Electric tanks are like $300 though vs $2,000 for tankless. The old style gas heaters are around $1,000 while power vent is a bit more.

The best option as far as efficiency is the condensing tankless while electric is cheaper immediately. So I just need to decide best route really. The electric might not even be that big of a dent on the hydro bill and since there's no venting involved I can insulate the crap out of it (R14 batts all around) and really I'd only be paying when I use it.

 

[IronWing]

Do you have the power available for a tankless system?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Tankless electric hardly makes any sense, savings arn't that great compared to electric tank which cost less so may as well go tank, but gas tankless makes more sense vs gas tank as they also happen to be more efficient. The marketting on tankless is odd, yeah you save by not keeping a tank warm, but the true savings are in the combustion system and they never talk about that. The tankless gas just happen to have a more efficient combustion. (95% efficient I think?)

But no I only have 100a service. Electric tankless are monsters as you need so much energy to heat the water on the fly. Electric tank will use around 6kw which I have capacity for.

Probably end up going with this: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/rh...r-minute-gas-tankless-water-heater/1000730128

Or if I decide to just go electric, this: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/rh...-water-heater-with-6-year-warranty/1000792357

Kinda leaning on the electric option as it's cheapest and if I feel my hydro bill is higher then I'll do tankless and have the electric as a backup. Downside with tankless is they are more complex and have more failure modes so I'd have my bases covered with a backup.

 

[IronWing]

I’m at a Persian music concert that’s about to begin. Free Bird or Stairway to Heaven?

 

[lxskllr]

I have roof cats now. I was carrying wood to the porch, stopped, looked at the garage roof, and Spot was up there. Went out a bit later, and Spot was still up there along with another cat. They're climbing up a tree to get there.

Yesterday I saw spot with something dangling out of her mouth. I went up to see what she had, and it was as I expected, a young garter snake. I chased her off, and the snake was trying to act impressive striking at the air and stuff. Once he calmed down, he slithered off somewhere. Hope he does a better job avoiding the cats going forward.

 

[sdifox]

I have roof cats now. I was carrying wood to the porch, stopped, looked at the garage roof, and Spot was up there. Went out a bit later, and Spot was still up there along with another cat. They're climbing up a tree to get there.

Yesterday I saw spot with something dangling out of her mouth. I went up to see what she had, and it was as I expected, a young garter snake. I chased her off, and the snake was trying to act impressive striking at the air and stuff. Once he calmed down, he slithered off somewhere. Hope he does a better job avoiding the cats going forward.

The cats are waiting for birds.

 

[lxskllr]

The cats are waiting for birds.

Nah, they just like it up there. Makes them feel secure. They aren't stupid. Of all the places on the property, the roof's one of the worst for hunting. Lots of good hiding places down low where the birds go.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Managed to get a good chunk of the snow off the solar panels. Because it was all crusty and crap I could not brush it last time I tried but I had the idea to turn the brush around and I can use the handle to drill a bunch of holes and then criss cross the patterns until I can make it weak enough so leverage can break it off and it worked.

Still at least an inch on there but at least the weight is off them. Lot of it managed to evaporate (sometimes snow does that when it's warm but not super warm) but still it would get very heavy in spring if I left it especially since there's still more storms ahead of us.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I still need to fix the wire entry as well, the plastic bag protector is kind of redneck.

 

[sdifox]

I still say you mount it on acme spring ramp.

 

[IronWing]

Just hook up a voltage source and run the solar panels in reverse. All that sunshine should melt the snow.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Just hook up a voltage source and run the solar panels in reverse. All that sunshine should melt the snow.

No, unless you believe in Solar Roadways. Also this sun is a rarity. We usually don't get full sun like this, it's usually overcast. You need LOT of heat to melt that much snow. What I may experiment with is to heat them enough to at least deal with freezing rain though, if I can stop that crust from forming in first place, the rest can be easily brushed off. Still would rely on me having to stay on top of it every day though as far as regular snow goes, but I do want to automate a brush/shovel system too.

This summer I'm continuing on converting my unfinished garage to a shop (insulating, heating etc), so after that there are tons of projects I'll be able to work on year round as I'll have a proper shop to work in. The solar project is one of the many projects I have in mind.