Atlanta schools cheating scandal

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a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
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I have to admit you've impressed me. I didn't think your posts could get dumber than when you started, dear Flower Mound, but you have succeeded!

Take a victory lap, you've earned it.

Hey, it was their call, not mine. Their argument was that if it had not been for "No Child Left Behind", a program by Bush 43, then there would not have been a reason to cheat.

Ergo.....It is Bush's fault.

Where am I going wrong? I am only reporting what the teachers there have said.
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
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Thanks for being a partisan political hack and offering no solution, or do you agree with the 100% policy by 2014? Please tell.

Btw, the article doesn't even mention NCLB, but it isn't hard to connect the dots. Funny how you are the first to even bring Bush into this. Bad policy is bad policy regardless of who is behind it.
 
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a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
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Thanks for being a partisan political hack and offering no solution, or do you agree with the 100% policy by 2014? Please tell.

The article doesn't even mention NCLB, but it isn't hard to connect the dots. Funny how you are the first to even bring Bush into this.

My opinion is that these "teachers" ought be fired, at a minimum, but my opinion is not relevant. The opinion of the local voters/parents are.

Besides this is just what Americans of a liberal bent do.....they cheat. The end justifies the means. Paying too much in taxes....cheat on your tax return. Need a job....cheat on your resume. Football team isn't doing well....cheat to get better, if not eligible, players. Running for elective office....cheat when counting the votes.

Again, I didn't bring up "No Child Left Behind" or Mr. Bush(43)....they, the cheaters did.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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This is a good point. I would add that the reason we don't have more "serious and smart students" is cultural and starts in the home.
Quite true, and we need to be fixing parents as much as schools, teachers, and students. However, it's difficult to convince kids that real education is important is an entitlement society. If they are entitled to other people's money by the mere fact of existence, why should they expend the energy to excel? In our society, work has been devalued, along with achievement and education.

Yes - but before we start holding (or at least at the same time) the schools accountable for student performance we need to hold students and parents accountable. The child has to be at school (The truancy program is a joke in a lot of this country. Schools with attendance issues around here will often times only have 1 officer for 6,000+ students). The child must behave. Parents must be involved in their child's education. No more 'Little Johnny is an angel and would never do anything wrong.' bullshit when little Johnny is disciplined for insubordination

The Taylor Public schools were recently part of a study that found 40-50% of the classroom time was spent with classroom management not teaching. 'Put away the cell phone' 'Stop talking' 'Go into the hall' Time spent talking to the student in the hall. 'Give me the cell phone.' "Yes you have to give me the cell phone'. etc

If we hold teachers and administrators accountable for student performance without changing other aspects the system will be inherently unfair and flawed and I would expect we will see many more cases of 'creative accounting' (Not that two wrongs make a right)
SNIP
Good points. However, we should always hold teachers and administrators accountable for doing their jobs honestly and to the best of their ability. These teachers and administrators spent their time and energies cheating rather than teaching, shortchanging the kids for their own benefit. They belong in prison.

This is one of the focuses at our public charter school. We require 96% attendance. Anything below that is referred to the board for administrative action. For the record no one has ever been removed from the school for low attendance, but the parents are seriously inconvenienced which prompts action on their part. Medical cases are handled individually.

Parents are also expected (and sign up) to be involved in their child's education. If students don't turn in daily homework the child and parents are held responsible. It works for more than 95% of the population. Those students or parents who can't handle it either slide by or remove themselves from the system and return to normal public school.

Economics may be an influence, but that be overcome with a combination of parents and schools that are involved. Even though we have a higher poverty level and special needs population we out perform the local public district. The key difference is that our parents support us and we care. The students perform accordingly.
This has to be the answer for ALL public schools. Those kids whose parents (let's be honest, usually it's "parent" rather than "parents") cannot or will not do this need to be in foster care.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
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Economics may be an influence, but that be overcome with a combination of parents and schools that are involved. Even though we have a higher poverty level and special needs population we out perform the local public district. The key difference is that our parents support us and we care. The students perform accordingly.
:thumbsup: You get a guardian, teacher and school working well together and actively involved in the child's education and you can achieve a lot regardless of social economic status, region, guardian status, or learning disability

Good points. However, we should always hold teachers and administrators accountable for doing their jobs honestly and to the best of their ability. These teachers and administrators spent their time and energies cheating rather than teaching, shortchanging the kids for their own benefit. They belong in prison.

It was not my intention to excuse their cheating or insinuate they should not be punished - rather that given the system, the demands it places as well as the penalties for failing I was not surprised at all that it happened and would expect it to become more prevalent
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
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:thumbsup: You get a guardian, teacher and school working well together and actively involved in the child's education and you can achieve a lot regardless of social economic status, region, guardian status, or learning disability

It was not my intention to excuse their cheating or insinuate they should not be punished - rather that given the system, the demands it places as well as the penalties for failing I was not surprised at all that it happened and would expect it to become more prevalent
Understood, and you are doubtless correct. My comment was not a criticism of your statement, merely a reiteration of my opinion that when these things happen, they should be harshly punished. And I quite agree with your answer to Uhtrinity.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
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It is not no child left behind that forced educators to cheat and lie and obfuscate public records. Don't you people dare fvcking blame this on that. It may be a terrible program, it may be useless, but these people voluntarily systematically lied on a huge scale over a long period of time. The lot of them should be exempt from acting in a teaching if not a public capacity ever again and some should face prison, for they did break actual laws.


It's always Bush's fault, always.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
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Its the ghetto ass community that should be ashamed by having such stupid ass kids, most of which should have been aborted.

I'm always amazed at the internet, people with massive genetic flaws like you somehow managed to work your flippers enough to slam out a post.
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KK
Its the ghetto ass community that should be ashamed by having such stupid ass kids, most of which should have been aborted.

I'm always amazed at the internet, people with massive genetic flaws like you somehow managed to work your flippers enough to slam out a post.

Well, at least KK didn't have to cheat to "slam out a post".
 

Wordplay

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2010
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The only real demographic that matters is income level. Rich kids get private tutors/prep classes/parental support. Poor kids, no matter their race don't have those opportunities and due to budget constraints they're even cutting back on summer school, so the kids that are behind are basically doomed to be forever.

Many of those "slow-learners" can be turned into high achievement learners if given equal opportunities. You're advocating sentencing 10 year old kids to wear scarlet letters for the rest of their scholastic career based on their elementary school performance - which is where much of the inequality in our education system is rooted.
Poor kids do have opportunities. Going through the Detroit Public School system myself I seen most kids ignore them.

I agree that the slow learners can get and obtain high achievements in life. But they have to do it usually at a slower pace to get there. While other kids just get it, naturally gifted kids that understand things faster. The faster learners should not be held back by the slower learners. On the other side of the coin the slow learners shouldn't feel dumb by not being able to keep up with everyone else.

To me it makes sense to split these type of kids up so they can get the right education and attention they need based on how well they learn.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
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Poor kids do have opportunities. Going through the Detroit Public School system myself I seen most kids ignore them.

I agree that the slow learners can get and obtain high achievements in life. But they have to do it usually at a slower pace to get there. While other kids just get it, naturally gifted kids that understand things faster. The faster learners should not be held back by the slower learners. On the other side of the coin the slow learners shouldn't feel dumb by not being able to keep up with everyone else.

To me it makes sense to split these type of kids up so they can get the right education and attention they need based on how well they learn.

If there was a way to do that without the accompanying stigma then I would be all for it. I just don't see how that can be done without things like parental support - which is lacking for many of these kids.

But I would add that in addition to learning at different paces, there are also children who do not learn in the same way as others. The one size fits all mentality is a disservice to many of them.

Overall education needs to be more flexible to the needs of its students. HS kids should be able to exert much more choice over what they're taking including the option to spend their junior/senior years studying a trade instead of trig or calculus.
 

gsaldivar

Diamond Member
Apr 30, 2001
8,691
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HS kids should be able to exert much more choice over what they're taking including the option to spend their junior/senior years studying a trade instead of trig or calculus.

There are many opportunities for students to do that during their HS junior/senior years without displacing a traditional curriculum. After school/weekend/summer jobs, internships, occupational programs, etc.

As someone already said, the opportunities are there. Students just have to take advantage of them. Giving students the freedom to cherry-pick their curriculum doesn't solve that.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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Poor kids do have opportunities. Going through the Detroit Public School system myself I seen most kids ignore them.

I agree that the slow learners can get and obtain high achievements in life. But they have to do it usually at a slower pace to get there. While other kids just get it, naturally gifted kids that understand things faster. The faster learners should not be held back by the slower learners. On the other side of the coin the slow learners shouldn't feel dumb by not being able to keep up with everyone else.

To me it makes sense to split these type of kids up so they can get the right education and attention they need based on how well they learn.
Poor kids do have opportunities, but seldom much motivation. This is a prosperous country, and your typical poor kid is usually being raised by a single mother or single grandparent, often addicted to drugs and alcohol. He probably goes to school without breakfast after having stayed up late due to lack of supervision, so he's both hungry and sleepy. Neither is conducive to learning. No one he knows works using the subjects he is supposedly learning - large numbers don't work at all and still receive checks, some work at menial jobs, the more prosperous ones work for the government, and most prosperous are probably criminals. The people he looks up to are probably athletes or actors, because although we claim as a society to respect education, intelligence and achievement, the people we glorify are mostly athletes and actors. The scuzziest, least intelligent people imaginable he sees with their own reality shows, and if he sees anything at all about science, it's probably a super villain or blowing up something.

His friends probably don't value academics either. His one parent or grandparent is probably either apathetic due to addiction, or too tired to exert much discipline. She is also probably highly protective of him, or more properly his prerogatives and his cred, much more likely to protest a teacher "dissin" him than to protest his acting out or failing to show up.

Single parents and the welfare state have absolutely destroyed our culture with regards to education, but this is the population we have to work with. We'll always have some kids who are smart enough to self-motivate in the worst situations and some single or poor parents who manage to make their children work for their future, but most kids are by definition, average. In this kind of situation, most kids will fail. If we are to not fall into Third World socioeconomic status, we have to motivate at least most of these kids and their parents to excel.
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
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The teachers, administrators and accomplices should never be allowed to work in education again. The administrators / ringleaders should face jail time, with accomplices fined / placed on probation. This is corruption, plane and simple and must be crushed.
plain

On the other news colleges and universities has been know to give out much more A's now than the past because of pressure from wealthy parents and patrons.
 
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iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
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Really, correcting someone's grammar?
I want to point out that everyone make mistakes and I make more than most in this forum. However, there are Nazis in here that go out of their way to ridicule people at every chance they have, if they spot a mistake so that they can feel superior.

I don't correct language mistake that often even those most people on this board use then instead of than in a sentence, but this is one incident that I spoke up, because of the thread subject.

I'm sorry if I offended you.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,386
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I don't correct language mistake that often (comma?) even those most people on this board use then instead of than in a sentence, but this is one incident that I spoke up, because of the thread subject.

Holy shit.