ATi's CCC: Not the greatest but not that bad either.

[5150Joker]

Hell the X3 Demo is a better benchmark than 3DMark05 or 06. It is based on an actual game so it gives you real world results. It's true, 3dmark is only good for e-penis competitions and/or testing the stability of an overclock IMO. I also use it to measure relative performance between two cards that I may own but not between mine and someone else since it is so easy to play with control panel and mip map settings to alter your score.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Hell the X3 Demo is a better benchmark than 3DMark05 or 06. It is based on an actual game so it gives you real world results.

LOL! Sadly, even with how boring those "X" games were, it is a true statement. But does anyone play it?

 

[chinkgai]

i dont have hl2 or quake4, but i know fear has the little performance checker sequence, but even that would have to be run at the same resolutions and aa/af settings and stuff

so if you dont have a specific game, what would u use as a real world benchmark? also, newest games nowadays also depend on the card brand as well...some favoring ati, some favoring nvidia. in the end there really is no easy solution.

i agree with ur first paragraph though, the part regarding comparing same card with different clocks. its an easy and quick solution to do so, rather than running out and buying a game.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: chinkgai
i dont have hl2 or quake4, but i know fear has the little performance checker sequence, but even that would have to be run at the same resolutions and aa/af settings and stuff

so if you dont have a specific game, what would u use as a real world benchmark? also, newest games nowadays also depend on the card brand as well...some favoring ati, some favoring nvidia. in the end there really is no easy solution.

i agree with ur first paragraph though, the part regarding comparing same card with different clocks. its an easy and quick solution to do so, rather than running out and buying a game.

Most demos also contain built in benchmarks. So you really don't have to buy all the games. Secondly, there should be no reason for you to be running these anyway, unless you are a reviewer and are comparing several cards. I am guessing most people here do not write their own reviews, nor do they have the best of both companies products here to freely test, and if they did, I don't think going out and purchasing a game would be the end of the world, consider you have $1,300 in the video cards inventory at the moment (512 GTX + X1900XTX).

Now, as far as tweaking your system then you have a very valid reason to run benchmarks, anyone for that matter to make sure they are getting the most out the card they purchased. In that case, any single game would be better than 3DMark for comparison purposes. After all, what does it matter if you are scoring very high in 3DMark but cannot play your favorite game?

 

[chinkgai]

i actually use it for looping more than anything to test vid/cpu stability

01 for cpu, 05/06 for vid

and yes i had both the x1800xt and 7800gtx 256mb at one point...but was still too cheap to buy games that i wouldnt play purely for testing.

aoe3 is the only game i play but i like ati's vivo solution far more than nvidia's vivo and i chose ati over nvidia even though my nvidia pwned my ati in the only game i played.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: chinkgai
i actually use it for looping more than anything to test vid/cpu stability

Actually, this is one feature I did forget about, but it only comes if you purchase it, I believe...? But I agree, looping 3DMark is a great way to test for system stability.

 

[Sphexi]

Omega drivers FTW.

 

[mindless1]

This thread is so sad.

Taking something you KNOW is a problem and thinkin' you're so darn special that you can argue your way into tricking others into believing it's A-OK.

Go ahead and get defensive about it, again thinking an argument makes it ok. One has to wonder what your real motivations are. If you really like ATI THAT much then perhaps your tune should be "let's try to encourage them to develop BETTER software", not take a passive attitude about really poor SW.

You can't just declare you don't mind something and therefore we have to agree, as a way to discount valid arguments others have for avoiding the SW or the product.

So you have 2GB of memory. Woohoo. If your attitude is that it's ok to have everything bloated and slower, your system is slower as a result. If you only want to argue it's ok for one particular app to have this issue, therefore not such an impact on the whole system, then you make a special exception for one company and that in itself is a bias.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: mindless1
This thread is so sad.

Taking something you KNOW is a problem and thinkin' you're so darn special that you can argue your way into tricking others into believing it's A-OK.

Go ahead and get defensive about it, again thinking an argument makes it ok. One has to wonder what your real motivations are. If you really like ATI THAT much then perhaps your tune should be "let's try to encourage them to develop BETTER software", not take a passive attitude about really poor SW.

You can't just declare you don't mind something and therefore we have to agree, as a way to discount valid arguments others have for avoiding the SW or the product.

So you have 2GB of memory. Woohoo. If your attitude is that it's ok to have everything bloated and slower, your system is slower as a result. If you only want to argue it's ok for one particular app to have this issue, therefore not such an impact on the whole system, then you make a special exception for one company and that in itself is a bias.

Thank you!

 

[Kalessian]

You can be an ATi fan and still dislike the CCC.

Remember that.

 

[rbV5]

I've tested CCC on a number of platforms since well before it was available. I've not measured a performance difference vs CP on any of my rigs from my 2GB X1800XT rig down to my Duron900 8500Le rig with 256MB of system memory. Its just not there in my testing.

The application itself has had a number of performance and other issues, and anyone should be able to understand a general dislike for it compared to the speed of CP or ATIT for example.

Most users do miss the fact that many seetings are quickly available from the system tray, that the system skin is far faster than the default skin, and that you can turn off the splash sceen though. The GUI is nicely laid out as well.

ATIT tools can be buggy with X1800 cards from my experience. I use Rivatuner for hardware monitoring and fan control, but its not able to replace the CCC completely. I don't think there is one single solution, but I do use CCC on all my rgs and it works for wat it is supposed to, and I can sometimes spend alot of time changing driver settings when I'm testing software.

It aint great, but it aint bad IMO.

 

[beggerking]

Actually, the discussion was on how much system resources the program takes up. It is just absurd to have a 70mb applet running in the background. A waste of system resources...

Though I suppose CCC does do something staying in memory? is that correct?

One thing I found out is video output doesn't work once I kill all CCC processes in memory...

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: beggerking
Actually, the discussion was on how much system resources the program takes up. It is just absurd to have a 70mb applet running in the background. A waste of system resources...

Though I suppose CCC does do something staying in memory? is that correct?

One thing I found out is video output doesn't work once I kill all CCC processes in memory...

Depends on the app, but CCC certainly does not have 70MB memory footprint running in the background, and as a.Net application its memory requirement is dynamic as has been explained quite clearly in this thread.

IMO, complaints about CCC when not in the actual GUI are completely unfounded and it has virtually no impact on gaming or desktop performance on powerful or weaker rigs.

Complaints about a slower boot completely to the desktop, slower pop of the CCC application from launch and the overall GUI/functionality of the application are well founded and documented, so for those reasons, desiring an alternative way to set driver settings can be understandable, but even from a system resources standpoint, it handles system resources very transparently in my experience and the compaints seem unjustified, and exaggerated IMO.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: beggerking
Actually, the discussion was on how much system resources the program takes up. It is just absurd to have a 70mb applet running in the background. A waste of system resources...

Though I suppose CCC does do something staying in memory? is that correct?

One thing I found out is video output doesn't work once I kill all CCC processes in memory...

Depends on the app, but CCC certainly does not have 70MB memory footprint running in the background, and as a.Net application its memory requirement is dynamic as has been explained quite clearly in this thread.

IMO, complaints about CCC when not in the actual GUI are completely unfounded and it has virtually no impact on gaming or desktop performance on powerful or weaker rigs.

Complaints about a slower boot completely to the desktop, slower pop of the CCC application from launch and the overall GUI/functionality of the application are well founded and documented, so for those reasons, desiring an alternative way to set driver settings can be understandable, but even from a system resources standpoint, it handles system resources very transparently in my experience and the compaints seem unjustified, and exaggerated IMO.

there is at least 17mb in physical memory most of the time, while not as bad as 70mb, still a waste of system resources as I have explained in earlier posts. Even Knight's diagram from school reflected my theory.

Anyways, it all came down to the question:

1. Why does CCC stay in resident (17mb) if it doesn't do anything?
2. Why do other users state CCC executables stay in resident even when CCC is disabled?
3. Why video output stopped working after I disabled CCC?

The lack of answer to above questions have led me to suspect CCC does indeed work in background ( rather than just modify registry entries). As far as I know, anything that does work in background require the program to be loaded into physical memory therefore increase page file swap-in/out time as well as extend game load time / PC start time. In situations where physical memory is limited, it may as well affect gaming performance. ..

I see you are the ATI beta tester, do you have answers to the above questions?

 

[Ronin]

ATi Beta tester means he sees the drivers before they're released to the public (if I recall how that program works).

 

[beggerking]

To be a beta tester there are requirements. Since he is one, that means he is at least knowledgable to a level.

 

[RobertR1]

17mb of RAM = performance issues??

If your system is that pitiful, you have other things to worry about.

If the CCC bothers you that much, don't download it. You can simply load the drivers and use 3rd party tools to tweak the settings.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: beggerking
To be a beta tester there are requirements. Since he is one, that means he is at least knowledgable to a level.

Beta Tester Program
The Catalyst Beta Testing program is available to qualified and willing beta testers. This program will give testers the opportunity to test all four componenets of ATI's Catalyst suite.

You should not participate if you are planning on beta testing on a system with mission critical data.

Not all applications will be accepted. Participation is based on ability to report accurate feedback to ATI about any problems you have encountered with the beta drivers. You may be also asked to beta test fixes or new functionality. The goal of the beta program is to give you, the end user, a great opportunity to help us identify bugs as well as help us test bug fixes. As a beta tester you will not be able to distribute publically the code that ATI provides you.

CATALYST BETA TESTER APPLICATION

This form is to be filled for consideration as a Beta Tester for ATI?s CATALYST software suite. (CATALYST suite is made up of graphics drivers, Hydravision, Multimedia Center, and Remote Wonder Software).
General Information:
Name:
Email:
Telephone Number:
Age:
Gender:
Have you ever been a Beta tester before?
If yes, which products:
Why do you feel you should be a CATALYST Beta Tester?
System Information:
Is your product a laptop/notebook (Yes / No):
If yes please answer the following two questions:
(answer only if laptop) System Manufacturer:
(answer only if laptop) Model:
ATI Product Owned (i.e. Graphics card type):
Processor Type:
Processor Speed:
Number of Monitors you use:
System Ram:
Operating System:
Games you are currently playing:
What CATALYST products are you interested in testing? (Choose one or more of Drivers, Hydravision, Multimedia Center, Remote Wonder)
Do you understand that CATALYST beta testing should not be done on critical systems where data loss is an issue? (Yes or no)
By submitting this document you agree to the following:
1. All information on this form is accurate
2. If you are accepted as a tester, you will have to sign an non-disclosure and EULA agreement


Yeah, the application has all sorts of questions about knowledge. And the original disclaimer, too!

 

[rbV5]

ATi Beta tester means he sees the drivers before they're released to the public (if I recall how that program works).

Thats correct, and I'm not a programmer and I have a user/enthusiast level understanding of .Net. Beta Tester doesn't = ATI expert (and I never filled out an application like the one you posted LOL). Certainly I can't answer all of your questions with an informed answer enough to suit you jusdging by the thread posting, xtnight and Mattias99 have some good posts that I can't add much too, however:

1. I'm certain it doesn't sit there and do "nothing". 17MB is as accurate as the 70MB earlier, my CLI's <5MB with it sitting in the tray "doing nothing" and <10MB with it opened and the 3D preview running on the PC I'm sitting at currently. For sure I've seen much diiferent #'s there on different builds, and on the different PC's, and other users also report a variety of different resources used depending on their particular setup. The system tray icon requires some memory and perhaps some dynamic features like Catalyst AI, dynamic fan control, Overdrive ect as well as parts of the application that reside in memory to launch the application when needed likely.
2. Couldn't tell you why, how do they measure it if the Images don't show in task manager (just a Q?)
3. Disabled by killing CLI in task manager? I dunno my YPbPr is working fine after killing the CLI process, maybe I'm missunderstanding what you mean by disabling?

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: RobertR1
17mb of RAM = performance issues??

If your system is that pitiful, you have other things to worry about.

If the CCC bothers you that much, don't download it. You can simply load the drivers and use 3rd party tools to tweak the settings.

17 min, 70max. for 512mb system, its quite big.

at least 100mb of physical memory is reserved for windows system.. so you are left with 400mb.

70mb is quite a bit out of 400mb machine, don't you think? consider you still have game data, etc etc, antivirus etc etc you need to load..

Yes. As most people have already done in this thread.
Yes, my system is unfortunately pitiful.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Yeah, the application has all sorts of questions about knowledge. And the original disclaimer, too!

ahhh! my bad! I'm sorry..

my apologies Rvb5

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: rbV5

ATi Beta tester means he sees the drivers before they're released to the public (if I recall how that program works).

Thats correct, and I'm not a programmer and I have a user/enthusiast level understanding of .Net. Beta Tester doesn't = ATI expert (and I never filled out an application like the one you posted LOL). Certainly I can't answer all of your questions with an informed answer enough to suit you jusdging by the thread posting, xtnight and Mattias99 have some good posts that I can't add much too, however:

1. I'm certain it doesn't sit there and do "nothing". 17MB is as accurate as the 70MB earlier, my CLI's <5MB with it sitting in the tray "doing nothing" and <10MB with it opened and the 3D preview running on the PC I'm sitting at currently. For sure I've seen much diiferent #'s there on different builds, and on the different PC's, and other users also report a variety of different resources used depending on their particular setup. The system tray icon requires some memory and perhaps some dynamic features like Catalyst AI, dynamic fan control, Overdrive ect as well as parts of the application that reside in memory to launch the application when needed likely.
2. Couldn't tell you why, how do they measure it if the Images don't show in task manager (just a Q?)
3. Disabled by killing CLI in task manager? I dunno my YPbPr is working fine after killing the CLI process, maybe I'm missunderstanding what you mean by disabling?

Thanks for your input, and you have just proved to Mattias99 that indeed CCC will have impact on performance. Since there is something working in background , that means it will use memory that would have been allocated for better game performance.
how much performance impact depends on how much of that 17mb - 70mb is required to run, in addition to any memory that is required by CCC at runtime.

so in contrary to what Mattias99 said "no impact on performance" "only 17mb..."
The performance impact is indeed much more than that.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: RobertR1
17mb of RAM = performance issues??

If your system is that pitiful, you have other things to worry about.

If the CCC bothers you that much, don't download it. You can simply load the drivers and use 3rd party tools to tweak the settings.

17 min, 70max. for 512mb system, its quite big.

at least 100mb of physical memory is reserved for windows system.. so you are left with 400mb.

70mb is quite a bit out of 400mb machine, don't you think? consider you still have game data, etc etc, antivirus etc etc you need to load..

Yes. As most people have already done in this thread.
Yes, my system is unfortunately pitiful.

I do run CCC on a old slow rig with 256MB system memory and Duron900 XPsp2 with a 8500le....absolutely pitful and slow, and I don't enjoy it. Game performance as pitiful as it is, is virtually the same with or without CCC installed. It takes forever to load into windows and my daughter uses it for AIM and schoolwork. I don't have a better example than that, I question it makes much difference gaming on any rig myself based on my own experience.

 

[RobertR1]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: RobertR1
17mb of RAM = performance issues??

If your system is that pitiful, you have other things to worry about.

If the CCC bothers you that much, don't download it. You can simply load the drivers and use 3rd party tools to tweak the settings.

17 min, 70max. for 512mb system, its quite big.

at least 100mb of physical memory is reserved for windows system.. so you are left with 400mb.

70mb is quite a bit out of 400mb machine, don't you think? consider you still have game data, etc etc, antivirus etc etc you need to load..

Yes. As most people have already done in this thread.
Yes, my system is unfortunately pitiful.

So you're playing games with the CCC open in the backgroud?

Common sense would dictate that you would turn off excessive programs while gaming esp. if you are system limited. Then you're back down to 17mb.

For me, CCC open vs. CCC closed = less than 10mb of RAM. I'll take screenshots tonight if you like and when I'm done with the CCC, I CLOSE it because it does not need to be open when not in use. That's like opening 10ie windows in the backgroud and blaming MS for your ****** gaming performance.

Oh there are a few XP services you can disable along with XP system tweaks if RAM and system performance issues are that much of a concern to you.

 

[rbV5]

Thanks for your input, and you have just proved to Mattias99 that indeed CCC will have impact on performance. Since there is something working in background , that means it will use memory that would have been allocated for better game performance.

Gaming performance proof is in the benchmarks, not in your "theories" or my post, or Mattias's posts. Show me benches that prove your point, I've not seen it myself.