ATI once again beat by Nvidia.. now two generations behind!

[rbV5]

My point is if the 1800Xt can not be produced in quantitie then YES ATI IS two behind.. But your right, if they can produce in quantities then yes .. only one behind

Nvidias latest chip = G70
ATI's latest chip = r520

Same generation...get it?

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: jasonja
The R580 is not 3 generations out... it's 2 months out.

he means 3 generations from the last release that actually had availability.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

the 7800gt512 beats the 256gtx hands down and is a generation (albeit incrmental) above the gtx..

The 7800GTX-512 is the same G70 with a clock/memory overclock (with a massive fan to cool it) and increased framebuffer.

I guess that made the Radeon 9800, 9800 Pro & the 9800XT three different generations...but like you said, albeit incremental

 

[mlmcasual]

Good point, if that were exactly true..
The GTX512 is not exactly a true generation. perhaps I should phrase my words more carefully.. rather call it a "release offering"..

But BTW, the GTX512 is more not the same G70.. it is a Revised G70 with some actual core tweaks..

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: mlmcasual
Two generation, I'll clarify. im only counting what is available on the market. not available in "bigfoot sighting" quantities..

X1800XT sightings?

X1800XT sightings?

Personally I think the second one is the XT- it clearly needs more cooling?

 

[nts]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: mlmcasual
Two generation, I'll clarify. im only counting what is available on the market. not available in "bigfoot sighting" quantities..

X1800XT sightings?

X1800XT sightings?

Personally I think the second one is the XT- it clearly needs more cooling?

I was wondering when you were gonna show up and start trolling...

The X1800XT is currently available (unfortunate for you), the GTX-512 sold out its limited amount of cards and doesn't look like they'll get more anytime soon (I think I heard a week to 2 weeks before new ones are coming in).

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: mlmcasual
Good point, if that were exactly true..
The GTX512 is not exactly a true generation. perhaps I should phrase my words more carefully.. rather call it a "release offering"..

But BTW, the GTX512 is more not the same G70.. it is a Revised G70 with some actual core tweaks..

It is exactly true, the G70 core is still a G70 core no matter how "you" define it.

 

[Ronin]

Pssst.

There are a few key changes from the original 7800 GTX silicon that allow the 7800 GTX 512 to perform so highly. The 7800 GTX 512 still uses a 110nm process like the original 7800 GTX, but NVIDIA has tuned their fab process to speed up key data paths in the chip. These enhancements, while not altering the feature set in anyway, allow the chip to reach clock speeds of 550MHz (which is 120MHz faster than the original 7800 GTX). On top of changes in the silicon, the 7800 GTX 512 has gotten a PCB revision. And just in case anyone is wondering, the huge HSF solution is actually very quiet. NVIDIA is using a fan with larger blades that move a good volume of air without needing to run at super high RPMs. While it may look like an industrial sized leaf blower, it bark is certainly nothing compared to the bite this thing takes out of our performance tests.

Current 7800 GTX cards feature 8Mx32 GDDR3 with four chips on each side of the PCB. Most cards have a heat spreader on the back of the board, while some vendors have attached heatsinks. NVIDIA needed a better way to cool their RAM in order to hit the memory clock speeds they wanted. To this end the 7800 GTX 512 sees all of its RAM on the front of the PCB cooled by the very large heatsink previously employed on the Quadro FX 4500. Moving all the RAM to one side of the PCB may also have improved the routing to certain memory modules, which would also help increase attainable stable memory clock speeds. There are still only 8 modules total, as NVIDIA has also moved to higher density 16Mx32 GDDR3. The RAM used is also rated at 900MHz (1800MHz data rate), giving the stock memory clock speed of 1700MHz a little head room for vendors who like to overclock the cards they sell.

 

[Matt2]

Let's not forget the fact that X1800XT was 5 months late. So really, ATI is almost a generation behind in terms of time. This may not be crucial technologically, but monetarily, this is a big problem for them. How are they going to remedy this? Supposedly releasing the R580 in 2 months, destroying whatever chance they had to make money on R520. Personally, I think there are going to be some disspointed people come Jan/Feb when we have another paper launch.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: nts

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: mlmcasual
Two generation, I'll clarify. im only counting what is available on the market. not available in "bigfoot sighting" quantities..

X1800XT sightings?

X1800XT sightings?

Personally I think the second one is the XT- it clearly needs more cooling?

I was wondering when you were gonna show up and start trolling...

So you thought you'd join me at it and say it's justified because 'It's for ATI!"?

The X1800XT is currently available (unfortunate for you),

More like unfortunately for the poor guys who buy it and have to listen to that awful dustbuster as they game!

the GTX-512 sold out its limited amount of cards and doesn't look like they'll get more anytime soon (I think I heard a week to 2 weeks before new ones are coming in).

Hmmm. Available 3 days before launch and sold out 4 days after launch due to huge demand. Compared to available a month after paper launch. I see your point! (not)

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Ronin
Pssst.

There are a few key changes from the original 7800 GTX silicon that allow the 7800 GTX 512 to perform so highly. The 7800 GTX 512 still uses a 110nm process like the original 7800 GTX, but NVIDIA has tuned their fab process to speed up key data paths in the chip. These enhancements, while not altering the feature set in anyway, allow the chip to reach clock speeds of 550MHz (which is 120MHz faster than the original 7800 GTX). On top of changes in the silicon, the 7800 GTX 512 has gotten a PCB revision. And just in case anyone is wondering, the huge HSF solution is actually very quiet. NVIDIA is using a fan with larger blades that move a good volume of air without needing to run at super high RPMs. While it may look like an industrial sized leaf blower, it bark is certainly nothing compared to the bite this thing takes out of our performance tests.

Current 7800 GTX cards feature 8Mx32 GDDR3 with four chips on each side of the PCB. Most cards have a heat spreader on the back of the board, while some vendors have attached heatsinks. NVIDIA needed a better way to cool their RAM in order to hit the memory clock speeds they wanted. To this end the 7800 GTX 512 sees all of its RAM on the front of the PCB cooled by the very large heatsink previously employed on the Quadro FX 4500. Moving all the RAM to one side of the PCB may also have improved the routing to certain memory modules, which would also help increase attainable stable memory clock speeds. There are still only 8 modules total, as NVIDIA has also moved to higher density 16Mx32 GDDR3. The RAM used is also rated at 900MHz (1800MHz data rate), giving the stock memory clock speed of 1700MHz a little head room for vendors who like to overclock the cards they sell.

Psst, its still the same G70 feature set...same generation, G80 is their next generation chip, not the enhanced G70.

 

[Capt Caveman]

X1800XT not available? OP should have read a couple of threads down before posting:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1736828&enterthread=y

Rollo - the second pic is a wookie

 

[nts]

Originally posted by: Rollo
More like unfortunately for the poor guys who buy it and have to listen to that awful dustbuster as they game!

Wow still pushing that argument... I thought you were proven wrong already.

If you are so opposed to noise then how come you have a SLI system? The noise those cards must produce...

Hmmm. Available 3 days before launch and sold out 4 days after launch due to huge demand. Compared to available a month after paper launch. I see your point! (not)

The X1800XT was available 3 days before (Nov.2) ATi said they would be (Nov.5). Cards at launch, no, cards when they said would be available, yes.

Well atleast you dont have to wait a week to 2 weeks between limited batches of cards with the X1800.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Ronin
Pssst.

There are a few key changes from the original 7800 GTX silicon that allow the 7800 GTX 512 to perform so highly. The 7800 GTX 512 still uses a 110nm process like the original 7800 GTX, but NVIDIA has tuned their fab process to speed up key data paths in the chip. These enhancements, while not altering the feature set in anyway, allow the chip to reach clock speeds of 550MHz (which is 120MHz faster than the original 7800 GTX). On top of changes in the silicon, the 7800 GTX 512 has gotten a PCB revision. And just in case anyone is wondering, the huge HSF solution is actually very quiet. NVIDIA is using a fan with larger blades that move a good volume of air without needing to run at super high RPMs. While it may look like an industrial sized leaf blower, it bark is certainly nothing compared to the bite this thing takes out of our performance tests.

Current 7800 GTX cards feature 8Mx32 GDDR3 with four chips on each side of the PCB. Most cards have a heat spreader on the back of the board, while some vendors have attached heatsinks. NVIDIA needed a better way to cool their RAM in order to hit the memory clock speeds they wanted. To this end the 7800 GTX 512 sees all of its RAM on the front of the PCB cooled by the very large heatsink previously employed on the Quadro FX 4500. Moving all the RAM to one side of the PCB may also have improved the routing to certain memory modules, which would also help increase attainable stable memory clock speeds. There are still only 8 modules total, as NVIDIA has also moved to higher density 16Mx32 GDDR3. The RAM used is also rated at 900MHz (1800MHz data rate), giving the stock memory clock speed of 1700MHz a little head room for vendors who like to overclock the cards they sell.

Psst, its still the same G70 feature set...same generation, G80 is their next generation chip, not the enhanced G70.

The GTX512 isn't even really an enhanced GTX, more of a 9800Pro vs 9800XT thing IMO.
Not even like 9700 -> 9800 or even close to 5800 -> 5900.

 

[Killrose]

To the OP. Better late than never. Ati is late to the party, but thier GPU's perform pretty well with NV GPU's of this gen. I doubt we will see R580 anytime soon, unless ATi can't get Crossfire out. Both NV and ATI would no doubt like to sell you (2) cards instead of one.

 

[rbV5]

The GTX512 isn't even really an enhanced GTX, more of a 9800Pro vs 9800XT thing IMO.

I agree except you won't be able hack the 256MB 7800GTX to a GTX 512 like you could with some 256 MB 9800pro cards to a 9800XT.

Isn't a good deal of the performance benefit due to the faster ram on the GTX 512 anyway? (rather than the core itself?)

 

[bwall04]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
The GTX512 isn't even really an enhanced GTX, more of a 9800Pro vs 9800XT thing IMO.
Not even like 9700 -> 9800 or even close to 5800 -> 5900.

Exactly. It's GF2->GF2 Ultra, GF3->GF3 Ti500, etc.

 

[Turkey22]

The only problem here is the op doesn't understand what a graphic card generation is (basically just using the wrong term). ATI is behind, not only on hardware offerings, but drivers as well (they responded to the nvidia performance boost with one a few months later that wasnt as pronounced). I'm just happy that there is finally games utilizing all the new hardware. As much as my wallet likes staying a few generations behind (currently 9800pro) its encouraging to know that if I do upgrade to a 7800gt I'll get a serious performance boost.

ATI does have some work to do, but their not quite as far back as the title would lead most people to believe.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: rbV5

The GTX512 isn't even really an enhanced GTX, more of a 9800Pro vs 9800XT thing IMO.

I agree except you won't be able hack the 256MB 7800GTX to a GTX 512 like you could with some 256 MB 9800pro cards to a 9800XT.

Isn't a good deal of the performance benefit due to the faster ram on the GTX 512 anyway? (rather than the core itself?)

It's both RAM and GPU speed. 430 MHz to 550 MHz is a sizeable boost.

Not much of the improvement is due to the extra RAM though; see other fun-filled threads for proof of that .

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: rbV5

The GTX512 isn't even really an enhanced GTX, more of a 9800Pro vs 9800XT thing IMO.

I agree except you won't be able hack the 256MB 7800GTX to a GTX 512 like you could with some 256 MB 9800pro cards to a 9800XT.

Isn't a good deal of the performance benefit due to the faster ram on the GTX 512 anyway? (rather than the core itself?)

It's both RAM and GPU speed. 430 MHz to 550 MHz is a sizeable boost.

Not much of the improvement is due to the extra RAM though; see other fun-filled threads for proof of that .

meh, don't remind me of that

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: dug777
meh, don't remind me of that

That depends on what your definition of the word "remind" is .

 

[rbV5]

It's both RAM and GPU speed. 430 MHz to 550 MHz is a sizeable boost

LOL, no kidding

 

[dguy6789]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The X1800XT is currently available (unfortunate for you),
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"More like unfortunately for the poor guys who buy it and have to listen to that awful dustbuster as they game!"


Says the guy who traded his 9800 Pro for a 5800 Ultra. :roll:

 

[nts]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The X1800XT is currently available (unfortunate for you),
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"More like unfortunately for the poor guys who buy it and have to listen to that awful dustbuster as they game!"


Says the guy who traded his 9800 Pro for a 5800 Ultra. :roll:

QFT

LOL any more history to that? Why he bought the 9800 and traded it?

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The X1800XT is currently available (unfortunate for you),
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"More like unfortunately for the poor guys who buy it and have to listen to that awful dustbuster as they game!"


Says the guy who traded his 9800 Pro for a 5800 Ultra. :roll:

LOL