ATI once again beat by Nvidia.. now two generations behind!

[mlmcasual]

Seriously... wake up and smell the Molson Beer.

Im neither an ATI nor an Nvidia Fan boy.. Iv had both in the past and go for who has their @#$ together.. Look, for over a year now ATI has always been a step behind. Worse yet they have lost their credibility to even MAKE any claims. The x850pe? yea, I waited 6 months on a continually updated backorder that never happened.. all traced down to what ATI was promising it's vendors. So far the 1800xt is looking the same.. Just enough quantities to lay claim that it exist.. but not enough in market to make it an available product.

Heres the truth.. Ati has maintained this trend it is not able to produce consumer quantities of it's highest end card.. was true for the x850te and true now of the 1800xt.. even said, those cards were/are a generation behind the best of Nividia at the given times.. thus ATI has maintained for effective reasons to be TWO GENERATION BEHIND NVIDIA.. now we are talking 3 generations out to discuss the R580? Get real, why not say ATI is working on quantum GPUS that will dominate all.. There is fiction,whisfull thinking, promises, fanboyism, .. then there is reality. Reality is Nvidia has is and will continue to dominate Ati, unless Ati can get it's act together... THis isn't an opion based in wishful thinking.. this is reality today and the facts speak for themselves. The reality also is we NEED Ati to get it?s stuff together as competition is good for us the consumers.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Thanks for creating another useless thread troll.

 

[dug777]

a thread this blatantly trolling gets locked in 30 seconds flat in OT...

(not that you don't make some valid points OP )

 

[jasonja]

The R580 is not 3 generations out... it's 2 months out.

 

[Phantronius]

Wheres my Troll hunting gun?

 

[SPARTAN VI]

Odd how they're falling behind, but this isn't reflected in the stock market. Wasn't it last week ATI took the majority stock over nvidia? Something like 52% don't remember.

I don't know what those crazy canucks are doing. If they intentionally release their high-end cards in limited quantities they need a lesson in competition.

And no, I'm not an nvidia head. I previously owned a 9800pro and X800XL. Both were great cards.

 

[ddogg]

ok dude, we dont really need this kind of thread..but some of the points are valid!

 

[mlmcasual]

Since when is posting the truth trolling?

What, being critical isn't allowed here..

2 months out? For what may I ask? a paper promise?

 

[mlmcasual]

Im sorry, don't need what kind of thread? Im not looking for an argument.. I suppose I may anger some fanboys granted.. Im an outspoken consumer..

Really, I would encourage people to call facts for what they are without the hype.. that is my point.. Sincerly, I don't believe hype without proof should get a pass.. And was very discouraged to see some old ATI pattens of supply,demany,hype and promises transpiring again.. really the botom line as consumers, we need to hold em to a higher standard..

 

[Hikari]

I disagree, even if I did just buy a 7800GT instead of the 1800XL. They look fairly comparable in latest benches (but ATi better with high AA/AF), but their parts are priced too high.

 

[rbV5]

So far the 1800xt is looking the same.. Just enough quantities to lay claim that it exist.. but not enough in market to make it an available product.

I'm having no problem finding them in-stock today as low as $559, and I've only checked 3 online vendors.

Looks like they are late, but on the same generation as Nvidia's high end cards and they are available if you want to buy. Looks like a FUD thread on all counts...good going.

 

[ElFenix]

two generations behind eh? so you're saying they're not even as fast as a 5800? cuz last i heard, the 5800 got spanked.

or is two generations back the geforce 3/4 gen?

 

[mlmcasual]

I agree, the market trend in pricing is disturbing isn't it? 700$ for a high end card is disturbing.. but again, it ties back to supply and demand.. as Consumers we NEED the supply and competition of Both ATI, NVidia .. would you agree?

 

[mlmcasual]

Two generation, I'll clarify. im only counting what is available on the market. not available in "bigfoot sighting" quantities.. so yes.. just like the 850pe when it was "launched".. so to the trend is here in the 1800xt.. you cant count the 1800xt.. so must refer to xl.. which the TRUE Ati available product.. .. 7800 gtx beats the xl hands down.. the 7800gt512 beats the 256gtx hands down and is a generation (albeit incrmental) above the gtx.. Hence, yes we are talking two generations differnce between companies.. the gap that is..

Im looking at this from a realist perspective and the facts of the here and now..

 

[rbV5]

so to the trend is here in the 1800xt.. you cant count the 1800xt.. so must refer to xl.. which the TRUE Ati available product

X1800XT is avalable and in-stock, you certainly can count it.

 

[cirrhosis]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Thanks for creating another useless thread troll.

 

[mlmcasual]

"X1800XT is avalable and in-stock, you certainly can count it. "

and this would be where? and for how long? From what iv seen and heard.. there are no available quantities other then flashes on the net..

Thanks for creating another useless thread troll. Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

The pot calling the kettle black.. Im the one here that is making points and defending them.. and your point is what sir? to call me names?

 

[rbV5]

Im looking at this from a realist perspective and the facts of the here and now..

Then how about using some facts in your posts?

The X1000 series is the current ATI generation....the same gen as the 7800 series from nvidia no matter how you want to spin it.

The X1800XT is in-stock and available as well...her'e on for $559

Here's another for $679

 

[SPARTAN VI]

Yeah, completely missed that 2 gen claim. What makes you think they're 2 generations behind?

They have comparable cards in every gen. Radeon 9x00's vs Crappity GeForce FX's. Radeon Xx00's vs. GF 6x00's, went back and forth here (X850XT PE ftw?) this gen X1800XT vs. 7800GTX, both competitive in performance, but not price. Then there's the 7800GTX 512mb.

 

[Steelski]

Rollo,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Is that you. ?

But seriously. I dont think that he would even be so silly.

Your valid points smell like doggy stuff from where i am standing.........

what you were meant to say was that the 7800GT dosoent beat the X1800XL and the GTX gets beaten by the XT(granted the cards are differently priced because of the 256MB difference) and then the GTX 512 beats everything......in its pricerange, which is against nothing.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: jasonja
The R580 is not 3 generations out... it's 2 months out.

Thanks for the laugh

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Valid points, and maybe misguided on the generation game thing, but you need to turn the attitude/language down abit.

i agree though, ATI are letting their customers down by not providing enough of their high end parts, my friend waited on a X800XT PE for ages (as an upgrade to a 9700pro) while he was waiting i picked up a 6800GT and loved it. when he eventually got his card (from saphire who i assume are pretty tight with ATI) it was balls'd up from the start. artifacting every where. he had to reduce the clocks considerably to get it to work. they did however send him a X850XT as a replacement.....so :thumbsup: sapphire!

ATI arent 2 gens behind though....at the moment they are in the same generation, adaptive AA equates to transparency AA, SM3 equates to.....well SM3. not having a SM3 part untill now hasnt really hurt them. they do produce good products, they do produce fast products (high end here....x1600xt is weak.period.) and from what i can tell they actually have the edge in IQ.

Ati have a great team of people, the guys working on R520 may have run in to all sorts of difficulty, but they got the product out in the end (abeit late and in small numbers) meanwhile R580 hasnt been affected by any of it. R580 is on time......maybes it'll be nvidia whos a gen behind if R580 comes in january

both companies high end cards are priced insanely high.....not a bad thing if u have the money and really want it, but it is getting on the daft side.

it is my opinion though, that Nvidia are currently ontop. the 7 series launch was immaculate. widespread availability on the day, great pricing (for the most part) and it was a product that was uber fast and had good IQ in most games. Nvidia also have a credible dual card set up too. though ATI's X1800 crossfire implementation is looking to be a whole lot better than the previous misfire.

for the most part i get the sense that Nvidia are trying that much harder to make the customer smile. im sure ATI is trying, but its like they dont care....they just want to nab the fastest card on the market claim and be done with it. (obviously not the case...but thats what it feels like)

again this is MY OPINION.......Nvidia>Ati at this current point in time (and dont bother with stocks and crap coz any accountant gadge and excel can make it look like theyre on top....you just choose your numbers carefully)

 

[mlmcasual]

Originally posted by: Steelski
Rollo,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Is that you. ?

But seriously. I dont think that he would even be so silly.

Your valid points smell like doggy stuff from where i am standing.........

what you were meant to say was that the 7800GT dosoent beat the X1800XL and the GTX gets beaten by the XT(granted the cards are differently priced because of the 256MB difference) and then the GTX 512 beats everything......in its pricerange, which is against nothing.

No, the points are valid..


Looking at speed and availbility only.. pricing is a differnt issue..

7800GTX 512 > 1800XT = 7800 GTX > 1800 XL correct?


My point is if the 1800Xt can not be produced in quantitie then YES ATI IS two behind.. But your right, if they can produce in quantities then yes .. only one behind..

There ARE some (very few) online houses that have the 1800xt.. today.. we'll have to wait to see if this changes in the week to come.. my point is I believe it will not and go the route of hte x850PE..

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Phantronius
Wheres my Troll hunting gun?

Check your holster!

 

[jiffylube1024]

2-3 generations behind? Do you even know what you're talking about?

Are you using the "features" argument or are you using the "speed" argument? The X1800XL has been available for a month and has SM 3.0, fp blending, etc and the X1800XT is trickling into retail channels. The X1800XT performs a bit better than the 7800GTX but is slower than the just released 512MB 7800GTX, which is a limited quantity release at $650 MSRP.

If you're claiming the "speed" argument, then the X800XT was actually as fast as a 6800Ultra, maybe a bit faster; the X850XT PE was the fastest card for a short period of time before the 7800GTX came out.

Yes, ATI is slow to release cards at the top end, which hurts them, but to claim them 1-2 generations back is total raving lunacy.