ATI 5870 specs?

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: Azn
My practice? You accuse me of putting words in your mouth? Before that you called me a liar. If you are accusing me of something at least describe it. Without factual information I can't stop putting words in your mouth or what I lied to you about. All you've been doing is constantly changing the subject without answering a single thing. When it was your turn to answer you've changed your view however you deem fit.

I don't know why I even bother!
I am pretty sure that by now, everyone in AT forums can understand where you coming!

I 've finished my comment with:

"everyone can make his own conclusions!"

And you started your argument with:

"Everyone here aren't dumb."


WTF?

With whom you argue? (that the people here are not dumb!)
Did anyone wrote that the people are dumb?

No!

You were talking with me all this time, arguing constantly!

So You were trying to imply indirectly that I meant such a thing,
since you started arguing about it with me!

Do you forgot to whom you were replying?

Originally posted by: Azn
First you said the chip is going to be very big but now it isn't? That's all that I asked. I didn't ask what you thought about what die size and price has to be nor did I ask you why you thought RV870? won't hit 900mhz. You are just putting whole lot of information out there without saying much. That's what you call a strawman. You change the subject without answering the original question that I asked you. Either it's big or not. Not both whatever is convenient for you.

The sooner you understand that everything is relevant, the better for you!

Example:

HD4670 launched in Q3 2008 at 80$ with 144mm2 die size!

1)Is the HD4670's die size big or small?

It's small!


2)Is the HD4670's die size big or small, in order to incorporate this GPU in an IGP?

it's big! (Q3 2008)


Is it difficult to understand, that according to the question, the answer can be different?


In my prediction, I asked the question, and I gave the answer, your reply regarding my post came of cource after.

Did you ask the same question with me?

No!

You asked:

So, 300-315mm2 is so much bigger compared to RV770 256mm?

And you answered:

No, it is not


Before that, I asked in my post:

Is 300-315mm2 small enough in order for ATI to hit 900/950MHz in the standard configuration, without the use of decoupling transistors?

And I answered:

No it's big. (regarding this specific task)
The only way they can do it, is to use decoupling transistors!


(You don't even know that when the die size is increasing beyond a certain level the chances getting smaller in order to hit high frequensies like 900/950MHz for the standard configuration)


Did I say that, the certain level for ATI is 282mm2? (4890 die size)

No! (I said 350mm2)

Didn't I say that, It can be achieved with decoupling transistors?

Yes!

What did you did not understood and you brought the 4870-4890 example?


I don't even know why I bother!

Originally posted by: Azn
For instance when you said something about it's not about who is right or wrong? But then you say it is about who is right or wrong. It's quite silly even speaking to you because you don't mean a damn thing. It's okay when you are BS with your friends but not in general.

I already told you, that your comment offended me!
And this insult changed the data!

You said that this is the way you see it!
This, is your problem!

You offend people, and then you think that they should not respond!

Originally posted by: Azn
There's really no point even replying to rest of your post. Because it's silly and what's this about you being logical? No the logical thing would be to describe why you thought the chip would be big. Not spit out bunch of techno jargon without any proof.

The logical thing?
Without proof?

Like what I did, with your point regarding 8800GT / 5870 price correlation?

Can't you understand, that whoever read this part, knows exactly your level of logic?


Man, you and Logic got a divorce way back!

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: MODEL3
I don't know why I even bother!
I am pretty sure that by now, everyone in AT forums can understand where you coming!

I 've finished my comment with:

"everyone can make his own conclusions!"

And you started your argument with:

"Everyone here aren't dumb."


WTF?

With whom you argue? (that the people here are not dumb!)
Did anyone wrote that the people are dumb?

No!

You were talking with me all this time, arguing constantly!

So You were trying to imply indirectly that I meant such a thing,
since you started arguing about it with me!

Do you forgot to whom you were replying?

This still doesn't answer what I lied to you about or what words I've put in your mouth. You seem to have comprehension problems.

The sooner you understand that everything is relevant, the better for you!

Example:

HD4670 launched in Q3 2008 at 80$ with 144mm2 die size!

1)Is the HD4670's die size big or small?

It's small!


2)Is the HD4670's die size big or small, in order to incorporate this GPU in an IGP?

it's big! (Q3 2008)


Is it difficult to understand, that according to the question, the answer can be different?


In my prediction, I asked the question, and I gave the answer, your reply regarding my post came of cource after.

Did you ask the same question with me?

No!

You asked:

So, 300-315mm2 is so much bigger compared to RV770 256mm?

And you answered:

No, it is not


Before that, I asked in my post:

Is 300-315mm2 small enough in order for ATI to hit 900/950MHz in the standard configuration, without the use of decoupling transistors?

And I answered:

No it's big. (regarding this specific task)
The only way they can do it, is to use decoupling transistors!

So you are comparing a year old 4670 that's build for HDCP and then compare it to ATI's upcoming flag ship to differentiate why the chip is very big? Why didn't you compare it to onboard graphics instead? :roll:

Was that an attempt at logic or an epic fail?

If you want to compare die size you should be comparing it to modern day flagship GPU die size from with the last few years like G80, R600, GT200 or RV770. NOT 4670 with only fraction of the performance of flagship GPU that's built for mostly HDCP uses to save energy. After all we are discussing about upcoming ATI's flagship!

(You don't even know that when the die size is increasing beyond a certain level the chances getting smaller in order to hit high frequensies like 900/950MHz for the standard configuration)


Did I say that, the certain level for ATI is 282mm2? (4890 die size)

No! (I said 350mm2)

Didn't I say that, It can be achieved with decoupling transistors?

Yes!

What did you did not understood and you brought the 4870-4890 example?


I don't even know why I bother!

This is what you would call a strawman. Look up on the internet what strawman is. It clearly describes what you are doing by changing the subject without giving an answer to the original question.

I gave you a clear example about mhz and die size. In the case of 4890 which is 290mm and 4870 being 260mm. 4890 is able to clock 100mhz higher on the core. What does that tell you about your assessment about higher frequencies and die size? Why wasn't R300 clocked higher than measly 325mhz considering the die size of the chip is much smaller than RV790?

And no you said 300-315mm2 which I agreed with you. Now you want to talk about decoupling transistors? Another strawman. :disgust:

I already told you, that your comment offended me!
And this insult changed the data!

You said that this is the way you see it!
This, is your problem!

You offend people, and then you think that they should not respond!

So far you've made comments about my attitude and even calling me a liar which you haven't even revealed what I lied to you about. Your comments offend me but I don't agree with people then turn it around and say complete opposite however you deem fit. That's what I would call 2 face. These 2 face type of people in my eyes aren't to be trusted.

The logical thing?
Without proof?

Like what I did, with your point regarding 8800GT / 5870 price correlation?

Can't you understand, that whoever read this part, knows exactly your level of logic?


Man, you and Logic got a divorce way back!

Yup no logic. I asked you a simple question why you thought the chip was very big but in turn you've changed subject to subject and without even answering anything. That's why I made that comment about you going in circles trying to explain shit.

Yes absolutely no proof. Your point about price correlation was shattered with 8800gt that is 334mm which sold for $250 and the price isn't set in stone either so no rhetoric was needed by you. Finally NO I didn't even want to talk about price vs die size. That wasn't even what I was asking you about!

Considering you aren't the person who measure logic levels you aren't qualified to make that comment. You've done nothing but spit out bunch of rhetoric and using strawman tactics. BTW logic don't get divorces.