Athlon 5350 mini video Review

[mrmt]

lol @ the moving goal posts.

AM1 gives AMD entry into a huge market, around $100 billion annualy. And the fact that it is upgradable is one of many reasons that make AM1 very attractive to that market. Why? Because the upgrade chips are in the $50 range, and Beema appears to be well worth it. You can spend a bit more on anything to get a bit more performance, but as the market breakdown shows, it doesn't matter one iota. 38% of the market obviously don't want to spend more.

There are no moving goal posts. And why do you say Bay Trail is the only competition Kabini will face? Because Piesquared said so, or because Piesquared has any evidence supporting it? There is nothing preventing Intel to compete against Kabini with Core Celeron and Pentiums. Cost structure is at AMD's side on this one, but performance is with Intel. And upgradeability really, really favors Intel on this one. The board that supports a Celeron today can move to i7 in the future, which is *much* more meaningful than going from Jaguar powered to Puma powered.

And why do you think this is a $100 billion market? Intel has $50 billion in revenues for the ENTIRE x86 market, how can the bottom desktop market be a $100 million market when the target demographics is MPU companies?

 

[Erenhardt]

If someone is aiming at low power platform, he will most likely ignore possible upgrade path to 100 Watts i7 CPU. He would much rather have 'next gen' 20W SOC replacement (with HBM ) in the future

 

[TeknoBug]

Zbox nano AQ01 Plus (A4-5000)

Iddle : 8W
Videoplay : 10W
Video conversion : 15W
Gaming : 19W

Yeah my A4 5000 laptop is pretty sweet, especially when on battery it lasts 6+ hours on a full charge and when plugged in the meter outside barely even moves when everything else in the house is turned off. It has no problems playing Netflix, Google Play movies, other movies at 1080p and some games (like F1 2012).

 

[Abwx]

Yeah my A4 5000 laptop is pretty sweet, especially when on battery it lasts 6+ hours on a full charge and when plugged in the meter outside barely even moves when everything else in the house is turned off. It has no problems playing Netflix, Google Play movies, other movies at 1080p and some games (like F1 2012).

Since everything is not fully multithreaded it has quite some grunt left as softs are continously improved in this respect.

 

[piesquared]

There are no moving goal posts. And why do you say Bay Trail is the only competition Kabini will face? Because Piesquared said so, or because Piesquared has any evidence supporting it? There is nothing preventing Intel to compete against Kabini with Core Celeron and Pentiums. Cost structure is at AMD's side on this one, but performance is with Intel. And upgradeability really, really favors Intel on this one. The board that supports a Celeron today can move to i7 in the future, which is *much* more meaningful than going from Jaguar powered to Puma powered.

And why do you think this is a $100 billion market? Intel has $50 billion in revenues for the ENTIRE x86 market, how can the bottom desktop market be a $100 million market when the target demographics is MPU companies?

Naw, performance and price and perf/watt are with AMD on this one (even against 22nm FinFets. incredible!). As is upgradability given the cost and especially the cost for the target market. Also, when people see Pentium they think of the disastrous P4. intel's marketing blew another tire with that one lol.

 

[mrmt]

Naw, performance and price and perf/watt are with AMD on this one (even against 22nm FinFets. incredible!). As is upgradability given the cost and especially the cost for the target market. Also, when people see Pentium they think of the disastrous P4. intel's marketing blew another tire with that one lol.

Check the power consumption numbers posted by your friends again, they are rigged. And about brand equity, Intel is *much* more stronger than anything AMD. Intel something is far better than anything AMD you can think of.

It's been a while since AMD posted any kind of growth in their CPU division, let's see whether they can change that trend.

 

[Abwx]

Check the power consumption numbers posted by your friends again, they are rigged.

Lol , dare to post numbers that prove otherwise, actualy Kabini has better efficency than BT and thoses who understand how a semiconductor works know exactly why , others are left to wild guesses but for the skeptics here the power comsumption of the 5350 with a same conventional ATX 400W PSU less good than most pico PSUs but much much better than THGs doctored 850W PSU whose efficency at 30W is about 60%, here we have several sites who used a Be quiet! Straight Power 400W with a MSI AMI.

You have a 2C J1800 in the first graph for comparison and testimony of the wonderfull efficency of the much hyped Intel 22nm against the "sub par" (according to your usual fud) GF 28nm...

 

[Abwx]

For the record Pclab is an exemple of how to rig things since somewone talked about rigged numbers , here their graph comparing the iddle power of two systems that are supposed to be in the same segment :

The 5350 and J1900 have the same iddle power but to get thoses results Kabini was granted a FSP 550W PSU :

While both bay trails were coonnected to :

That is an Antec Case with a 90W PSU.

http://pclab.pl/art57195-4.html

 

[Abwx]

The 5350 paired with a 7790 at Semiaccurate :

we used the highest quality settings at 1080P that our system would remain playable. With the exception of CoH2 where we used the lowest settings possible, we were using medium to high graphics settings in all of our games.

http://semiaccurate.com/2014/04/16/adding-discrete-graphics-amds-am1-platform/

 

[DrMrLordX]

Asrock FM2A88X Extreme 4+

Hmm! Fascinating. Think that could be repeated on an Extreme 6+?

Back on topic: If there is any real dispute here as to what the socketed Kabini chips will face in the open market, just take a look at the prevailing patterns in OEM space. Think about what Intel chips OEMs will put in desktops/AiO PCs positioned against AMD desktops with socketed Kabini inside. That's where you'll see most of the chip sales in this segment. If I recall, there were plenty of posters here dismayed that Intel OEM machines had the "wrong" kind of chips in them.

Custom-built machines could easily host a higher TDP chip with a similar build cost and higher performance; however, OEMs have demonstrated that they are willing to pay a small premium to use a slower, lower-TDP processor in their low-end desktops to skim on cooling and power delivery infrastructure costs to improve margins. I expect socketed AM1 chips to face other processors with similar TDPs in OEM-space.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Well, you guys asked for it.

Newegg: (whiout offers or specials)

mITX:
Athlon 5350 = $65
MSI AM1I = $35
=$100

ASRock H81M-ITX = $60
Celeron G1820 = $50
=$110

mATX
Athlon 5350 = $65
GIGABYTE GA-AM1M-S2H = $35
=$100

MSI H81M-E33 $50
Celeron G1820 = $50
=$100

Athlon 5350 pros
-low power
-AES/AVX
-Mantle(?)

Celeron G1820 pros
-up to a i7 upgrade
-higher cpu perf
-higher igp perf
-full pci-e x16

Can you guys stop with the nonsence that they are not comparable? thanks

A much need perspective. :thumbsup:

Unless Intel halts production of Haswell based Celerons & Pentiums, I can't see how there is going to be much demand for any of these micro-processors on the desktop, from either AMD or Intel.

Arguments to the contrary strike me as extreme wishful thinking.

 

[Erenhardt]

550W PSU

90W PSU

http://pclab.pl/art57179-2.html
>10% less power consumption on small PSU

 

[Soulbreaker]

I'd really like to build a media center/browsing/light weight tasks machine with this to use instead of my main pc I'd turn on only for gaming, but the psu is what really kills my intention since it costs almost more than the entire setup lol. Do you think it'll take much before we see more appealing offers?

 

[Abwx]

I'd really like to build a media center/browsing/light weight tasks machine with this to use instead of my main pc I'd turn on only for gaming, but the psu is what really kills my intention since it costs almost more than the entire setup lol. Do you think it'll take much before we see more appealing offers?

Best is to use an Asrock AM1H ITX , pricier but it is compensated by its ability to use a 50-65W 19V DC adapter as supply, not counting a few other desirable features compared to the 35$ MBs, check in this thread :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2378369

 

[Soulbreaker]

Best is to use an Asrock AM1H ITX , pricier but it is compensated by its ability to use a 50-65W 19V DC adapter as supply, not counting a few other desirable features compared to the 35$ MBs, check in this thread :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2378369

Thanks for the suggestion. Could you link a psu like the one you mentioned? In my country (Italy) they cost about 70$ or more. Maybe I should look for them in some chinese shop around here. I don't feel like betting on this type of socket too much, I'm sure in a year or less I'll upgrade it once again for something more efficient thanks to the savings I made in the bill and noone really knows whats coming next at this point, but that kind of psu could last for a while indeed, so it could make sense.

Edit: ok, no need. Found it. Thanks again.

 

[Shivansps]

Those BGA APUs are for the embedded segment, AM1 APUs are for the consumer market.



That is because there is NO chipset in the motherboard, the Kabini and ATOMs are SoCs, the motherboard only has the I/O connections, that is the reason they are cheap.



Its not about the TDP, it is the specifically segment Intel and AMD are targeting with those Kabinis and ATOMs. They targeting a different market than Haswell/Trinity/Richland. They may be some of the High-End products from the Kabini/ATOM SKUs that overlap the cheapest Trinity/Richland/Haswell SKUs but that doesnt mean they targeting the same segment.

35W TDPs Haswell Celerons are in the same segment.

I understand all of that, nevertheless, no one cares for what are they intended, we decide what to use in each sector, what i gona do first, as well as everyone, is to look at prices to consider the avalible options, them the pro and cons of every one of them according to needs.

If im making a desktop matx pc, who cares if its pasive or not? who cares about 20W? Price/Performance its the winner here.

If im making a mITX pc thats still holds true, while the prices might go a little in favor of AM1, its not enoght.

If i need to make a pc as cheapest as possible, ill probably go with a Sempron 3850, that still feels like the people buying C-50s, its an option, but not really a good idea.

If i need to make a HTPC i gona go for either:
A) a BT-D, why? because BT-D is passive, thats is a big thing, and its enoght for multimedia usage.
B) 7850K, why? to enable basic gaming
C) Haswell+dgpu, G1820+750TI is a great option for this, 750K as a option.
D) Core I3, software playback.
E) Celeron/Pentium/I3 passive

What even the point of going for a Kabini here? even considering that it uses less power than BT-D(and its hard to belive and still may not enoght to be worthwhile), ill need to spend extra money in making it passive, for what? BT-D can do the exact same thing for less money, you are not gona tell me someone really plans to do gaming in those things on a +32" TV running at resolutions of 720p or less.
Also, the G1820 can do it even better for same money and a bit of extra Ws.

Im not saying no one gona use it, there is always someone that will need something very specific.

About the upgradeability of AM1, no matter what AMD releases, the main problems gona still be there, Single Channel crippling the IGP, PCI-E limited to x4 2.0 max crippling dGPU performance, only 2 satas provided by SoC, active cooling, cheap MB and expensive CPU.... ill say there is not even a point in a socket, especially about that last thing.

I do see a great potentials of Semprons/AM1 sales, but no much else.

 

[Abwx]

What even the point of going for a Kabini here? even considering that it uses less power than BT-D(and its hard to belive and still may not enoght to be worthwhile), ill need to spend extra money in making it passive, for what? BT-D can do the exact same thing for less money, you are not gona tell me someone really plans to do gaming in those things on a +32" TV running at resolutions of 720p or less.

With passive cooling BT cant sustain the perfs you see in the benches as once the max temp is reached TDP will be limited to 10W while the numbers you see here and there are such thanks to 17-18W real TDP when the cooling system thermal inertia and temperature allow it.

 

[Shivansps]

I do know that, but no one gona buy one to run prime95+furmark 24/7.
Also remember that each OEM uses different coolers.

 

[Abwx]

Then you can passively cool any of theses chips, assuming you use the same cooler and set the same max temp in the bios the two chips will throttle at the same TDP and the best performing chip will be the one that has actualy the real best perf/watt ratio, would be interesting to test such set ups with such conditions.

 

[Sweepr]

I do know that, but no one gona buy one to run prime95+furmark 24/7.
Also remember that each OEM uses different coolers.

Here's some numbers from the other thread (thanks to bgt). Idle to Load (Furmark+Prime95) difference is 30W (Athlon 5350).

idle=8W(i3-3140=14W)
P95=31W(i3-3140=69W)
P95+furmark=38W(i3-4130=83W)

I wouldn't try passive cooling with one of those.

Also from the same user:
Pentium G3220 system: 18W idle and 71W Furmark+Prime95. Better performance (CPU tests and iGPU gaming) and still quite efficient.

 

[strata8]

I wouldn't try passive cooling with one of those.

Sure you could. The passive cooling solutions on the Bay Trail boards would probably considered failures if Prime95 and Furmark were the type of applications they had to deal with.

More interesting would be the numbers while encoding a video or playing a game. From what I've seen it's all under 30W.

 

[bgt]

Sure you could. The passive cooling solutions on the Bay Trail boards would probably considered failures if Prime95 and Furmark were the type of applications they had to deal with. More interesting would be the numbers while encoding a video or playing a game. From what I've seen it's all under 30W.

When using p95 the cooler increases the fan speed from zero to some hundreds rpm. Still........dead quiet(have to put my ear on the housing to hear it run). I use a very small housing(MS-Tech CI57) http://www.ms-tech.de/ger/index.php/product/detail/pdcid/79/pdid/287so there is not a lot of airflow. And the stability on the small 12V/3A adapter is amazing. This is all it will use so why use a bigger psu. It never consumes >38W(=worst case). Will use it for my main system for a while(when just doing mail and surfing). Why use an i7-4770K for that? Wow, what a difference with my FX8350 idle consumption.....................

12V/3A adapter:
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/5-5mm-X-2-1mm-EU-12V-3A-power-supply-AC-DC-adapter-for-RGB-LED-Strip-/371042456242?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5663da92b2

 

[Shivansps]

About Power of Kabini vs BT-D, the STH guys tested them with a PICO PSU.

5350
http://www.servethehome.com/Workstation-detail/amd-athlon-5350-linux-benchmarks-review/

3850
http://www.servethehome.com/Workstation-detail/amd-sempron-3850-benchmarks-review-quad-core-am1-soc/

J1900
http://www.servethehome.com/Server-detail/supermicro-x10sba-review/

They are petty much the same and the J1900 board it way more loaded with stuff, by far.
It also shows the J1900 running with a joke heat sink and not getting too hot.

 

[Abwx]

It also shows the J1900 running with a joke heat sink and not getting too hot.

You could as well remove the heatsink wings and just keep the plate and it wont run any hotter, just throttle more to keep the temperature at the setted value....

 

[Shivansps]

at 60°C? no way, every Intel CPUs throttle back after 80°C, generally around 85°C, mobile and desktop, they all do the same.

But thats the fail safe throttle by temperature, there is another throttle by calculated TDP, the actual TDP value is read as "package power" by Open hardware monitor, the max value is generally hidden in bios but its easy to figure out.
That is known to be abused by OEM to put cheaper heat sinks/coolers, affecting the turbos.