Atheists face death in 13 Muslim countries

[Cerpin Taxt]

Could be a Santa Clause, Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy as well. May want to hope on board the IF train and believe in them as well.

I know there's a tooth fairy because I got money under my pillow when I was a kid.

See? Evidence.

 

[Retro Rob]

Look, anyone who has been here a while realizes you're just a little, shall we say, "touched," so I don't expect a discussion with you to be fruitful. Alas, I shall simply offer this response to the non-answer you cited, lest anyone think I lacked one.

Nothing in that article provides a chapter and verse explanation for the slaying of the Amalekites infants, which is what I requested in support of the claim I was challenging. Saying "he did it because he has a right to" is not an explanation. Saying "we all sin" is not an explanation. It's question begging.

Spittledip claimed that the Bible gave an explanation for every killing described in the Bible, and I want a citation of that explanation for the killing of the Amalekite infants as a demonstration of that claim's validity.

And please, citing Matt Slick of all people is really scraping the bottom of the barrel, and take that from someone who has met him in person on several occasions, and appeared on his internet radio show (albeit, many years ago).

You're grasping at straws hanging on to this "infants" deal as if that somehow validates this evil and murderous god you're imagining, so let me remedy this for you:

Ex 20:5-6 shows that subsequent generations of Israelites would have to endure the penalty of disobedient forefathers (i.e, wandering 40 years in the wilderness would affect later generations). In other words, it was clear that children would suffer due to the ACTIONS OF THEIR PARENTS.

In the case of the Amalekites, since the parents of those infants were apparently evil enough for God to destroy, they were legally and morally responsible for those "infants", and to say those Amalekites knew nothing about Yahweh is sheer ignorance. They knew, ignored, and unfortunately those infants had to die as a result of the actions, or inactions, of their parents.

It's really no different than me ignoring a Tornado evacuation, and my failure to act caused the death of myself and infant children.

Should I blame the Tornado for the death of my infants? 🙄

I frankly don't give a crap if you reject this explanation (which I know you will) as I put it here for the possible benefit of others.

 

[sandorski]

You're grasping at straws hanging on to this "infants" deal as if that somehow validates this evil and murderous god you're imagining, so let me remedy this for you:

Ex 20:5-6 shows that subsequent generations of Israelites would have to endure the penalty of disobedient forefathers (i.e, wandering 40 years in the wilderness would affect later generations). In other words, it was clear that children would suffer due to the ACTIONS OF THEIR PARENTS.

In the case of the Amalekites, since the parents of those infants were apparently evil enough for God to destroy, they were legally and morally responsible for those "infants", and to say those Amalekites knew nothing about Yahweh is sheer ignorance. They knew, ignored, and unfortunately those infants had to die as a result of the actions, or inactions, of their parents.

It's really no different than me ignoring a Tornado warning, and my failure to act caused the death of myself and infant children.

Should I blame the Tornado for the death of my infants? 🙄

I frankly don't give a crap if you reject this explanation (which I know you will) as I put it here for the possible benefit of others.

So killing children and babies is perfectly Moral. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

You are cordially invited to supply any evidence which you believe is persuasive. Lacking that, you're just blathering.

I have learned not to give treats to a stupid yapping chihuahua. All it does is encourage more annoying yaps.

 

[spittledip]

I have learned not to give treats to a stupid yapping chihuahua. All it does is encourage more annoying yaps.

Ignore works better 😉

 

[spittledip]

So killing children and babies is perfectly Moral. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

God does not fall under any moral code. His character is where the moral code originates.

As a way to break it down for you:

I know that you know that a single act is not taken in isolation when considering morality. Take for example the "stealing bread to feed your family" scenario, or if you want an illustration from the Bible, when Rahab lied to protect the spys from Israel.. or prescribing the death penalty for murder. Now you or I might not agree that the examples represent a moral good- not the point. The point is that morality is more than just the consideration of an act in and of itself. This is why we have degrees of murder and "self defense" pleas and so on. This is the same case for God, except the consideration is that God is above committing an immoral act b/c He is perfect and holy. The acts that you say are "immoral" are actually the complete opposite- He is meting out justice against individuals and entire nations for their immorality.

People like to complain about evil in the world, but if they read about God handling evil in the world, they don't like it b/c it does not fit their definition of what is evil. God is in a lose-lose situation with some people. Not that it keeps Him up at night or anything.

 

[sandorski]

God does not fall under any moral code. His character is where the moral code originates.

As a way to break it down for you:

I know that you know that a single act is not taken in isolation when considering morality. Take for example the "stealing bread to feed your family" scenario, or if you want an illustration from the Bible, when Rahab lied to protect the spys from Israel.. or prescribing the death penalty for murder. Now you or I might not agree that the examples represent a moral good- not the point. The point is that morality is more than just the consideration of an act in and of itself. This is why we have degrees of murder and "self defense" pleas and so on. This is the same case for God, except the consideration is that God is above committing an immoral act b/c He is perfect and holy. The acts that you say are "immoral" are actually the complete opposite- He is meting out justice against individuals and entire nations for their immorality.

People like to complain about evil in the world, but if they read about God handling evil in the world, they don't like it b/c it does not fit their definition of what is evil. God is in a lose-lose situation with some people. Not that it keeps Him up at night or anything.

Evil is as Evil does and "God" does Evil. Killing Children and Babies is not Justice, no matter who "god" is alleged to be. What we got here is merely Man trying to justify Genocide by pinning it on the command of a god.

In Israel's defence, they were not the only people to have ever done such a thing. It was just a common practice at that period in history.

 

[Moonbeam]

Please post your evidence that your god exists and that Christ was divine.

I'll wait.

If you do you'll prove him right by becoming immortal.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Evil is as Evil does and "God" does Evil. Killing Children and Babies is not Justice, no matter who "god" is alleged to be. What we got here is merely Man trying to justify Genocide by pinning it on the command of a god.

That's your opinion. My opinion is that your opinion is wrong.

 

[Moonbeam]

Evil is as Evil does and "God" does Evil. Killing Children and Babies is not Justice, no matter who "god" is alleged to be. What we got here is merely Man trying to justify Genocide by pinning it on the command of a god.

In Israel's defence, they were not the only people to have ever done such a thing. It was just a common practice at that period in history.

So you don't think that what I posted in #154 makes sense, the Christian belief in a god that is evil proves that such a god can't be God, and that the obviousness of that fact means that because you don't believe in a god that can't exist is just plain elementary? So you don't believe in a god that can't exist because he wouldn't be God if he did. What kind of non-belief is that. So the god that the religious believe in doesn't exist but he keeps popping up in this form or that for thousands of years and maybe you even walked along with him on an acid trip. Why does this happen. Why do some folk know they are not alone? Seems to me folk have experiences that transform their life for the better and the words they use about it are related to whatever language it is they have learned to speak of such things. For you it may be one thing but for me it's the sound of crickets. I just don't know how it is that that's exactly how God sounds. Crickets and flowing echoes and dragons in seven places. You might here him here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY1pcEtHI_w

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I have learned not to give treats to a stupid yapping chihuahua. All it does is encourage more annoying yaps.

Yes, yes... bluff and bluster till your little heart is content. Everyone can see that where the rubber meets the road, your position leaves the skeptics wanting for real substance.

Ignore works better 😉

Yes, reinforce your own personal mind trap. That's always a good idea. :whiste:

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You're grasping at straws hanging on to this "infants" deal as if that somehow validates this evil and murderous god you're imagining, so let me remedy this for you:

So baby killers are not evil to Christians. Baby killing is A-OK. Got it.

Ex 20:5-6 shows that subsequent generations of Israelites would have to endure the penalty of disobedient forefathers (i.e, wandering 40 years in the wilderness would affect later generations). In other words, it was clear that children would suffer due to the ACTIONS OF THEIR PARENTS.

"Have to"? What does this mean? "Have to"? Are we not talking about your God, which you believe to be limitless in his power? What does "have to" mean for an omnipotent being?

That is of course apart from the fact that the bible is inconsistent on this very subject (Duet 24:16, Eze 18:20, 2 Kings 14:16).

And this is still apart from the fact you're talking about Israelites and we're talking about Amalekites.

In the case of the Amalekites, since the parents of those infants were apparently evil enough for God to destroy, they were legally and morally responsible for those "infants", and to say those Amalekites knew nothing about Yahweh is sheer ignorance. They knew, ignored, and unfortunately those infants had to die as a result of the actions, or inactions, of their parents.

And what justice is that? THAT is "holy" justice for a Christian? Really? And again you're on about this "had to," like it was totally beyond God's ability to do otherwise with those infants. He just couldn't do anything else but slay a shit-ton of babies. Let's worship that guy. 🙄

It's really no different than me ignoring a Tornado evacuation, and my failure to act caused the death of myself and infant children.

Should I blame the Tornado for the death of my infants? 🙄

If the tornado was an intentional being, with unlimited powers and every opportunity not to kill the infants at its own discretion, then yes, you should blame the tornado. What a stupid, stupid analogy.

I frankly don't give a crap if you reject this explanation (which I know you will) as I put it here for the possible benefit of others.

You appear to think your God is a mindless weather system. Are you sure that's the story you want to hang your hat on?

 

[bradly1101]

The obvious answer to me then that God might rationally exist is the proof offered by some of the religious that rationally, the god they believe in can't reasonably exist.

I think many people feel that a belief in a God assists them in feeling humble, so many call Him a 'higher power.' He's a he because men used to have all the power though. Would God have wanted that? It didn't make sense to me.

I had to take a detour from the many teachings of who God was (they were too contradictory) to find my higher power. I imagined the love between me and my beau. That love is a higher power than either of our love alone. So to me love is God, and God is love.

God brings me happiness, not commandments.

So I'm not sure a belief in God or a higher power is so black and white.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Yes, yes... bluff and bluster till your little heart is content. Everyone can see that where the rubber meets the road, your position leaves the skeptics wanting for real substance.
Yes, reinforce your own personal mind trap. That's always a good idea. :whiste:

The little chihuahua keeps on yapping. I think he wants treats, but he's stupid and annoying, so he doesn't get treats.

 

[Retro Rob]

So baby killers are not evil to Christians. Baby killing is A-OK. Got it.

{snip}

My goal is not to win an argument, but your constant and liberal usage of "children" and "infants" is nothing more than appeals to emotion, and betrays a deep, profound ignorance of the subject to the point where you'd have to resort to such fallacies to distract from the underlying fact that parents are/were responsible for their children/infants.

Secondly, billions of Christians obviously know about this, and still worship this "evil God", which could possibly mean they understand or either accept the reasons why those had to happen.

Thirdly, so what? You are obviously under no obligation to worship anything, or any body.

 

[sandorski]

My goal is not to win an argument, but your constant and liberal usage of "children" and "infants" is nothing more than appeals to emotion, and betrays a deep, profound ignorance of the subject to the point where you'd have to resort to such fallacies to distract from the underlying fact that parents are/were responsible for their children/infants.

Secondly, billions of Christians obviously know about this, and still worship this "evil God", which could possibly mean they understand or either accept the reasons why those had to happen.

Thirdly, so what? You are obviously under no obligation to worship anything, or any body.

That's the most disturbing part.

 

[soulcougher73]

The little chihuahua keeps on yapping. I think he wants treats, but he's stupid and annoying, so he doesn't get treats.

Why do you keep referring to yourself in the thrid person?

 

[shadow9d9]

Let me ask you an honest question: If there is no evidence either way, how is your view "reason" and theirs, not?

If there is no evidence either way, then the only reasonable position is "I don't know".

Lack of evidence to begin with is proof that something doesn't exist.

The default state is nothing. If there is literally zero evidence that something exists, then there is no reason to believe it in the first place aside from wishful thinking. There will NEVER be evidence that something DOESN'T exist by definition, which is why you can't prove a negative.

 

[Retro Rob]

That's the most disturbing part.

No, what's disturbing is how you and Cerpin Taxt are obsessed with what happened to the "children", "infants", and "babies" because you well know that will invoke an emotional response from your audience.

You're not going to find many persons willing to defend the killings of children, babies, infants as regards to the Bible (even if they WANT to) and you both are well-aware of that, so your frequent and liberal reference to "children" thus becomes a thought-terminating cliche'. 🙄

 

[ThinClient]

No, what's disturbing is how you and Cerpin Taxt are obsessed with what happened to the "children", "infants", and "babies" because you well know that will invoke an emotional response from your audience.

You're not going to find many persons willing to defend the killings of children, babies, infants as regards to the Bible (even if they WANT to) and you both are well-aware of that, so your frequent and liberal reference to "children" thus becomes a thought-terminating cliche'. 🙄

So why do you still choose to worship a god who kills innocent women and children, destroys entire cities, bids parents KILL their children if they mouth off, bids abraham to KILL his son to see if he's loyal, and tells his followers like David to commit genocide?

 

[Texashiker]

But this... this is simply horrifying.

Horrifying that a group of people will stand up for their beliefs?

The reason haters of GOD are winning against Christians, Christians do not kill atheists. We tried this whole mutual respect and for the most part it does not work.

Atheists will lose against Islam, as Islam does not do the mutual respect thing.

Maybe Christian need to go back to what they did in the middle ages. Do not accept Christianity, you and your family are thrown down a well head first. Or put all the GOD haters in a barn and set the barn on fire.

 

[ThinClient]

Horrifying that a group of people will stand up for their beliefs?

The reason haters of GOD are winning against Christians, Christians do not kill atheists. We tried this whole mutual respect and for the most part it does not work.

Atheists will lose against Islam, as Islam does not do the mutual respect thing.

Maybe Christian need to go back to what they did in the middle ages. Do not accept Christianity, you and your family are thrown down a well head first. Or put all the GOD haters in a barn and set the barn on fire.

Wow, you're advocating the murder of people who don't believe what you believe.

What a shit-eating bigot you are.

 

[Retro Rob]

Lack of evidence to begin with is proof that something doesn't exist.

Argument from ignorance. Try again. 🙄

 

[Texashiker]

Wow, you're advocating the murder of people who don't believe what you believe.

What a shit-eating bigot you are.

Negative I am not advocating murder. What we are seeing is what a lack of respect does.

Rather than leaving christians alone atheist feel the need to push their issues.

Islam is not tolerant like christians.

There was once a time when christians would have thrown atheist down a well. But those times no longer exist.

 

[ThinClient]

Argument from ignorance. Try again. 🙄

He's only sorta right.

The burden of evidence rests on the shoulders of those making the positive claim.

If you make a positive claim and bring zero evidence to the table, then get the fuck out and your claim is bullshit.