Atheists Call 9-11 Memorial Cross "Grossly Offensive"

[Darwin333]

Or how about the idea that all of spacetime exists, there isn't one "now" that the past and the future is another's "now", and equally real as my "Now".

From what I/we understand about time, it isn't a "constant", at least how I understand it. I do know that our perception of time is very relative.

Sort of like when you look at other galaxies through a telescope, you are quite literally looking back in time because the image you see is over 10 million years old, or more specifically you are looking at the galaxy as it was 10 million years ago. The entire galaxy could have gotten sucked up by a giant space vacuum in the last few years for all we know and can tell.

 

[Retro Rob]

We should ALL embrace skepticism. In general it prevents us from being overly gullible and being manipulated into doing stupid shit.

No, it's defined as having doubts.... You'd end up doubting something by default before even considering evidence. Gullibility is the other extreme.

How is that a good thing, either way? Life is not a conspiracy -- there's no need to doubt and negatively question everything...

I think it creates too strong a bias, either way, before one even takes evidence into consideration.

 

[Darwin333]

I don't think I said Atheists don't give, but generally, they seem more concerned with suing people and are dedicated to Separating Church and State. I think their anti-religious zealotry usurps their community service, and many non-profits ask for help separating Church and State.

Why would their "zealotry" at ensuring the separation of church and state, per the US constitution, usurp their charitable work? And again, the only possible reason I can think of them to organize is for the sole purpose of ensuring the 1st amendment is used equally. Beyond that WTF do they have to organize for?

As far as what they seem to you, read the above. I haven't sued a single person yet I give a lot of money and a LOT of my time to Children's hospital, which would you say that I am more interested in? Since I really like the cause that I am currently donating to, helping children with horrible diseases, why in the world would I look for an atheist org. to give my money to instead? Just so people like you can give us/me "credit"? Frankly I don't do it for any sort of credit or recognition so that is meaningless to me. Every other atheist I know, save for 1 cheap bastard and 1 poor sap in a bad financial spot, does the exact same thing with the charity of their choice. Its how I got involved with Habitat for Humanity, I was invited by an atheist because they needed some help with something I specialize in. We didn't go as "atheists", we went as human beings helping other human beings.

I agree about not needing an organization, but religious organizations are organized in this fashion to where everything is accounted for. It's just the nature of religion to handle things this way -- together, as a group.

Yes, religion does do a lot of good work. That "together, as a group" thing has and does do some bad things as well. Nature of the beast I guess.

This is the nature of how they work, so naturally, they donate in groups, preach in groups, etc.

Most of the money my Christian friends donate to their church does very little "good" work. Sorry but I don't consider getting a huge golden tabernacle or some uber fancy cross as "good work". Granted those same people often donate to other charities in which the majority of the money does go to good.

I personally get irritated if they're trying to do this for publicity reasons because it's not genuine as it should be. But I am more inclined to believe the recognition is just a natural consequence of being out there and helping out.

I totally agree with the first sentence. Not quite sure about the 2nd...

 

[Retro Rob]

Most of the money my Christian friends donate to their church does very little "good" work. Sorry but I don't consider getting a huge golden tabernacle or some uber fancy cross as "good work". Granted those same people often donate to other charities in which the majority of the money does go to good.

I skipped to this because thinking about it, I can't help BUT to agree.

I think that all religions large enough DO need larger facilites for Conventions or what have you, but I've seen plenty just stuipidly large cathedrals, and some large statues and other expensive items.

I don't see the need for these things (large crosses and statues) to worship a God who is invisible, but each to their own.

I totally agree with the first sentence. Not quite sure about the 2nd

The second sentence was designed to explain that organizations are bound to get some sort of public praise just by being out there. Whether or they accept it is another story.

 

[sandorski]

No, it's defined as having doubts.... You'd end up doubting something by default before even considering evidence. Gullibility is the other extreme.

How is that a good thing, either way? Life is not a conspiracy -- there's no need to doubt and negatively question everything...

I think it creates too strong a bias, either way, before one even takes evidence into consideration.

There's a huge difference between Doubt and Conspiracy.

 

[Retro Rob]

There's a huge difference between Doubt and Conspiracy.

Yes, but "doubting" things by default can lead to that mindset. For instance, if you doubt the Biblical Jesus, you automatically assume someone's hiding some controversial information about him since you won't find it in the Bible. Authors make a killing selling books designed to exploit that "doubt".

OTOH, many scientific advances have been made by doubting things, but they just didn't doubt for the sake of it as Darwin seemed to suggest. They has reason, perhaps, based on observable tests to formulate other conclusions.

 

[sandorski]

Yes, but "doubting" things by default can lead to that mindset. For instance, if you doubt the Biblical Jesus, you automatically assume someone's hiding some controversial information about him since you won't find it in the Bible. Authors make a killing selling books designed to exploit that "doubt".

OTOH, many scientific advances have been made by doubting things, but they just didn't doubt for the sake of it as Darwin seemed to suggest. They has reason, perhaps, based on observable tests to formulate other conclusions.

You should doubt any Claim, until Evidence supporting it has been offered.

 

[ThinClient]

Now I see you're nothing more than a bigoted jackass.

Why does it matter why someone is motivated to do something? As long as they do it, right?

Actually, it does matter.

Intentions are everything.

That's why we send people to jail for accidentally killing other people and we hook them up to electrodes and fry their skin off and their eyes heat up and explode and bleed down their cheeks under the power of the current when they premeditate the murder.

If someone does something nice, the "something nice" is a superficial assessment. It's not "nice" if they do it begrudgingly because their god told them they have to. They're still ROTTEN people on the inside and their having done a nice thing is diminished by that inner poison.

Motivations and intentions are everything.

 

[Retro Rob]

Actually, it does matter.

Intentions are everything.

That's why we send people to jail for accidentally killing other people and we hook them up to electrodes and fry their skin off and their eyes heat up and explode and bleed down their cheeks under the power of the current when they premeditate the murder.

If someone does something nice, the "something nice" is a superficial assessment. It's not "nice" if they do it begrudgingly because their god told them they have to. They're still ROTTEN people on the inside and their having done a nice thing is diminished by that inner poison.

Motivations and intentions are everything.

You simply don't seem to grasp this simple concept...you don't know WHY people are doing what they do... you're drawing immature and quite frankly, childish and bigoted assumptions about religious people who give for reasons only known to them. 🙄

We can remedy this situation.... if you ever have to accept assistance from a total stranger because you are stranded on the side of the road, or if volunteers are willing to fix your roof after a tornado, tell them, before they begin to help you, that if they're doing this for "God", or to get into heaven, you don't want their "ROTTEN" assistance.

Better still, if anyone in public service adheres to a religion, simply decline their "ROTTEN" services.

Consider this our last exchange -- you're clearly incapable of rational, grown-up discussion.

 

[ThinClient]

Ah, yes, the inevitable "I'm not going to talk to you anymore because your icy jabs hit uncomfortably close to home" cop-out.

Came a lot quicker than usual in these kinds of conversations. You must be particularly butt hurt over something I said.

 

[buckshot24]

We should ALL embrace skepticism. In general it prevents us from being overly gullible and being manipulated into doing stupid shit.

Exactly, that is why you should never trust another human being because they might be lying to you.

 

[buckshot24]

Actually, it does matter.

Intentions are everything.

That's why we send people to jail for accidentally killing other people and we hook them up to electrodes and fry their skin off and their eyes heat up and explode and bleed down their cheeks under the power of the current when they premeditate the murder.

If someone does something nice, the "something nice" is a superficial assessment. It's not "nice" if they do it begrudgingly because their god told them they have to. They're still ROTTEN people on the inside and their having done a nice thing is diminished by that inner poison.

Motivations and intentions are everything.

Here's a guy who has no idea what Christianity is.

 

[buckshot24]

Ah, yes, the inevitable "I'm not going to talk to you anymore because your icy jabs hit uncomfortably close to home" cop-out.

Came a lot quicker than usual in these kinds of conversations. You must be particularly butt hurt over something I said.

No, you've said dumb and ignorant things. Why argue with a fool?

 

[sandorski]

No, you've said dumb and ignorant things. Why argue with a fool?

He was rude, but made some points nevertheless.

 

[ThinClient]

Here's a guy who has no idea what Christianity is.

Lol... I was a pastor. 🙂 Suck it.

 

[ThinClient]

Why argue with a fool?

...because you're entertaining to us. 🙂 Remember, YOU are the one that believes in the invisible sky fairy to die for sins belonging to a system that he, himself, created, that we were born into without any say or control over, that condemns us to eternal suffering... because he's a god of LOOOOOVE!!

YOU are the one that believes this shit LOL

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So who's winning? The monkey or the football?

 

[buckshot24]

Lol... I was a pastor. 🙂 Suck it.

I don't care if you were the pope. You're not talking about Christianity.

 

[buckshot24]

...because you're entertaining to us. 🙂 Remember, YOU are the one that believes in the invisible sky fairy to die for sins belonging to a system that he, himself, created, that we were born into without any say or control over, that condemns us to eternal suffering... because he's a god of LOOOOOVE!!

YOU are the one that believes this shit LOL

No I don't believe in that. Once again you've made it obvious that you're talking about something else, "pastor". Why don't you get into your helicopter and fly off into the sunset.

 

[buckshot24]

He was rude, but made some points nevertheless.

A pile of feces with corn in it has something useful in it as well.

 

[buckshot24]

Lol... I was a pastor. 🙂 Suck it.

I think I found you.

 

[sandorski]

A pile of feces with corn in it has something useful in it as well.

yup

 

[shira]

So basically, logic and reason can't do away with the "myth" of God, then, yet, this is the basis of atheists arguements. 🙄

What can make people drop this myth, in your opinion?

Nothing. Most people will always believe in a supernatural "presence." And that's probably a good thing. The full sentiment expressed by Marx says it pretty clearly (bolding is mine):

Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.

Because life for most people is filled with pain and suffering, or the fear of pain and suffering, people need illusions.

 

[ThinClient]

I don't care if you were the pope. You're not talking about Christianity.

Look how defensive you're getting. I am absolutely talking about Christianity but you reject what I type because you have your own agenda.

You can cover your ears and close your eyes and go LALALALALALA until you're blue in the face, but the fact remains that you belong to one of the youngest, most violent religions in history. Your religion preaches the subjugation of women, slavery (including how to properly regulate beating your slaves), genocide, and other stupid bullshit that's right there in the text in your bible.

Your religion is CREATED from other religions. The name Satan, the entire concept of creation, salvation, how it supposedly happened, all of it, can be found piece-mealed together from other religions.

You are what I like to call sheeple. 🙂

 

[ThinClient]

No I don't believe in that. Once again you've made it obvious that you're talking about something else, "pastor". Why don't you get into your helicopter and fly off into the sunset.

Because it's more fun conversing about religions -especially when the conversation involves someone from one of the target religions.

I think I found you.

I'm not logged in. What is this?