Atheists Call 9-11 Memorial Cross "Grossly Offensive"

[buckshot24]

Shrug, a fuckton of what has in the past been considered to be supernatural has been proven to be of natural cause. That is what I was talking about and you know it, I don't mind you playing semantics but I will call you on it.

Hell, I'll even let you have this point. The supernatural has never been proven but 99% of what has been considered supernatural has been proven not to be. Happy?

I'm not sure why you should let me have the point as it's pretty straight forward.

Even if a supernatural event happened. Let's say God poofed an apple into existence when nobody was looking science would never be able to conclude that God did it.

 

[buckshot24]

Typical "you hurt my feelings, boo hoo!" card; when pure logic gets crushed and you have nothing else to fall back on.

Even though you won't see this. You have to admit that TC is a pretty big douche bag.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Even though you won't see this. You have to admit that TC is a pretty big douche bag.

As much as any pompous Christian d-bag I've ever been around. which has been plenty. What's your point?

 

[JD50]

No, it isn't a problem....I just like to see some honesty. Religious people aren't ashamed and aren't coy about trying to bring people over to Jesus, and I respect honesty, and if they believe this, they should preach about it.

Atheists need to practice this same honesty. So what if you're out to educate people about the fairy tales of religion and pull them from it.... we already know this -- atheists don't seem to, though.

That's not preaching any more than a math teacher is preaching about calculus.

 

[Retro Rob]

That's not preaching any more than a math teacher is preaching about calculus.

It is preaching. Throughout this thread, there is certainty about the falseness of religion -- how can you be sure about how false religion is?

You really cannot be, so it becomes a faith, and books written about religion (negatively) is preaching.

You've staunchly denied this, which means you're probably woefully ignorant of what preaching is.

 

[Darwin333]

Sigh...

Rocks do not need to have the ability to do something for them to lack it. I perfectly agree that this is incoherent and that is why the definition fails.

So yes, a rock lacks a heartbeat and if you define something dead. Saying they lack a heartbeat, I agree, is ridiculous but nobody is trying to define death as something that "lacks a heartbeat". The absurdities arise because of the "lack of belief" definition of atheism.

Well, the rocks lack faith too. Since they lack faith in god would you argue that they believe that god doesn't exist? You don't get to use one of the qualities without including the others.

Sure, if you're trying to define a rock as something hard then you have a point but nobody is trying to do that.

Until today I have never encountered anyone who tried to define a rock as something that did or did not have faith either. So whats your point?

As you theists like to say, atheists have a belief system and they truly believe that god doesn't exist, which in my case is false but lets go with it. Rocks don't have faith in a creator either so is it your position that rocks have an actual belief system that god does not exist? If not then not only is your current point completely moot but so is your point of "atheists have some sort of divine belief because they don't believe in the divine".

You really have nowhere to go from here with this particular point but I am looking forward to seeing you try.

 

[Darwin333]

It is preaching. Throughout this thread, there is certainty about the falseness of religion -- how can you be sure about how false religion is?

You really cannot be, so it becomes a faith, and books written about religion (negatively) is preaching.

You've staunchly denied this, which means you're probably woefully ignorant of what preaching is.

What exactly is the difference between preaching and discussing? Furthermore, what is required for the topic to be considered "preaching"? 100 people believing in the thing that is being refuted? 1,000? Just 1?

I once met a guy that believed bugs, particularly grasshoppers, were gods. Was I "preaching" to him when I said I couldn't possibly believe that without some huge proof? What about polytheism? There are a few Wiccans in my area that I know, when they discuss all of their gods with me and I state that I don't buy it and give the reasons, am I preaching?

I don't mind what your answer is either way. If you want to consider what I am doing, which I personally consider having a civilized debate on an internet forum in which all active participants must actively engage in the discussion/debate, as preaching thats fine with me. There are tons of definitions that you and I will never agree on but I do know that at the end of the day your a good guy. Thats the most important part of the discussion imo.

 

[Darwin333]

Basically, I took your post as not denying your "preaching", but I took it as simply denying the goal of "converting".

Shrug, your opinion of what I am doing will not change, just like your faith. If you want to think that I am preaching that is your opinion and your choice. With that said, I personally don't think that I am preaching because I know for a fact that I won't change a theists mind, I won't "recruit" someone to the dark side. In my mind that is the entire goal of preaching, to recruit people to your line of thinking.

OTOH, I dunno...... "Preacher" could be popular with the ladies, so maybe I'll run with that title now that its been given to me

 

[Retro Rob]

What exactly is the difference between preaching and discussing? Furthermore, what is required for the topic to be considered "preaching"? 100 people believing in the thing that is being refuted? 1,000? Just 1?

I once met a guy that believed bugs, particularly grasshoppers, were gods. Was I "preaching" to him when I said I couldn't possibly believe that without some huge proof? What about polytheism? There are a few Wiccans in my area that I know, when they discuss all of their gods with me and I state that I don't buy it and give the reasons, am I preaching?

I don't mind what your answer is either way. If you want to consider what I am doing, which I personally consider having a civilized debate on an internet forum in which all active participants must actively engage in the discussion/debate, as preaching thats fine with me. There are tons of definitions that you and I will never agree on but I do know that at the end of the day your a good guy. Thats the most important part of the discussion imo.

I've defined preaching as taking the initiative to share your view or opinion....even if its not wanted.

Some here like to narrowly define it as only talking about faith-based topics like God and religion. Preaching is simply the act of spreading your message , as it were.

We,re discussing because we're directly communicating.

 

[Darwin333]

I feel the same way about you all -- I am not interested in "changing your minds" because that means I'd have to somehow attempt to force you to.

That isn't a option... it's not my job to change your mind no more than it is a teacher's to force you to learn math.

You're still OK in my book.

Oh don't get me started on math!!

Lol, I really push math to my kids because it is, imho, the most likely skill to give you an advantage in the workforce by far. Everyone I know that is successful is really good at math so I harp on them just a bit more than other subjects. Completely unrelated to this topic though, lol. And for the record you will always be a good guy in my book (barring something really unexpected).

I don't actually judge you based on your religious beliefs but if you engage me in a debate I will debate it all day long with you. Maybe thats preaching and maybe it isn't, I will cede that point anyway you wish but the exact inverse gets to be true

 

[sandorski]

 

[buckshot24]

Well, the rocks lack faith too. Since they lack faith in god would you argue that they believe that god doesn't exist? You don't get to use one of the qualities without including the others.

You're entirely missing the point. Currently, I'm not even talking about a replacement definition to the "lack faith in God" version. All I'm doing is using rocks to show the absurdity of it. So this line of reasoning has nothing to do with getting to a "believes that God doesn't exist" definition.

Until today I have never encountered anyone who tried to define a rock as something that did or did not have faith either. So whats your point?

That the "lack faith in God" definition is a bad one. That is all there is to it. I know rocks don't have faith or beliefs. Would you prefer I use a pencil?:awe:

As you theists like to say, atheists have a belief system and they truly believe that god doesn't exist, which in my case is false but lets go with it. Rocks don't have faith in a creator either so is it your position that rocks have an actual belief system that god does not exist? If not then not only is your current point completely moot but so is your point of "atheists have some sort of divine belief because they don't believe in the divine".

Rocks have no beliefs so no, they do not have that belief. Whether you have a belief system or not isn't relevant to the definition of the word. My point is and has only ever been that the "lack of belief" definition for atheism is inadequate.

You really have nowhere to go from here with this particular point but I am looking forward to seeing you try.

I'm glad you're at least getting some enjoyment out of this. :biggrin:

 

[Paul98]

You're entirely missing the point. Currently, I'm not even talking about a replacement definition to the "lack faith in God" version. All I'm doing is using rocks to show the absurdity of it. So this line of reasoning has nothing to do with getting to a "believes that God doesn't exist" definition.
That the "lack faith in God" definition is a bad one. That is all there is to it. I know rocks don't have faith or beliefs. Would you prefer I use a pencil?:awe:
Rocks have no beliefs so no, they do not have that belief. Whether you have a belief system or not isn't relevant to the definition of the word. My point is and has only ever been that the "lack of belief" definition for atheism is inadequate.
I'm glad you're at least getting some enjoyment out of this. :biggrin:

For the love of god drop this, no one is talking about rocks they are saying people who lack belief in god are atheists.

 

[buckshot24]

Jesus didn't die for atheists.:awe:

(actually he did but Calvinists would disagree)

 

[OverVolt]

For the love of god drop this, no one is talking about rocks they are saying people who lack belief in god are atheists.

Rocks don't have beliefs either. Therefore atheists are about as spiritual as a rock?

Pretty logical yeah?

 

[ThinClient]

Even though you won't see this. You have to admit that TC is a pretty big douche bag.

That doesn't sound very christ-like of you. ()

 

[buckshot24]

For the love of god drop this, no one is talking about rocks they are saying people who lack belief in god are atheists.

Do you think Terri Schiavo was an atheist?

 

[buckshot24]

My blood pressure has stabilized since blocking TC. I highly recommend it.

 

[ThinClient]

My blood pressure has stabilized since blocking TC. I highly recommend it.

Haha, what an asshole. :awe: He's just mad that someone challenged his faith and he fell flat on his face and feels like a dumbass.

 

[ThinClient]

Do you think Terri Schiavo was an atheist?

Objection. Conjecture.

 

[buckshot24]

This message is hidden because ThinClient is on your ignore list.

This may be one of your finest posts of your short career here at AT. Bravo sir, bravo.

 

[shadow9d9]

It is preaching. Throughout this thread, there is certainty about the falseness of religion -- how can you be sure about how false religion is?

You really cannot be, so it becomes a faith, and books written about religion (negatively) is preaching.

You've staunchly denied this, which means you're probably woefully ignorant of what preaching is.

When there is zero evidence of something, you don't need faith... You need to be shown a shred of proof to even consider it. That is how people with a brain work...

 

[monovillage]

How many atheists have knocked on your door and tried to convert you?

We are having a rather civil discussion/debate here in a forum that is meant for debate. If you don't like the topic you don't click on it and you are not inconvenienced by it at all. OTOH, I have had a lot of people knock on my door and in my futile attempt to not be rude wasted quite a bit of my time. I would not equate "not answering my door" to "not clicking on a thread on an internet forum", would you?

I am actually sort of enjoying the debate yet I understand that I will not convert anyone and that isn't my goal. I personally think the best way to "create" more atheists is to simple encourage people to read the bible, its how I got there.

I like the topic, I enjoy the peevishness of atheists when they try to deny that there's a spits worth of difference between their belief system and other peoples religious belief system. That coupled with the fact that they're out in public and in every forum desperately telling anyone that will listen all about it.

Originally Posted by Darwin333:
I would personally like to see more atheists..........

\

 

[MagickMan]

I like the topic, I enjoy the peevishness of atheists when they try to deny that there's a spits worth of difference between their belief system and other peoples religious belief system. That coupled with the fact that they're out in public and in every forum desperately telling anyone that will listen all about it.

There are atheists and anti-theists. The vocal, abusive ones are the latter, and they're just as annoying and dogmatic as any evangelical.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I like the topic, I enjoy the peevishness of atheists when they try to deny that there's a spits worth of difference between their belief system and other peoples religious belief system. That coupled with the fact that they're out in public and in every forum desperately telling anyone that will listen all about it.

I've never seen an Atheist in public telling anyone about their non-belief....and definitely not desperately.

I have been "witnessed" to many times by believers of different types of Christianity. It's such a turn off. Not to mention all the money put into advertising, buying ads on highways, etc...

Christianity is everywhere, all day, thrown in your face. Sinner! don't wait! convert today to one of the many sects of Christianity. Don't listen to those other Christians, they're wrong, OUR Christianity is right!!

It's all about personal convictions. To thine own self be true.

Unfortunately, Christians don't like it when there's competition. "oh oh, you're just touting a different religion, see your no different than us so that makes us right". oh yea, there's some logic for ya. not that anyone expects anything different from Religiously influenced sheep in general.