Atheist files suit to remove "In God we trust" from money....

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: scrawnypaleguy
The Constitution does not mention the "separation of church and state", it merely states that there is no national religion. Read the Constitution. The whole idea of the separation of church and state comes from a series of letters written by Thomas Jefferson.

I understand the plight of the atheist and/or other religions, because it does seem unfair that one "God" is mentioned on money and others aren't, but it's not hurting anything so let it go already.

It most certainly DOES hurt. I've posted a near complete chronology of what I've gone through in my life over these issues, and I'm certainly not alone. What you REALLY meant to say (like most Americans) is that it hasn't so far directly affected YOU that you've noticed, so you don't want to have to think about anything.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: broon
When are people going to realize seperation of church and state is only meant to keep the government from telling you how to worship? It dosn't mean the government can't recognize a god. It also doesn't mean the god it's referring to is the Christian God. Give it a rest. The country was founded on religion.

No, actually it wasn't. And that myth has been so completely debunked on here 50,000 times that anyone not accepting it is doing so purposefully, not out of lack of material or exposure.

And because it was, as you claim, debunked on AT means it's true?

No, the fact that it's true makes it true. The fact that it's posted so much on AT and you still refute it merely calls into quesiton your motives, intelligence and/or sanity. 😎

 

[MisterJackson]

Man, everyone in this thread missed that fact that Mosh practically begged me to fly out and make her scream "In God We Trust!".

To Mosh, I'm afraid I can't accomodate you. Your begging makes you seem desperate, and that's such a turn off.



j/k.....I'm only trying to lighten up this thread.

 

[Lothar1974]

There are just way to many people with too much time on their hands. I am so sick of people complaining about insignificant crap like THIS issue. WHO CARES!! Does it really F*cking make your life so bad you cannot go on? If so kill your stupid self and save us from hearing you complain! How about all these people suing! I have never seen such stupid law suits in my life, it's these people who are making the US a bad place! Any way, if people would stop complaining about crap like what this guy is and actually do something that might help people or be productive maybe this world would be be a better place. If this ofends anyone, sorry and get over it!

 

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: Kipper

Originally posted by: HumblePie
HAHA, you guys amuse me.

First off, sorry Mosh but I have to say this, the line doesn't add anything to history. IF you want history go read a textbook. Reading that line on a coin or bill doesn't do anything for history at all.


Second, to the people saying "most" religions have only one god. LOLOLOLOLOLOL


You can't be serious right? Christinaity has MULTIPLE gods and religious icons. There is THE GOD and there is Jesus. Look 2 gods! Technically, Mary is ALSO a female god or goddess and any good theologian will tell you that as well. Why? You can't give birth to a god or a son of god and remain a mere mortal. For such religious zealots out there and very few have any understanding or actually read their own text. They take what's spoonfed to them at a Sunday Ceremony as dogma. Blah. Read, learn, interpret, take a class, ask a real theologian who isn't interested in "preaching" but learning how their religion and the religions of others all fit together in this world. You might learn a thing or two.

For the record. Most religions have MUTLIPLE gods. The capitalization of the word god to God on the currency is singling out a few sects of religions from others. Only a few actually use the name God as a name, hence needing that capitaization. The rest of the religions do not do this. Basically, Jewish, Mormon and Christianity uses God. Everyone else has another name for their god(s). Oh, and muslims use Alah.


That being said, the guy that is fighting this is a loon to a certain degree, but being a loon doesn't mean he's not wrong in this case. Hell, a broken clock is right twice a day. Why does a person have to be of perfect and impeccable character to fight against the wrongs of the world? Actually, does such a person exist? I doubt it so who cares what his views are on OTHER TOPICS. This is the one under dicussion and the microscope. Does he make a valid case? Yes. Should those words be removed? Yes. End of discussion.

A quick comment on your statements about Christianity - although I'm not religious in any sense of the word and know very little about Christianity, if you knew anything about this religion you'd understand that there is only one "God" - and Christ is the same thing, and so is the Holy Spirit - they are all one and the same yet distinct: the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. I don't quite understand it myself, but that somehow circumvents the problem of multiple gods.

Moreover, with respect to Mary I would say she falls into somewhat the same camp as the Catholic saints, who are prayed to just like "God" but are not deities in their own right...so you still have one deity, with some other spiritual figures, if you want to call them that, loosely, on the side.

Maybe I'm hitting off the mark entirely and this is all semantics.

Incorrect. In Christianity there are multiple gods but only one is named God. Look up the definition of what a god is please. It means an idolized, worshipped, supernatural being that is attributed or associated with certain powers and transcends mortality. Look at for example Greek gods. They have multiple ones but usually to be associated with a specific item. Venus for love, Mars for war. Despite that, they were all gods. The Christian have one SUPREME god called God. They has have many many many many other gods, although most won't call them that. Any real Catholic or Christian theologian will tell you the truth. Angels by definition are gods for example, but they aren't God. Satan is a god as another example. A god who fights against God and in today's society is associated and attributed with all things evil. However, he is still a god. Same with Jesus. Seiously, don't spout off crap about religion until you've actually studied it. Here, let me give you a good reading list to start with 😛

the bible, all testaments including those funny mormon ones
the toran
St. Augustine
St Constantine


Those are for starters. Constatine is like 1500 pages last time I read it LOL!

 

[broon]

HumblePie, actually Kipper had it right. Christians believe in the trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost...Jesus=God. They are one in the same. Jews believe in God and God only. Islam also has only one God, referred to as Allah but it's the same as the Jewish and Christian God. I don't know why you keep throwing Mormons in there.

 

[JackBurton]

I hope he wins. 🙂

How about we change the slogan to:

"Money"

No need for God, or I love peanut butter, or any other crap.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
and what about the Declaration of Independence having a capital C for the word "Creator"? No one has a beef with that yet?

The Declaration of Independence was written before the Constitution and is not a legal document.

it may not be the foundation for our government, no.

it's just the foundation of this country's very existence, and the constitution too.

All the Declaration of Independence ever was is a written statement to the King of England on why a specific group of people were rebelling against his rule. The only reason that it is relevant is because many of the same people that signed it also worked on the constitution. The thing to remember is that people signed the Declaration of Independence with having to agree to everything in it, but only agree to it?s core statement, which is basically ?Were mad as hell, and we are not going to take it anymore!? Now go have a field day with that phraseology coming from an atheist.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: broon
HumblePie, actually Kipper had it right. Christians believe in the trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost...Jesus=God. They are one in the same. Jews believe in God and God only. Islam also has only one God, referred to as Allah but it's the same as the Jewish and Christian God. I don't know why you keep throwing Mormons in there.

You didn't read his entire post? Going by the definition of the word "god," there would be multiple gods. Yes, only one "God" with a "G," but that's a proper name, rather than a classification. You're not speaking in the same terms as he is, you're considering it in the religious aspect, whereas he's approaching it from a theological aspect.
And mormons are christians too, that's why he keeps grouping them together.

 

[kitkat22]

You know we all use credit/debit cards anyway. I can name a few people who don't even use cash anymore. I personally couldn't care less. I don't mind it there and if it wasn't, I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Last time I checked church building are private property.

 

[JLGatsby]

"The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

--John Adams, Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, January 3rd, 1797.

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
You didn't read his entire post? Going by the definition of the word "god," there would be multiple gods. Yes, only one "God" with a "G," but that's a proper name, rather than a classification. You're not speaking in the same terms as he is, you're considering it in the religious aspect, whereas he's approaching it from a theological aspect.
And mormons are christians too, that's why he keeps grouping them together.

I did read the post and he was not correct. There are not multiple gods in Christianity. Angel != god. Satan != god.

Mormons do not represent Christianity. They have Christian beliefs but are not considered to be representative of Christianity like Catholics/Baptists/Methodists/Lutherans/Episciples/etc.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
You didn't read his entire post? Going by the definition of the word "god," there would be multiple gods. Yes, only one "God" with a "G," but that's a proper name, rather than a classification. You're not speaking in the same terms as he is, you're considering it in the religious aspect, whereas he's approaching it from a theological aspect.
And mormons are christians too, that's why he keeps grouping them together.

I did read the post and he was not correct. There are not multiple gods in Christianity. Angel != god. Satan != god.

Mormons do not represent Christianity. They have Christian beliefs but are not considered to be representative of Christianity like Catholics/Baptists/Methodists/Lutherans/Episciples/etc.

Every word you said is wrong. That amuses me.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Michael Newdow is an attention whore, and a a moron. It's just some words on money for christ sakes! Why waste time and money over it? :thumbsdown:

"They came for the Communists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Communist;
They came for the Socialists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Socialist;
They came for the labor leaders, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a labor leader;
They came for the Jews, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Jew;
Then they came for me - And there was no one left to object."

- Martin Niemoller

 

[shilala]

I not only would like it to stay, but I'd like to see it tatooed on every atot'ers forehead.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Lothar1974
There are just way to many people with too much time on their hands. I am so sick of people complaining about insignificant crap like THIS issue. WHO CARES!! Does it really F*cking make your life so bad you cannot go on? If so kill your stupid self and save us from hearing you complain! How about all these people suing! I have never seen such stupid law suits in my life, it's these people who are making the US a bad place! Any way, if people would stop complaining about crap like what this guy is and actually do something that might help people or be productive maybe this world would be be a better place. If this ofends anyone, sorry and get over it!

Why are these people so stupid and wrong, but the people that campaigned to get it added aren't? As long as you'll speak out EXACTLY as strongly against those trying to integrate religion into society as those that want it out, I'll give your words merit. Otherwise, you're nothing but another bigot. So which is it?

 

[mercanucaribe]

Who thinks Jesus would want "In God We Trust" written on money?


They showed Jesus a gold piece and said to him: Caesar's men demand tribute from us. He said to them: What belongs to Caesar, give to Caesar; what belongs to God, give to God; and what is mine, give it to me.

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
i support him 100%

QFT
though I don't understand the removal of god from churches... Since when was church a public place? It's only "public" because they hope to "convert you"...

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: Kipper

Originally posted by: broon
When are people going to realize seperation of church and state is only meant to keep the government from telling you how to worship? It dosn't mean the government can't recognize a god. It also doesn't mean the god it's referring to is the Christian God. Give it a rest. The country was founded on religion.

Tell me, what exactly is the word "God" with a capital 'G' intended to stand-in for, then?

If the government recognizes a god (or God), which one is it and what does it do? You're trying to skirt around the issue by saying "well, 'God' could be any god" when it is clearly and explicitly a reference to the Judeo-Christian god - a SPECIFIC deity.

Winnnar!

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: goku

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
i support him 100%

QFT
though I don't understand the removal of god from churches... Since when was church a public place? It's only "public" because they hope to "convert you"...

Where did this come from? There is nothing about churches in the article!

 

[HumblePie]

Broon, seriously you are DEAD WRONG. When you take 4 years of theology at a Catholic College, St. Mary's and Regis for me, then come back and try to argue theology with me. Your not worth wasting time over because it's obvious to me, and everyone else reading this that you have zero knowledge on the subject at hand. I've read more, studied more, been to various churches including catholic, buddist, muslim, jewish, and mormon. My grandmother is a stout baptoist on my dad's side and my mom was raised Episcopalian. My mom converted to Jewish. My aunt's and uncles are DEVOUT, to the letter of the word devout Catholics. I attended a Catholic college and finished with a Christian one. I did 5 years in the boyscouts with a complete MORMON troup. The scout master was mormon and so was everyone in it except me technically. One of my best friends for years with my to play on my soccer team was from Taiwan and a devout Buddist.

Seriously, I've been exposed to religions that most here never will be. I've read more religious books then I can to recite. All were approached with a seeking of knowledge from a theology and educational standpoint. If anything though, I'd consider myself a Deist in terms of my religious preference.

Still I will say this, the word God denotes on god of the Jewish, Christian, Mormon, and secular breaks up of each for as one of thier gods. It refers to the supreme god named God for those religions. It should not be on money handed out by the government. Why does this effect my life? Really, in a direct impactful way, it does not. Unless you count these silly debates on the internet over such things. In an indirect way? Easy, it turns people from other religions off. If some religions are listed then religions should be listed. The government should not pick and choose. America is not a "Bible" based country. It was never intended to be.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Jzero
How about:
"In Gods Some Of Us Trust"

That's even better. I like! :beer:

Or "In Gods Some of Us Trust Occasionally". 😉

Let's just replace it with a more continutional motto, like:

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

That's neither religion nor anti-religious, since most religions are based on the premise anyway. For Christians, it would probably be best to remove God off something that represents greed anyway.

Yeah always i thought that compared to "E pluribus unum" the in good we trust is a cheesy wannabe.

 

[EKKC]

lighten up, so what, you want the presidents to stop saying "god bless america"

to what? "may an omnipotent or divine being or beings bless america?"

i'm an atheist and i don't believe religion should have a plce in the government, but this guy is an idiot with too much time on his hands. it's only a phrase and its not like that they're forcing the religion on everyone, what, kids can't believe in buddism or islam if they say "under god" in the pledge of allegiance? and if you dont believe in god you wanna stop using american currency? what's he afraid of?

 

[PowerEngineer]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: broon
Majority rules in a republic. The majority of religions recognize the same God.

When your view point is destroyed, you fall on your safety line. Well then it must make you uncomfortable that times are changing.

Times aren't changing. My point of view isn't destroyed. I'm very comfortable thank you.

I find the thought of you smugly taking comfort in your (at least perceived) membership in some religious majority a bit revolting. Being in a majority does NOT make you right. This country has a Constitution that is supposed to protect individuals from the "tearany of the majority" you seem to embrace.

I'll do my part to see if we can convert your majority into a minority. Intellectual consistency would require you to agree it's okay for the new majority to change the motto to: "IN GOD WE DO NOT TRUST", or maybe: "IN ALLAH WE TRUST". I'm guessing you'd become a passionate supporter of minority rights instead.

This too shall pass.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Jzero
How about:
"In Gods Some Of Us Trust"

That's even better. I like! :beer:

Or "In Gods Some of Us Trust Occasionally". 😉

Let's just replace it with a more continutional motto, like:

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

That's neither religion nor anti-religious, since most religions are based on the premise anyway. For Christians, it would probably be best to remove God off something that represents greed anyway.

what a great idea, i wonder if the powers to be would go for that?