Atheism in a year

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Gurck
No, you accused me of trolling because it takes the focus off you - someone who revived a dead thread to cite some ancient folktale as fact and evidence of the existence of the christian god (thereby inferring that all other gods are false). Looks to me like a pretty strong case for trolling

What you say doesn't make sense. I'm trying to take the focus off me?
This is YOUR thread.

How is something that happened in the early 1900's be considered an "ancient folk story?" There are many investigations into this story and a handful of books, as well as other documents. Before you open your mouth about it, maybe you should actually read up on it a bit. That way you can bring forth a more sincere and sophisticated argument.

You should actually look for evidence and do some more research before starting a thread like this. I know that may actually call for you to read a book or two, so good luck.

Yes, you're trying to take the focus off of your trolling. Had you read & followed the thread, you'd see that in addition to an invite for discussion, this was also in response to a bible quoting thread & an experiment to see if people who had no problem with said bible thread would call me a troll. Most did. I'll leave the connection between christianity and hypocrisy for you to make...

Would you care to link to video footage of the story of fatima? A book or two on it would make for a boring day or two, I've no need to put up with some pompous ass "author" twisting facts, highlighting some while ignoring others, etc, all in order to sell books to people who insist they saw Elvis at a local gas station.

Where is all the other evidence, btw? I mean, coming from a side which insists at every opportunity that evolution is "still only a theory!", I'd expect something a bit more solid than a single story which, much like the ones in the bible, has been retold so much over the course of so much time that it has turned into an impossible folktale.

There are books out there dealing with the "pro" and the "con." I've read both and came to a conclusion. You're a better man than me, obviously, because you were able to come to your conclusion without reading either.

I'm sorry, but if you want to find evidence of God, it will take more than 5 minutes of your time, you cannot just click on a link to a picture or a video. It's not that easy.

BTW, I believe in evolution, it's does not conflict with my understanding of God.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: bamacre
There are books out there dealing with the "pro" and the "con." I've read both and came to a conclusion. You're a better man than me, obviously, because you were able to come to your conclusion without reading either.

Aw shucks, thanks Don't be so hard on yourself though, I'm sure if I started talking about a big invisible dude you'd dismiss me as crazy rather than reading about it as well

I'm sorry, but if you want to find evidence of God, it will take more than 5 minutes of your time, you cannot just click on a link to a picture or a video. It's not that easy.

Why?

BTW, I believe in evolution, it's does not conflict with my understanding of God.

Agreed that the two beliefs aren't mutually exclusive, however why believe one old wives' tale while dismissing another? I'm referring, of course, to you holding up Fatima like the holy grail of belief while turning a blind eye to the bible's assertation that we're here not through evolution, but through creation.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Gurck
Aw shucks, thanks Don't be so hard on yourself though, I'm sure if I started talking about a big invisible dude you'd dismiss me as crazy rather than reading about it as well

Who said He's invisible?
You are right, if you started talking about your invisible friend, I'd think you were a little flaky. However, if you and 2 billion others start talking about this invisible friend, I'd probably find my way to a library.

Why?

I don't know, that's an old, and unfortunately, unanswered question. But I will ask this, how can you expect to learn about something as complex as God in 10 minutes? Have you ever learned a programming language? Or a foreign language?

Agreed that the two beliefs aren't mutually exclusive, however why believe one old wives' tale while dismissing another? I'm referring, of course, to you holding up Fatima like the holy grail of belief while turning a blind eye to the bible's assertation that we're here not through evolution, but through creation.

Good question. First off, parts of the Bible have been rewritten. In my opinion, a lot of the Bible is something that one can learn a lot from, however, I can admit to you that I don't necessarily believe everything in the Bible, and frankly I question some of the assertions.
I was brought up Catholic, but some of my beliefs now may not define me as it.

Another thing about the Bible, is that it was written so that men 5000 years ago could understand it. Men that thought the earth was flat. God is more complex than a motherboard. Try writing a manual for a mobo in a way that men who lived 5000 years ago could understand it. Maybe we were told what we needed to know, not the truth. I believe that God is the mother of all science, his "engine" per say, so science to me is not threatening.

I don't want to sit here and type too much, but I believe man has twisted the concept of religion, and caused others, maybe like yourself, to be turned off by it as an effect. It has been used as a weapon too many times. When some people think about religion, they think of wars, segregational hatred, bigotry, etc. It's being used by Osama bin Laden, GWB, it's been used in Sudan, all over, and all throughout time, as a weapon, a way of leading a herd. There's a reason for that, it's the most powerful weapon. And in today's world of nuclear submarines, jet fighters, and even human bombs, these political leaders need a powerful weapon. And it's still tried and true. And it's a weapon that shoots bullets and money all at the same time. Like fire, free will is needed to survive, but it kills, vicously.

But I imagine it didn't start that way. I mean, it's like you said earlier, "I'm sure if I started talking about a big invisible dude you'd dismiss me as crazy." So, maybe you can understand me when I say the idea, the creation of the longest running scam in history wasn't started by one man. Couldn't have happened that way. One, even world leader, couldn't convince a whole people.

You need to stop looking at Christianity, or even religion through their "followers." If I told you I were a black man (btw, I'm white), would you refer to me as an African-American? No, you'd see my skin is white. So when someone like GWB calls himself a Christian, why would you refer to him as so? Is he following the ways of Christ?

You should read up on the Fatima. It was a huge event, it helped change history, especially Portugal's. It was something that happened on 6 different, prophesized, occassions. Some who refused to believe the story set out to debunk it. Those men died, or are today, believers. To properly describe what happened would take more time than I desire to write. Snag a few books and "waste" a couple of days. I mean, if you're sure of yourself now, you'll be even more sure after you have tried and failed. Those morons that try to debunk evolution at least read up on it first.

 

[meltdown75]

Just wanted to check in quick and add that this is a good thread; I've read through it and I'm glad we can debate on the issue without getting too crazy.

It is apparent we are as a race are still struggling in some aspects with the notion of God. It is just nice to have an outlet to chat about it, imho.

For my final essay in a course I took about 7-8 years ago in school, I attempted to convince my prof that faith was an actual element in the universe, much like oxygen. My theory was that it was dwindling in modern times, almost dissipating if you will, so that man was more easily tempted and more apt to become of the mindset that he himself knows best and needs no guidance or affirmation of a higher being. I think I got a B on the paper or something, I'm sure the prof thought it was an interesting concept albeit a struggling one. It was my attempt at unification of the two worlds of religion and science .

Just chatting here, no real point to this post. Bottom line: good thread Gurck -- it does take balls to post an atheism thread in the face of many resident religious folk of all walks. I'm enjoying it.

 

[asm0deus]

the evidence of god is found in the heart and in the mind, if it's not evident in yours, im sorry for you.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: asm0deus
the evidence of god is found in the heart and in the mind, if it's not evident in yours, im sorry for you.

perfect example of condescending mindless religious babble of those who think they talk to god.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: asm0deus
the evidence of god is found in the heart and in the mind, if it's not evident in yours, im sorry for you.

perfect example of condescending mindless religious babble of those who think they talk to god.

Yep, also a good indicator of belief's genetic nature; things we 'feel' are often pre-programmed. Other similar traits which have proven to be evolutionarily advantageous are the innate fear of spiders and snakes that many people have, our preference for fatty/salty/sugary foods, and our inclination toward learning a language, the last being so important it has a section of the brain devoted to it.

 

[asm0deus]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: asm0deus
the evidence of god is found in the heart and in the mind, if it's not evident in yours, im sorry for you.

perfect example of condescending mindless religious babble of those who think they talk to god.

Yep, also a good indicator of belief's genetic nature; things we 'feel' are often pre-programmed. Other similar traits which have proven to be evolutionarily advantageous are the innate fear of spiders and snakes that many people have, our preference for fatty/salty/sugary foods, and our inclination toward learning a language, the last being so important it has a section of the brain devoted to it.

try using science to measure love or imagination. why doesn't it work? because the instruments of science are not absolute. love and imagination on the other hand.. potentially are. science cannot perceive everything, you can explain away faith, love, imagination using complex terms but that doesn't change their supernatural characteristics, it mostly just exposes the laziness and shortsightedness of your searching.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: asm0deus

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: asm0deus
the evidence of god is found in the heart and in the mind, if it's not evident in yours, im sorry for you.

perfect example of condescending mindless religious babble of those who think they talk to god.

Yep, also a good indicator of belief's genetic nature; things we 'feel' are often pre-programmed. Other similar traits which have proven to be evolutionarily advantageous are the innate fear of spiders and snakes that many people have, our preference for fatty/salty/sugary foods, and our inclination toward learning a language, the last being so important it has a section of the brain devoted to it.

try using science to measure love or imagination. why doesn't it work? because the instruments of science are not absolute. love and imagination on the other hand.. potentially are. science cannot perceive everything, you can explain away faith, love, imagination using complex terms but that doesn't change their supernatural characteristics, it mostly just exposes the laziness and shortsightedness of your searching.

Same way people felt about a lot of things in the past. Science came around & will continue to. In the meanwhile though, keep thinking you're better than me for believing & explain the unexplainable with god - the humor does me a lot of good

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: asm0deus

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: asm0deus
the evidence of god is found in the heart and in the mind, if it's not evident in yours, im sorry for you.

perfect example of condescending mindless religious babble of those who think they talk to god.

Yep, also a good indicator of belief's genetic nature; things we 'feel' are often pre-programmed. Other similar traits which have proven to be evolutionarily advantageous are the innate fear of spiders and snakes that many people have, our preference for fatty/salty/sugary foods, and our inclination toward learning a language, the last being so important it has a section of the brain devoted to it.

try using science to measure love or imagination. why doesn't it work? because the instruments of science are not absolute. love and imagination on the other hand.. potentially are. science cannot perceive everything, you can explain away faith, love, imagination using complex terms but that doesn't change their supernatural characteristics, it mostly just exposes the laziness and shortsightedness of your searching.

Same way people felt about a lot of things in the past. Science came around & will continue to. In the meanwhile though, keep thinking you're better than me for believing & explain the unexplainable with god - the humor does me a lot of good

Where did he say that he thought he was better than you?

You tend to make a lot of assumptions.

 

[asm0deus]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: asm0deus

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: asm0deus
the evidence of god is found in the heart and in the mind, if it's not evident in yours, im sorry for you.

perfect example of condescending mindless religious babble of those who think they talk to god.

Yep, also a good indicator of belief's genetic nature; things we 'feel' are often pre-programmed. Other similar traits which have proven to be evolutionarily advantageous are the innate fear of spiders and snakes that many people have, our preference for fatty/salty/sugary foods, and our inclination toward learning a language, the last being so important it has a section of the brain devoted to it.

try using science to measure love or imagination. why doesn't it work? because the instruments of science are not absolute. love and imagination on the other hand.. potentially are. science cannot perceive everything, you can explain away faith, love, imagination using complex terms but that doesn't change their supernatural characteristics, it mostly just exposes the laziness and shortsightedness of your searching.

Same way people felt about a lot of things in the past. Science came around & will continue to. In the meanwhile though, keep thinking you're better than me for believing & explain the unexplainable with god - the humor does me a lot of good

i agree, explaining god is like explaining the unexplainable. it takes an eternity to express an infinity. i've studied as many of the worlds religions as i've had to time to. I actually appreciate buddhism more than the rest and they dont even believe in a creator god per se. but they do allow room for beings of that magnitude, do you not have enough room in your universe for a higher power? if you subtracted all reality you cannot touch you'd be left with very little reality. science just extends the touch, telescopes the eye and amplifies the ear. the spirit originates them. it causes the eye to want to see, the ear to hear, the skin to touch.

science reveals the conservation of matter, spirit reveals the conservation of souls.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Where did he say that he thought he was better than you?
You tend to make a lot of assumptions.

Now you're really grasping at straws, cool

Originally posted by: asm0deus
i agree, explaining god is like explaining the unexplainable. it takes an eternity to express an infinity. i've studied as many of the worlds religions as i've had to time to. I actually appreciate buddhism more than the rest and they dont even believe in a creator god per se. but they do allow room for beings of that magnitude, do you not have enough room in your universe for a higher power? if you subtracted all reality you cannot touch you'd be left with very little reality. science just extends the touch, telescopes the eye and amplifies the ear. the spirit originates them. it causes the eye to want to see, the ear to hear, the skin to touch.
science reveals the conservation of matter, spirit reveals the conservation of souls.

Do you write for Hallmark or something? What purpose did that serve other than to stroke your own ego? How many years did you waste studying the nonexistant?

At the heart of this is that while most believe there is a god and have their belief go unchallenged (even by themselves), the belief in the converse - that there isn't one - gets people called all kinds of neat names This double standard, followed yet unseen by everyone, really is sad... it says so much about human stupidity.

 

[meltdown75]

.

 

[asm0deus]

At the heart of this is that while most believe there is a god and have their belief go unchallenged (even by themselves), the belief in the converse - that there isn't one - gets people called all kinds of neat names This double standard, followed yet unseen by everyone, really is sad... it says so much about human stupidity.

that is the searching and studying i mentioned, i challenge it everyday and many days i give up, and leave it as it was. most certainly it is more foolish to not search, and to not study. like i said it's a revelation of your laziness, to just say 'i don't feel it' everyday. i'd rather be on the other side, where i try to feel it and to understand it, and sometimes i actually do. I actually see why things are the way they are, and the science of it fits perfectly into the spirituality of it. at least i am trying, at least my words hold the weight of attempt at it rather than the weight of contempt of it. but i dont know how you weigh your words, i keep my words close to my heart, perhaps your words have never seen your heart. good luck with that

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: asm0deus

At the heart of this is that while most believe there is a god and have their belief go unchallenged (even by themselves), the belief in the converse - that there isn't one - gets people called all kinds of neat names This double standard, followed yet unseen by everyone, really is sad... it says so much about human stupidity.

that is the searching and studying i mentioned, i challenge it everyday and many days i give up, and leave it as it was. most certainly it is more foolish to not search, and to not study. like i said it's a revelation of your laziness, to just say 'i don't feel it' everyday. i'd rather be on the other side, where i try to feel it and to understand it, and sometimes i actually do. I actually see why things are the way they are, and the science of it fits perfectly into the spirituality of it. at least i am trying, at least my words hold the weight of attempt at it rather than the weight of contempt of it. but i dont know how you weigh your words, i keep my words close to my heart, perhaps your words have never seen your heart. good luck with that

Lol, cute. Personally I see how it's all a farce & what it has done for us, both good & bad. I see why it may indeed have been necessary at a certain point, or at least necessary for us to have advanced as quickly as we did. But that's beside the point really.

You essentially paraphrased your earlier post, doing an excellent job of maintaining the condescending tone I might add. After I called you on it :laugh: Some people are truly hopeless.

 

[squirrel dog]

eat me.

 

[meltdown75]

Maybe this thread sucks after all. I just can't decide! :laugh:

One thing is for sure though - this has been debated by philosophers and theologians 2378246 times more intelligent than we, yet I seem to be the only one in need of outside material.

Everyone else knows everything already, so...

 

[ComatoseDelirium]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Why does religion prevail? I think every needs something to believe in. Whether its the Biblical God, math, shoelaces or jellybeans. Everybody needs to have faith. Without faith, life is empty. So why attack religion if it hasn't done anything bad to you? Why try to convince people God doesn't exist? Just let them have faith in something.

I'm sure the OP has faith is SOMETHING. Everybody does.

He has faith in that he will die one day and cease to exist. Pretty depressing if you ask me.

Your a moron.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: ComatoseDelirium
Your a moron.

You just pwn3d yourself.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: Gurck
One of the biggest problems facing religion's credibility is the complete lack of evidence supporting the existence of a deity or deities. For the past ten millenia or so religion has been the central focus of most cultures, and yet we haven't a shred of evidence supporting anything supernatural (though evidence does support certain mundane things such as Jesus having existed). Interestingly, roughly ten millenia ago also marks the beginning of widespread agriculture; a far different way of life for us than our hunter-gatherer ancestors had lived previously.

The obvious question is why people would believe in the existence of their god(s) of choice, given the complete lack of supporting evidence. If we hypothesize that it's been passed down, why do those passing it down believe in it?

Like all living organisms, we compete for limited resources. Cooperating for mutual benefit requires a leap of faith; there's no guarantee that giving up something currently will lead to greater future rewards. This is the basis of society though; modern humans give up free time and direct control over many aspects of their lives in order to reap the greater benefits of living in a society. Look back to agriculture and you see a similarity; a farmer sacrifices hunting/gathering for the growing season to instead maintain his crop & help it to grow, reaping greater overall benefit, not to mention the next ~6 months off, or at least with less hunting & gathering to do, more time to ponder & place more importance on his existence, perhaps make up stories about it?

This is the tip of the iceberg, of course, I'd write more but I'd rather discuss it if it comes up and tbh I'd probably have closed the window without having posted anything within 30 seconds if I didn't somehow manage to click post :|

Thoughts? Flames from the hypocrites who hate this but are fine with christian dogma being spewed in OT?

Well your thesis lacks any evidence to support it. In fact, there are lots of instances of evidence supporting the belief in God, all across the world. There has been a scientific study on prayer which shows there is a part of the brain only activated through prayer.

The biggest issue with people like yourself is you never look for the evidence so assume it doesn't exist.

Lets see some of your evidence. You must be the supposed Jesus' long-forgotten brother.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: asm0deus

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: asm0deus

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: asm0deus
the evidence of god is found in the heart and in the mind, if it's not evident in yours, im sorry for you.

perfect example of condescending mindless religious babble of those who think they talk to god.

Yep, also a good indicator of belief's genetic nature; things we 'feel' are often pre-programmed. Other similar traits which have proven to be evolutionarily advantageous are the innate fear of spiders and snakes that many people have, our preference for fatty/salty/sugary foods, and our inclination toward learning a language, the last being so important it has a section of the brain devoted to it.

try using science to measure love or imagination. why doesn't it work? because the instruments of science are not absolute. love and imagination on the other hand.. potentially are. science cannot perceive everything, you can explain away faith, love, imagination using complex terms but that doesn't change their supernatural characteristics, it mostly just exposes the laziness and shortsightedness of your searching.

Same way people felt about a lot of things in the past. Science came around & will continue to. In the meanwhile though, keep thinking you're better than me for believing & explain the unexplainable with god - the humor does me a lot of good

i agree, explaining god is like explaining the unexplainable. it takes an eternity to express an infinity. i've studied as many of the worlds religions as i've had to time to. I actually appreciate buddhism more than the rest and they dont even believe in a creator god per se. but they do allow room for beings of that magnitude, do you not have enough room in your universe for a higher power? if you subtracted all reality you cannot touch you'd be left with very little reality. science just extends the touch, telescopes the eye and amplifies the ear. the spirit originates them. it causes the eye to want to see, the ear to hear, the skin to touch.

science reveals the conservation of matter, spirit reveals the conservation of souls.

spirit is jackshit.

 

[boxoreds]

Originally posted by: asm0deus

At the heart of this is that while most believe there is a god and have their belief go unchallenged (even by themselves), the belief in the converse - that there isn't one - gets people called all kinds of neat names This double standard, followed yet unseen by everyone, really is sad... it says so much about human stupidity.

that is the searching and studying i mentioned, i challenge it everyday and many days i give up, and leave it as it was. most certainly it is more foolish to not search, and to not study. like i said it's a revelation of your laziness, to just say 'i don't feel it' everyday. i'd rather be on the other side, where i try to feel it and to understand it, and sometimes i actually do. I actually see why things are the way they are, and the science of it fits perfectly into the spirituality of it. at least i am trying, at least my words hold the weight of attempt at it rather than the weight of contempt of it. but i dont know how you weigh your words, i keep my words close to my heart, perhaps your words have never seen your heart. good luck with that

I think the religions are slowly learning they will eventually be out of a job.

The heart is like god. Man though the heart was the center of his soul. Later, by studying it, man figured out the heart is a simply a muscle which pumps blood through the body. Yet some still use the heart as a spiritual object. Sooner or later man will, with science, figure out that what we call god is really just nature and all of its laws.

I guess after that you could say, "who made these laws?" It wasn't a conscious being, that's for sure.

 

[bbqbread]

the only proof today that people can get is if satan decides to reveal himself in our generation.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: bbqbread
the only proof today that people can get is if satan decides to reveal himself in our generation.

Given a unified Satan that attempts to defy God is an invention completely separate from Christianity's holy books...I have a strange feeling that evidence will pass us by.

 

[asm0deus]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: asm0deus

At the heart of this is that while most believe there is a god and have their belief go unchallenged (even by themselves), the belief in the converse - that there isn't one - gets people called all kinds of neat names This double standard, followed yet unseen by everyone, really is sad... it says so much about human stupidity.

that is the searching and studying i mentioned, i challenge it everyday and many days i give up, and leave it as it was. most certainly it is more foolish to not search, and to not study. like i said it's a revelation of your laziness, to just say 'i don't feel it' everyday. i'd rather be on the other side, where i try to feel it and to understand it, and sometimes i actually do. I actually see why things are the way they are, and the science of it fits perfectly into the spirituality of it. at least i am trying, at least my words hold the weight of attempt at it rather than the weight of contempt of it. but i dont know how you weigh your words, i keep my words close to my heart, perhaps your words have never seen your heart. good luck with that

Lol, cute. Personally I see how it's all a farce & what it has done for us, both good & bad. I see why it may indeed have been necessary at a certain point, or at least necessary for us to have advanced as quickly as we did. But that's beside the point really.

You essentially paraphrased your earlier post, doing an excellent job of maintaining the condescending tone I might add. After I called you on it :laugh: Some people are truly hopeless.

it really is easier to critique others than it is to post something original of your own isn't it? another revelation of your laziness i suppose. though i've already predicted the end to those series of revelations, atheism takes alot less than a year to figure out... :laugh: