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AT World of Warcraft Thread (Mists, Where do you play, General BS and all that)
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Phoenix86
Lifer
My understanding is you want haste as arcane since it make RoP tick faster. Like I said earlier, I could maintain 6 stacks almost indefinitely and stay ~80% mana. If I went mastery I'd have to reset stacks more frequently and I think that's why haste trumps mastery. About the bombs, spec shouldn't matter, NT for single, LvB for 2-4 FB for 5+ unless something changed.
I wish EJ had mage threads other than the fire mage one. Seems like they just don't care anymore, none of the MoP threads for any class seem to be very useful.
I was just going by Noxxic, which generally was pretty accurate, and that's the stat priority they gave. I can see their reasoning, though increasing the tick speed of RoP would make sense too. I know the 3039 haste means an extra tick of living bomb, but if we're not using it, doesn't do much good?
Truthfully after playing it for that little while on the dummy, I don't really care anymore. If I have to raid as arcane to be competitive / useful, I'm not raiding. As long as frost is somewhere in the ballpark I'll be using that until I can legitimately go back to fire.
I was just going by Noxxic, which generally was pretty accurate, and that's the stat priority they gave. I can see their reasoning, though increasing the tick speed of RoP would make sense too. I know the 3039 haste means an extra tick of living bomb, but if we're not using it, doesn't do much good?
Truthfully after playing it for that little while on the dummy, I don't really care anymore. If I have to raid as arcane to be competitive / useful, I'm not raiding. As long as frost is somewhere in the ballpark I'll be using that until I can legitimately go back to fire.
tHa ShIzNiT
Platinum Member
Interesting, I didnt know haste made RoP tick faster. From what I'm reading, haste or mastery stacking with Arcane are both producing similar numbers. Last night I did LFR as arcane, stacking mastery. I was able to maintain 6 stacks for a long time in a lot of cases. I ended up topping the charts in LFR for a couple fights (those which you could turret) and did absolutely abysmally on some other fights (Lei Shi - there are just too many breaks in the action on that fight, I wasnt able to build up and maintain stacks).
I believe I topped the meter on Zor'lok - I just stood on my rune through pretty much all of the damaging things. Attenuation I just let it hit me, force and verve I put up ice barrier and got a few heals while i stood in the same place (instead of going under the shields). Next boss, I believe I was on top there as well. Then for garalon I switched to fire due to the high amount of movement...I ended up #1 there as well. Also was #1 on sha of fear as arcane. You basically dont need to move at all on that fight...as long as the rest of the dps do what you're supposed to be doing. (you have to kill adds...I didnt, just sat on the boss)
Also on tsulong I became extremely frustrated with arcane because a lot of little adds spawn and you cant build stacks because they die too fast. I could have gone and AOE'd them but they are all over the place and I wouldnt have my rune...so basically during that night phase I did nothing but stand on my rune and watch other people kill adds.
Tonight is my actual raid night. I'm going to switch my main spec from fire to frost, and have arcane as my off spec. Gonna reforge full haste for frost, and then have that for arcane as well since it works well there.
Arcane's damage was pretty darn good when you can stand still, but overall it was very underwhelming and leaves you feeling like you're stuck in a cage. I'm hoping I will enjoy frost tonight.
I believe I topped the meter on Zor'lok - I just stood on my rune through pretty much all of the damaging things. Attenuation I just let it hit me, force and verve I put up ice barrier and got a few heals while i stood in the same place (instead of going under the shields). Next boss, I believe I was on top there as well. Then for garalon I switched to fire due to the high amount of movement...I ended up #1 there as well. Also was #1 on sha of fear as arcane. You basically dont need to move at all on that fight...as long as the rest of the dps do what you're supposed to be doing. (you have to kill adds...I didnt, just sat on the boss)
Also on tsulong I became extremely frustrated with arcane because a lot of little adds spawn and you cant build stacks because they die too fast. I could have gone and AOE'd them but they are all over the place and I wouldnt have my rune...so basically during that night phase I did nothing but stand on my rune and watch other people kill adds.
Tonight is my actual raid night. I'm going to switch my main spec from fire to frost, and have arcane as my off spec. Gonna reforge full haste for frost, and then have that for arcane as well since it works well there.
Arcane's damage was pretty darn good when you can stand still, but overall it was very underwhelming and leaves you feeling like you're stuck in a cage. I'm hoping I will enjoy frost tonight.
I didn't either. A lot of stuff is blocked at work, so I can't even research :\
Let me know what you find out on the haste v mastery bit for arcane.
This is the problem with arcane. Any movement pretty much kills the spec. And being stuck in a cage......I agree, it's just not an active spec.
I was surprised at how active frost actually was. NT procs brain freeze a lot, and using your WE's freeze on CD adds an extra ice lance every 25 seconds. It wasn't too bad, you'll probably enjoy it.
Phoenix86
Lifer
There are several extremely bad designs with arcane.
You can't move very much, it makes the rest of the raid pick up your slack (adds on sha of fear is a great example, standing in attenuation, etc). It makes you pick between being an intentionally bad raider or doing bad damage.
Rotation is boring as fuckall. Stand in RoP, keep bomb up, AB spam oh wait missiles proc'd.
This means you have 1 instant every 12 seconds, so your extremely turret spec. RoP doubles this.
Compare this to frost which is VERY busy. NT procs BF a lot, sometimes back to back to back. FoF procs from freeze/FB/orb. Lots of CDs to manage: bomb/orb/evocate/IV/freeze all with different timers.
The upside to stacking haste is you can switch between frost/arc. The downside is fire is still strong on cleave fights.
You can't move very much, it makes the rest of the raid pick up your slack (adds on sha of fear is a great example, standing in attenuation, etc). It makes you pick between being an intentionally bad raider or doing bad damage.
Rotation is boring as fuckall. Stand in RoP, keep bomb up, AB spam oh wait missiles proc'd.
This means you have 1 instant every 12 seconds, so your extremely turret spec. RoP doubles this.
Compare this to frost which is VERY busy. NT procs BF a lot, sometimes back to back to back. FoF procs from freeze/FB/orb. Lots of CDs to manage: bomb/orb/evocate/IV/freeze all with different timers.
The upside to stacking haste is you can switch between frost/arc. The downside is fire is still strong on cleave fights.
Phoenix86
Lifer
http://www.icy-veins.com/arcane-mage-wow-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities
In Mists of Pandaria, your mana regeneration is fixed at 15,000 mana every 5 seconds (30,000 is you stand in your
Rune of Power). This is increased by your haste. For example, if you have 10% haste, you regenerate 10% more mana.
On a side note, I understand the author of the mechanics behind SimC (Lhivera green poster in the mage forums) admits it's out of date. There's literally no good place to get a definitive answer on haste vs mastery, It'll take a few weeks of top end mages posting parses.
In Mists of Pandaria, your mana regeneration is fixed at 15,000 mana every 5 seconds (30,000 is you stand in your
On a side note, I understand the author of the mechanics behind SimC (Lhivera green poster in the mage forums) admits it's out of date. There's literally no good place to get a definitive answer on haste vs mastery, It'll take a few weeks of top end mages posting parses.
tHa ShIzNiT
Platinum Member
raiding as both frost and arcane tonight. I hate both.
tHa ShIzNiT
Platinum Member
wow, i'm almost the lowest dps in my guild now. we brought an alt and he did less than me. I topped one fight as arcane and that was it. was near the bottom on most others. I am not sure what to do at this point...clearly i'm not playing these specs to their fullest extent but even when i wasnt making mistakes my damage was extremely underwhelming
wow that was crazy...they just ruined this game for me. i'm gonna go back to fire now and see what happens...if its as bad as people are saying im going to have to switch to my dk
wow that was crazy...they just ruined this game for me. i'm gonna go back to fire now and see what happens...if its as bad as people are saying im going to have to switch to my dk
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Phoenix86
Lifer
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10N/all/7/60/default/#5fvnn
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10H/all/7/60/default/#5fvnn
Fire dps numbers are rolling in, it's as bad as I thought. I have never seen a dip like this before. 1st/2nd to 2nd to last in normal, those with better gear (heroic) didn't see as big a nerf since they have more base crit.
Frost would be ok, if it's number weren't pathetic. Only reason to try it seems to be add control.
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10H/all/7/60/default/#5fvnn
Fire dps numbers are rolling in, it's as bad as I thought. I have never seen a dip like this before. 1st/2nd to 2nd to last in normal, those with better gear (heroic) didn't see as big a nerf since they have more base crit.
Frost would be ok, if it's number weren't pathetic. Only reason to try it seems to be add control.
tHa ShIzNiT
Platinum Member
I dont know of any other spec that requires a certain ilvl to not be worthless. I feel like you just cant do this in a game, but its been done. Its so hard to believe at this point. Nerfed to worthlessness. My fresh 90 dk has more utility to a raid I feel. His dps is about 10k less and he brings other valuable things like a battle rez. Insane.
Hacp
Lifer
I believe you are QQing about nothing really. In fact, mages have it better than many classes, yet you guys were shouting as if the world was ending! I'll give you some numbers to compare.
10N- Mage 66k, Range:60-71k
10H- Mage 89k, Range:81-96k
25N- Mage 74k, Range:70-78k
25H- Mage 98k, Range:89-124k
In terms of class here are mage rankings out of 11 classes.
10N-4th
10H-5th
25N-8th
25H-7th
From these numbers, it looks like the new best spec is Arcane, and mages are in the middle of the pack in terms of dps. So to sum it all up, mages are not ruined. They are not last in dps, they are middle of the pack.
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We're shouting as if the world was ending because fire is the only spec a lot of mages consider to be any sort of fun. Yeah it sucks that in my 483 gear I lost 15-18k dps single target. That's not what bothers me most, I'm not in a hardcore progression guild. What I care about is spamming 30+ seconds of fireball and not getting a crit in order to be able to actually USE my other abilities.
Isn't fun the point of a video game? There's nothing fun about that.
I did Terrace and HoF-1 in LFR last night as frost/arcane depending on the fight. The terrace I got put in was already 2/4, but even on Lei Shi I managed ~68k dps (#1). On Sha of Fear, I played turret and ignored the adds to see what I could pull on turret fights, was at ~87k until I got pulled to the next-to-laste platform. Finished the fight at ~82k (#1 by 15k). Granted, it was with the usual LFR baddies, but still.
The HoF-1 run had a frost mage that was 100k+ on every fight, but was in something like 491-492 ilvl, all haste gear. I couldn't catch him as either frost or arcane, I tried both, but I'm only at avg ilvl 483, a lot of which is still hit/crit or crit/mastery and just reforged crit-->haste. There was also a shadow priest at the same ilvl that was 88k+ every fight, obviously #2. I was #3 every time at a hair under 75k.
Arcane isn't as bad as I was making it out to be, provided you can stand still and stay in your RoP. I generally tried to stay at 6 stacks as long as possible, making sure that anytime I was 90%+ mana I used an AB so if I got another AM proc I could channel it without capping mana at 100% during the cast.
So it's not that our damage is terrible, it's actually pretty decent still as long as you spec frost/arcane. It's just that the not-fire specs are incredibly boring.
Hacp
Lifer
Hmm so I've been an inscriptor for a few days and I have to say that it does make money. I typically buy herbs on the AH for 40 gold, mill them, and sell the inks at 50% profit on the ah. They move really fast.
Only problem I have with the profession is the time required to make inks! It takes forever. I'll see what glyphs are like for selling.
Only problem I have with the profession is the time required to make inks! It takes forever. I'll see what glyphs are like for selling.
Hopefully glyphs work out better for you than they do on my server. I tried it once while leveling inscription on my monk -- stuck to glyphs that are recommended by Noxxic / Icy Veins, or could actually be considered useful. There's too many players in the market on my server for me to waste my time on it.
I had ~30 glyphs that took me 3+ weeks of relists and undercuts before I was able to sell them all. Eventually I got annoyed and just listed all of them for a flat 25g while they were otherwise listed for 60+. It still took me a few days of that to be able to move them.
Hacp
Lifer
Yep, I listed around 100 glyphs on the AH, ones I made while lvling for the price I crafted them at. About 33% sold, the other's didn't over 2 days. I'll dabble in the market, but it seems like I already make quite a bit from milling herbs so I might just stick to what works for me.
I made about 100k gold via selling DMF cards this expansion, but the profits seem to have fallen out since the herb nerf (herb costs have doubled on my server, but cards are flat or dropping in price as DMF trinkets become less desirable)
Hacp
Lifer
Not too interested in selling DMF cards i need my scrolls for myself. Just looking for something I can shuffle on the AH for easy gold.
Hacp
Lifer
It really depends on the server you're in for the market. I'm on a high pop server, so there are established AH players out there trying to play the market. The trick is to find out what market they're playing, farm those mats, then oversupply the crap out of them before they leave. Usually, you make out with quite a bit of gold before they realize that you've figured them out and they won't be able to buy out your stuff and relist higher without facing alot of risk.
This.
As people get more alts to 90, it's not going to get any better as they'll then have characters to plant enigma seeds to supply their own golden lotus. I seem to get between 4-7/day per character.
I've been watching the main player on my server, I'll usually list golden lotus about 30-35g below what he's listing flasks for, list the golden lotus in 20 stacks and he snatches them up in no time. I'd rather sell in bulk like that for slightly less profit than sit and try relisting/undercutting on actual flasks for that little extra gold.
Slacker
Diamond Member
Seriously? Hey guys there's people doing a bad thing and I took advantage of it but I really think people in charge need to stop them from doing a bad thing
Hacp
Lifer
Of course I took advantage of it. Someone else would have bought it up and done the same thing. Do you think all the blood spirits on the AH are legit? They're all duped and people buy them up for 1.2k. Everyone is affected by this, and chances are, you or your guildies are beneficiaries of this whenever you buy cheap herbs from the AH (botting) or cheap mats from any place. Just because some people benefit from it does not mean they don't want it to stop, because in the long run, it will screw over the game.
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