AT or MT?

[KIAman]

As I said, I consider the primary benefit of a manual to be that it's more fun to drive. In terms of pure speed on a track, an automatic/SMG/DCG is likely to be faster and eliminates the risk of a missed or botched shift, and hence is probably preferable from a sheer performance perspective.

I take exception to the idea that one can only enjoy a manual transmission during one's daily commute. I really enjoy driving my 330i and it's a blast to take on a weekend drive on winding country roads. That, not on my commute, is where the manual really shines. You seem to be taking the view that cars are only used as either mundane daily transportation, or as trackday tools, with nothing in between. That certainly isn't my experience, and honestly it strikes me as odd that someone with that perspective would bother to drive a BMW.

I also covered this in my post you quoted. If I had a weekend car, it would be a small, sporty, fun manual. Not as my daily driver, which you agree above.

And your second comparison on "mundane daily" vs "trackday tools" I covered as well. Most people will never track their cars so what are they left with?

Finally, I also own an 06 330i but with every option except radar cruise. I only drive it M-F when I commute to work and back. It is quiet, comfortable and powerful enough to satisfy my boring daily commute. As for weekends, I have a family and I often take wife a kids out in the minivan, not in my tiny 3 series.

 

[yh125d]

Sheesh how did this get so long


I have a mundane, slow DD with a manual that I never track, and still prefer MT, even in traffic

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I also covered this in my post you quoted. If I had a weekend car, it would be a small, sporty, fun manual. Not as my daily driver, which you agree above.

And your second comparison on "mundane daily" vs "trackday tools" I covered as well. Most people will never track their cars so what are they left with?

Finally, I also own an 06 330i but with every option except radar cruise. I only drive it M-F when I commute to work and back. It is quiet, comfortable and powerful enough to satisfy my boring daily commute. As for weekends, I have a family and I often take wife a kids out in the minivan, not in my tiny 3 series.

What a strange conversation. Again, I don't think your notion that a car can only be fun on weekends correlates with my own experience or that of most other people. To me that's the inherent charm of a 3 series - it's a reasonably comfortable and practical commuter, while still being great fun to drive on country roads and even on a track (I've driven mine 120 MPH, while cornering, on a track, actually). To me the stick makes my car far more fun to drive in all conditions, but particularly in recreational driving situations, so I don't feel the need for a second car (though I have toyed with buying a Porsche 996 or an E46 M3 as a more dedicated track tool). Obviously I don't agree with you or your philosophy, which I find odd, so I'm not sure why you'd say I do.

 

[Jzero]

In my humble opinion, a manual is wasted on a non-sports-car daily driver. The VAST majority of people will NEVER track their cars and the benefits of a manual can't be realized on public roads, ever.

It seems like a lot of small-displacement econoboxes that are underpowered mated to AT are adequate (or even pretty spritely) on MT. You can maximize use of the power, less parasitic loss, in some cases the gearing is more aggressive.

 

[KIAman]

What a strange conversation. Again, I don't think your notion that a car can only be fun on weekends correlates with my own experience or that of most other people. To me that's the inherent charm of a 3 series - it's a reasonably comfortable and practical commuter, while still being great fun to drive on country roads and even on a track (I've driven mine 120 MPH, while cornering, on a track, actually). To me the stick makes my car far more fun to drive in all conditions, but particularly in recreational driving situations, so I don't feel the need for a second car (though I have toyed with buying a Porsche 996 or an E46 M3 as a more dedicated track tool). Obviously I don't agree with you or your philosophy, which I find odd, so I'm not sure why you'd say I do.

I think we are both missing each other's points. I'm not asserting you agree with my opinion on automatics vs manuals. I am asserting that most people use their car as a simple tool to get from point A to point B and could care less about the "fun" factor of a manual (in the USA). For you, it's 1 car for all situations. For me, I'll take specialization for each individual situation. 1 for DD, 1 for weekend/track, 1 for family.

 

[LTC8K6]

With an automatic, you give it gas and it decides to either
A: accelerate in gear
B: downshift, and then accelerate in that gear

Wait a minute....You have a large input into what it does by how quickly you move the throttle, how far you move the throttle, and whether or not you lift the throttle afterwards, etc.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

hehe I see all these MT driver still have their superiority complex going. I myself started with MT, but have been driving AT the last 10 years. So I get 5.6s in my 335i from 0 to 60 instead of 5.4s, am I gonna lose any sleep over it? heck no.

Plus MT doesn't always beat AT given the same car, that's only true if you have a good MT drivers who knows exactly when to shift and can do it quickly. Those 4.8s MT 335i 0~60 time are achieved by highly skilled drivers and I'd bet 95% of MT drivers won't beat my AT with their bad timing and slow footwork.

Finally, if I really want to "drive" it and hear the engine, I can always switch to the manual mode on my steptronic.

obviously someone who tried to learn driving stick for 5 mins and failed hard because no one who enjoys driving stick quotes 0-60 times as the primary reason for enjoying it.

again: driving stick has NOTHING to do with speed, fuel efficiency, track times, being a better driver, etc.

 

[simonizor]

Automatic.

If you ever plan on eating, or answering the phone, or looking at a map, or anything in your car.... you can't do it with one hand on the wheel and one hand on the shifter.

Sure you can, you just have to be coordinated enough to do it. People that think that it's hard to shift while doing things have obviously never driven a manual before, or they didn't take the time to become good at it. Once you're used to it, it's like second nature. I don't even think about it most of the time; I just hear my engine getting to the point where it needs to go to the next gear and I shift.

obviously someone who tried to learn driving stick for 5 mins and failed hard because no one who enjoys driving stick quotes 0-60 times as the primary reason for enjoying it.

again: driving stick has NOTHING to do with speed, fuel efficiency, track times, being a better driver, etc.

Are you stupid? It has a lot to do with ALL of those things!!!! Especially being a better driver. Do you see many bad drivers driving a manual? Why do you think that is? Could it possibly be because they can't handle doing two things at once? Or could it just be because they can't figure out how to get the car to move without having it jump all over the place?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Do you see many bad drivers driving a manual?

All the time.

Why do you think that is?

Because they learned everything they know about driving from "2Fast 2Furious" and believe that they have to drive like maniacs to compensate for failing to make the grade in other areas.

Sorry kiddo, but being able to drive a manual transmission doesn't make you a good driver and being unable to drive one doesn't make you a bad driver.

ZV

 

[zerocool84]

This thread makes me laugh but hey if you think you're cooler for driving stick then go right ahead. I'm sure you'll be putting 20" wheels on your Civic cus it makes you cooler as well.

 

[exdeath]

This thread makes me laugh but hey if you think you're cooler for driving stick then go right ahead. I'm sure you'll be putting 20" wheels on your Civic cus it makes you cooler as well.

Don't forget the vacuum/boost gauge that never goes above 0 and the A/F LED sweep gauge that is causing epilepsy with the stock o2 sensor.

 

[Bignate603]

Are you stupid? It has a lot to do with ALL of those things!!!! Especially being a better driver. Do you see many bad drivers driving a manual? Why do you think that is? Could it possibly be because they can't handle doing two things at once? Or could it just be because they can't figure out how to get the car to move without having it jump all over the place?

Driving a stick shift doesn't make you a better driver and I see plenty of people that are terrible drivers that are driving stick shifts. There are plenty of people that think they are amazing behind the wheel but really are quite a bit more dangerous than your average driver. That kind of person often prefers driving a stick shift because they're a real driver and a manual transmission is some sort of badge of courage to them.

Sure you can, you just have to be coordinated enough to do it. People that think that it's hard to shift while doing things have obviously never driven a manual before, or they didn't take the time to become good at it. Once you're used to it, it's like second nature. I don't even think about it most of the time; I just hear my engine getting to the point where it needs to go to the next gear and I shift.

So you're supposed to take both hands off the wheel when you're talking on the phone and need to shift? This has nothing to do with being used to it and knowing when to shift, it's about needing one hand on the wheel and one to shift. Sure you can hold a drink and drive with your palm but if you think that's as safe as having a hand really on the wheel you are horribly confused.

 

[Bignate603]

Don't forget the vacuum/boost gauge that never goes above 0!

Or dual exhaust with only one side connected to anything.

 

[LTC8K6]

Or exhaust tips that aren't connected to anything...no wait...

 

[TehMac]

I'd like to take a moment to apologize, partially because I feel I have been misunderstood, and partially because I can accept the fact that I am a huge asshole sometimes on the internet.

My most prominent apology goes to zerocool and some other bloke, but I would like to point out that most of my comments were in self jest prompted by my stress and frustration dealing with a few things, not least of which is my own car.

So, I apologize, I'd just like to move forward, and yes, shitty drivers come in all colors, no question about it.


Cheers all,
Mac

 

[Modular]

I'm not about to read this whole damn thread as all that matters is this: a man must always know how to drive a manual trans.

Take that as you may, but you sure as hell should learn to drive a manual even if that's not what you buy.

 

[LTC8K6]

Manuals seem to be disappearing from the U.S.

 

[TehMac]

Manuals seem to be disappearing from the U.S.

So does freedom.

 

[pcgeek11]

So does freedom.

Thanks Obama and Dems

 

[zerocool84]

Thanks Obama and Dems

Yea cus previous 8yr leader brought us so much more freedom 🙄

 

[Throckmorton]

Wow. People blame Obama for EVERYTHING, even automatic transmissions

 

[obamanation]

Yea cus previous 8yr leader brought us so much more freedom 🙄

Replacing one form of "evil" with another form of "evil" isn't any better.. Obama is "evil" because he knows that by passing an entitlement program, the government will be able to expand its reach, getting an ever growing stranglehold on the american people's freedoms.. People are so narrow minded and selfish. The libtards are perfectly fine with people breaking into other people's homes and stealing their shit they worked for but take away their pot and it's a complete and utter outrage, a true trampling of one's freedoms.. the extreme-right (forgot the derogatory term for them) are perfectly fine with the government storming people's homes "24" style in the fight against terrorism without a real warrant but take their guns, their trucks and nascar and it's a horrible violation of their rights..

Fact of the matter is, both sides suck and it's the people's fault that it has gotten this way.. The problem isn't the fact that it's Right vs. left, the problem is both the right and left agree on one thing, making the other side do what it wants with total disregard to how it affects those people. I don't see enough libertarians, all I see are authoritarians on the left and right.. Bill Maher makes fun of the tea-party because they call obama hitler.. Fine he isn't Hilter, he's Stalin... does that make it any fucking better dickwad? Hilter and Stalin are the exact same shit except one's extreme right and one's extreme left..

The automatic transmission has taken over because people are so used to letting others take control of their lives because they consider themselves fuckups and think someone else is more suited to doing their shit for them.. If you don't want to do anything yourself and just sit back and do nothing, then go smoke a blunt and kill yourself because there is no reason to be alive if you expect everything and everyone to do everything for you.

Manual Transmissions for freedom! 😀

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[sdifox]

I'm not about to read this whole damn thread as all that matters is this: a man must always know how to drive a manual trans.

Take that as you may, but you sure as hell should learn to drive a manual even if that's not what you buy.

Really depends on where you are. Some places there is no manuals whatsoever others it's only stick.

 

[Stefan Payne]

Do you see many bad drivers driving a manual? Why do you think that is?

Hm, I think the worst drivers here don't drive automatic.
As I told earlier I often hear howling engines, due to dumbness (forgot to shift), not need for power...
It's most annoying if that one drives a Diesel...

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Are you stupid? It has a lot to do with ALL of those things!!!! Especially being a better driver. Do you see many bad drivers driving a manual? Why do you think that is? Could it possibly be because they can't handle doing two things at once? Or could it just be because they can't figure out how to get the car to move without having it jump all over the place?

glad to see you get corrected by others before i had to.
there are PLENTY of bad manual drivers. riding clutch, coasting in neutral, not rev matching while downshifting.

please don't tell me because u drive stick, u actually think you're better a better driver than everyone else.